RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender

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thompsonx -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 7:51:11 AM)
quote: quote: thompsonx It looks from here as if the "propaganda war" only exists in your mind. quote: Merc You must not read anything stated by this Administration. However based upon your other comments, reading comprehension isn't your strong point. Here is your original statement here you state that the propaganda war is in your own head. quote: merc: 9/11 did many things. One thing it didn't do was create a propaganda image of the US as coward in the face of an attack. Granted I may be the only one seeing it this way

thompsonx -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 7:53:48 AM)
quote: All the others had the lowest level security status at the time of the attack making comparison irrelevant. You know this from what source? HST.

Mercnbeth -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 7:55:12 AM)
quote: quote: Here is your original statement here you state that the propaganda war is in your own head 9/11 did many things. One thing it didn't do was create a propaganda image of the US as coward in the face of an attack. Granted I may be the only one seeing it this way Your interpretation is noted. Wrong - but noted. Try reading all the words. HINT - the one that starts with 'm'.

tazzygirl -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 7:59:30 AM)
quote: I didn't look. Its obvious. quote: The same one I have for most things - enforce the law. In this case that would mean protecting the assumed sovereignty of the Embassy. I find it much easier than creating rationalizations to fit into daily changing conditions No rationalizations were created. IF you had researched the issue before assuming and posting, you would have found the rationalizations were long in place, with damn good reasons. quote: But again - I'm not the President and this one seems to be following past traditions when it comes to playing games with the lives of those in military service. He thinks its okay to send them to occupy a foreign sovereignty, Afghanistan, under restrictive rules of engagement to act as policemen; but US sovereignty represented by an Embassy isn't worthy of any similar consideration. The "hearts & minds" application of intent yet another moving target rationalized to fit the actions. Yet here you are in this thread complaining that we arent playing with the lives of those close by the embassies, civilians workiing in them and visiting. And again, this is an issue that needed no rationalization because precedent had already been set. In short... you arent president. Yet you criticize every move the man makes, no matter what the move. Complaining that precedent is rationalizing now... but it wasnt in the past... oh wait... you cant recall ever knowing these things happened before. Perhaps the fact that NOT heeding the warnings and advice of others, hunkering down, beefing up security and making a stance only served to end up with dead americans isnt enough of a reason for you.

mnottertail -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 8:02:29 AM)
Merc, We simply have different views then that are irreconcilable (however you spell that word). Didn't you post a bunch of names of soldiers who had died defending embassies earlier? Don't care what the security status of the deaths were. Dead is fuckin dead, and for what? Because of our vital interests in Yemen? Or chest puffery about what martial motherfuckers we are? Or the propaganda coup of alQ? For as long as we remember it? How about us rescuing our ship and crew from the somalis? (I remember the time it took to do it there was some catcalling about appeasement, cowardice and whatnot). Half the motherfuckers reading this are going, WHA????????? thats the attention span and memory of a typical american, we will be outside the window on this one in a couple weeks, pal. Hey, America is bogged down in useless and unwinnable wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, lost the world trade towers, and bankrupted itself with this bigdaddy shit. The talking points and taunts that can be devised about cowardice in Yemen or whatever ain't that big a splash to be worth it. Enough people are coming to Allah to fight our evil empire, that adding that paragraph to the dogma is just gonna put them to sleep. Ron

Mercnbeth -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 8:11:20 AM)
quote: No rationalizations were created. IF you had researched the issue before assuming and posting, you would have found the rationalizations were long in place, with damn good reasons. Every incident is different. Every incident providing unique opportunities to succeed, fail, or not be used at all. I've given my reasons for this one being important. You've given yours why it isn't. quote: Yet you criticize every move the man makes, no matter what the move. Incorrect, when he cut the salaries of the CEO's of the companies he bailed out I applauded his decision. Turns out it got a quicker repayment. When something similar occurs I'll do the same quote: Didn't you post a bunch of names of soldiers who had died defending embassies earlier? No Ron, I posted the names of the soldiers who died when Jimmy Carter sent them in after he didn't secure the embassy in Iran. PS - When, or if, (I suggest reading any of the many sources saying this will happen in some form or fashion soon.) the Administration decides to go into Yemen to put down the next al Qaeda initiative; I'm going to point out that perhaps if we fortified the embassy instead of abandoning it for two days there would be less local Yemenis that al Qaeda could convince to recruit.

thompsonx -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 8:23:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: quote: Here is your original statement here you state that the propaganda war is in your own head 9/11 did many things. One thing it didn't do was create a propaganda image of the US as coward in the face of an attack. Granted I may be the only one seeing it this way Your interpretation is noted. Wrong - but noted. Try reading all the words. HINT - the one that starts with 'm'. So the part that says "Granted I may be the only one seeing it this way" someone else put in your post? HST.

luckydawg -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 10:36:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: Merc: Your assumption is death. My assumption is that a strongly defended embassy wouldn't be attacked. We'll never know. Saigon Beirut Nairobi Kenya Dar and so on over the years. Those were defended fairly strongly and were attacked. What leads you to assume Merc, that THIS time someone would go, 'Hey you dumbasses, we cant attack that;the fuckers defeneded'! People who carry arms against others know that sombodies gonna fuckin die, they are just hoping to christ it aint 'me.' (a valid use of the royal sense of 'me' here, luckydawg). Now, a heavily defended bank in the United States may not be laid siege to simply to avoid the appearance of a social faux paux. (Unless unemployment comes up to 40-50% perhaps) but in any army or military organization in the world (whether ideological or otherwise) mission is far more important then men by a factor of at least 1000. Ron Its rather pathetic you are still upset about that Mnot, but you are indeed still wrong. The Royal we is is used to mean I, refering to the soverign in plural form. Sorry you still don't get that. I must really have gotten under your skin, kind of sad. But you are as you are...

mnottertail -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 10:57:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Its rather pathetic you are still upset about that Mnot, but you are indeed still wrong. The Royal we is is used to mean I, refering to the soverign in plural form. Sorry you still don't get that. I must really have gotten under your skin, kind of sad. But you are as you are... Uckie you little sockpuppet, good to see you. I am not upset at all. You however; providing me with your inane and incorrect english etymology and proper usage perspectives is about like a carpenter ant telling Michaelangelo how to paint. Thank you for proffering your puerile drool. I will give it consideration commensurate with its merit. Try looking up synecdoche in the dictionary; then similar. See if you cannot learn a little something today. Ron

Politesub53 -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 11:41:12 AM)
quote: Polite, You may not have looked at my comments about Bush's waste of the military and resources, but they were made. Okay I can accept i might have missed that. I dont recall you moaning about Bush, hence my comments. As for change, I am not sure what you expected. Bush was probably glad to get out when he did. The economy was a mess, Iraq and Afghanistan were a mess. No easy fix to any of that. Obama may not have any quick fix, but it isnt exactly a mess caused by his policies either. Regards a strongly guarded embassy not being attacked. Where there is a will, there is a way. Look at the Marine barracks in Lebanon, or the attack on the CIA camp last week. Both heavily defended and both attacked. The Yemen Embassy will always be an easy target for rocket attacks, as shown by previous efforts, when mortars hit the building next to it. I think closing it for safety reasons was the better call.

rulemylife -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 11:55:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Every incident is different. Every incident providing unique opportunities to succeed, fail, or not be used..... Because we sure should not reward failure. Wait.................have I heard that somewhere before?

Mercnbeth -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 11:57:06 AM)
quote: Obama may not have any quick fix, but it isnt exactly a mess caused by his policies either. Failure at the executive level is always a combination of prior situations and the inability of the new executive to have any effect to turn around those prior situations. The Administration's biggest problem may have been unrealistic expectations to too many people. For a while now I've seen, and appreciated, all the corners Obama has painted for himself. He could use a 'do-over'; surrounding himself with competency. Finally seeing the replay of yesterday's speech he looked pissed. Having this occur on Sunday It's a tale of shocking ineptitude: CBS 2 has learned a series of missteps unnecessarily added to the mayhem at Newark Liberty International Airport on Sunday. The six-hour delay stranded thousands of people, creating extreme crowding and chaos. The mistakes made at the airport give new meaning to the term "domino effect." It was a cascading series of missteps that cry out for action. The sign at the Transportation Security Administration screening post at Newark read: "Premises Under Constant Video Surveillance." What is should add is: "If We're Lucky." he should be. Coming up on the anniversary of his implementing part two of the Bush Stimulus to this news: As much as $9.5 million in federal stimulus dollars went to 14 zip codes in Virginia that don�t exist or are in other states, Old Dominion Watchdog (http://virginia.watchdog.org) reports. The fake zip codes were listed on Recovery.gov, the federal Web site that is supposed to track how the stimulus money is being used.The phony zip codes are a new wrinkle in Recovery.gov's increasingly tattered credibility. In November, Ed Pound, director of communications for the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board, said a rash of phantom congressional districts found on the website were the result of confusion by fund recipients, who apparently didn't know who their congressman was.But who would give millions of dollars to somebody who doesn't even know their own zip code? His 'Iron Curtain' of "transparency" in the process of the current Health-care Bill debate. Piling on the President or a reflection of the Administration's results? Is one year still not long enough to be responsible for any of this? Edited to add: Off to the airport to find out if I'm on the 'no-fly' list. Have fun! And RML - Does that mean you won't be voting for any of the incumbents too! YEAH - Another convert! Welcome to 'Merc-land'!

Moonhead -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 12:11:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: Polite, You may not have looked at my comments about Bush's waste of the military and resources, but they were made. Okay I can accept i might have missed that. I dont recall you moaning about Bush, hence my comments. As for change, I am not sure what you expected. Bush was probably glad to get out when he did. The economy was a mess, Iraq and Afghanistan were a mess. No easy fix to any of that. Obama may not have any quick fix, but it isnt exactly a mess caused by his policies either. Regards a strongly guarded embassy not being attacked. Where there is a will, there is a way. Look at the Marine barracks in Lebanon, or the attack on the CIA camp last week. Both heavily defended and both attacked. The Yemen Embassy will always be an easy target for rocket attacks, as shown by previous efforts, when mortars hit the building next to it. I think closing it for safety reasons was the better call. There was that business in London in '79 as well.

tazzygirl -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/6/2010 1:33:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Obama may not have any quick fix, but it isnt exactly a mess caused by his policies either. Failure at the executive level is always a combination of prior situations and the inability of the new executive to have any effect to turn around those prior situations. The Administration's biggest problem may have been unrealistic expectations to too many people. For a while now I've seen, and appreciated, all the corners Obama has painted for himself. He could use a 'do-over'; surrounding himself with competency. Finally seeing the replay of yesterday's speech he looked pissed. Having this occur on Sunday It's a tale of shocking ineptitude: CBS 2 has learned a series of missteps unnecessarily added to the mayhem at Newark Liberty International Airport on Sunday. The six-hour delay stranded thousands of people, creating extreme crowding and chaos. The mistakes made at the airport give new meaning to the term "domino effect." It was a cascading series of missteps that cry out for action. The sign at the Transportation Security Administration screening post at Newark read: "Premises Under Constant Video Surveillance." What is should add is: "If We're Lucky." he should be. Coming up on the anniversary of his implementing part two of the Bush Stimulus to this news: As much as $9.5 million in federal stimulus dollars went to 14 zip codes in Virginia that don�t exist or are in other states, Old Dominion Watchdog (http://virginia.watchdog.org) reports. The fake zip codes were listed on Recovery.gov, the federal Web site that is supposed to track how the stimulus money is being used.The phony zip codes are a new wrinkle in Recovery.gov's increasingly tattered credibility. In November, Ed Pound, director of communications for the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board, said a rash of phantom congressional districts found on the website were the result of confusion by fund recipients, who apparently didn't know who their congressman was.But who would give millions of dollars to somebody who doesn't even know their own zip code? His 'Iron Curtain' of "transparency" in the process of the current Health-care Bill debate. Piling on the President or a reflection of the Administration's results? Is one year still not long enough to be responsible for any of this? Edited to add: Off to the airport to find out if I'm on the 'no-fly' list. Have fun! And RML - Does that mean you won't be voting for any of the incumbents too! YEAH - Another convert! Welcome to 'Merc-land'! I dont see his actions of closing the embassy as a failure. You see it as a cowardly act. I see it as a man who is smart enough not to allow testosterone to kill. As far as one year being long enough to be responsible.... hmmm... should anyone accept responsibility for what happened before they take office? I recall the discussions of many CEO's who are now in control of companies who accepted TARP, yet the conversations were quick to point out that some of these people were not in control when the crisis hit. Have it one way, it applies to all.

popeye1250 -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/7/2010 8:19:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Obama may not have any quick fix, but it isnt exactly a mess caused by his policies either. Failure at the executive level is always a combination of prior situations and the inability of the new executive to have any effect to turn around those prior situations. The Administration's biggest problem may have been unrealistic expectations to too many people. For a while now I've seen, and appreciated, all the corners Obama has painted for himself. He could use a 'do-over'; surrounding himself with competency. Finally seeing the replay of yesterday's speech he looked pissed. Having this occur on Sunday It's a tale of shocking ineptitude: CBS 2 has learned a series of missteps unnecessarily added to the mayhem at Newark Liberty International Airport on Sunday. The six-hour delay stranded thousands of people, creating extreme crowding and chaos. The mistakes made at the airport give new meaning to the term "domino effect." It was a cascading series of missteps that cry out for action. The sign at the Transportation Security Administration screening post at Newark read: "Premises Under Constant Video Surveillance." What is should add is: "If We're Lucky." he should be. Coming up on the anniversary of his implementing part two of the Bush Stimulus to this news: As much as $9.5 million in federal stimulus dollars went to 14 zip codes in Virginia that don�t exist or are in other states, Old Dominion Watchdog (http://virginia.watchdog.org) reports. The fake zip codes were listed on Recovery.gov, the federal Web site that is supposed to track how the stimulus money is being used.The phony zip codes are a new wrinkle in Recovery.gov's increasingly tattered credibility. In November, Ed Pound, director of communications for the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board, said a rash of phantom congressional districts found on the website were the result of confusion by fund recipients, who apparently didn't know who their congressman was.But who would give millions of dollars to somebody who doesn't even know their own zip code? His 'Iron Curtain' of "transparency" in the process of the current Health-care Bill debate. Piling on the President or a reflection of the Administration's results? Is one year still not long enough to be responsible for any of this? Edited to add: Off to the airport to find out if I'm on the 'no-fly' list. Have fun! And RML - Does that mean you won't be voting for any of the incumbents too! YEAH - Another convert! Welcome to 'Merc-land'! I dont see his actions of closing the embassy as a failure. You see it as a cowardly act. I see it as a man who is smart enough not to allow testosterone to kill. As far as one year being long enough to be responsible.... hmmm... should anyone accept responsibility for what happened before they take office? I recall the discussions of many CEO's who are now in control of companies who accepted TARP, yet the conversations were quick to point out that some of these people were not in control when the crisis hit. Have it one way, it applies to all. Tazzy, I agree, I think there's a whole bunch of embasseys that we need to close. We could cut the State Dept's budget in half as far as this Taxpayer is concerned. Funny Hillary Clinton saying we need a more "vigorous" foreign policy! Isn't that what's gotten us into the mess we're in? And of course she means by that "more Taxpayer Dollars for MORE foreign aid! Yup, if something doesn't work why let's do MORE of it! When are the TAXPAYERS going to get some relief in this country? We should close half of our embasseys and we'd be much better off for it!

Musicmystery -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/7/2010 8:49:35 AM)
And yet, the rest of the world will still probably be there, even if we don't look.

Moonhead -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/7/2010 10:08:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery And yet, the rest of the world will still probably be there, even if we don't look. Very true. Maybe popeye thinks the money saved on military contractors could be used to build a big wall around the country instead?

mnottertail -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/7/2010 10:51:51 AM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av7xWys6gh4 is this worth dying for, just for 'face' reasons?

philosophy -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/7/2010 12:49:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 We should close half of our embasseys and we'd be much better off for it! ...well, that's debatable. Most US embassies exist to project US influence around the world. Closing the US embassies will just cede that influence to other countries and influence blocs. You think that Russia wouldn't think all their Xmas' had come at once if the USA ceded world influence? You think that China wouldn't be rubbing its hands with glee? The EU would see it for what is is too. A chance for every other power bloc in the world to take away from the USA the priviliged position it now holds. There's no such thing as a free ride Popeye. you know this as well as anyone. What you're suggesting would cost the US dearly. It'd be you, a taxpayer, who'd end up paying the price as trading blocs around the world walk away from the sweetheart deals the US now enjoys. The price for the position the US now enjoys in world affairs is to actually engage in them. Isolationism is, at the very best, a short term measure that'd give some US citizens a bit of a thrill. Oooh look we, the USA, can stand alone. USA, USA! Ten years down the line, as your standard of living drops and your cost of living rises, as your world influence suffers, there'd be many regrets. And don't think that there are any other nations around the world that would support a semi-isolationist stance either. Australia, UK, New Zealand, all the other english speaking nations have no desire for isolationism. They're not that stupid.

mnottertail -> RE: The US Administration: Another Day - Another Surrender (1/7/2010 1:17:10 PM)
Well, China for sure would shit it pants, not rub its hands with glee......they know we got rockets and can run out on our bills to at least the moon if not further. Ron

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