RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance

RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (Full Version)

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Level -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 4:48:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I dislike Passive-Aggressiveness in anyone, male, female, Dom, sub, boss, employee, friend, relative. When you are an upfront person, it is particularly irritating. I like clarity. Same here. I usually confront people who are being passive aggressive directly. "Why are you looking over there and pretending you're not annoyed about this right now?" "Clearly you're trying to get me to have 'this' reaction - I'm not tricked by that, so why don't you just tell me what you're thinking." This doesn't usually go over well :) No, they go into a shitstorm, or plot to fuck you over, when you call them on it. I work for a PA, and with another one, and it's a big pain in the ass, and the office suffers for it. I need to run the place.

sweetboundesire -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 5:02:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyOddsworth To me, topping from the bottom is a much more passive aggressive behavior than dominance. being new to this...what is defined as "topping from the bottom?" is it truly p.a.? is it when a sub challenges her Dom or calls him a jerk? I'm confused about this statement.

Level -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 5:04:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Sunshiny girl. I understand what you are saying. I think that the difference between your honesty and my honesty ends up being, in large part, personality. I tend to be more economical, if you want to use that term. Some would call it brutal, to me it isn't. I am simply answering in the very same way I would want to be answered. I do not want a bunch of beating about the bush and extra words. Just give me the facts. Example: I am with my sister shopping for some new riding jeans and she asks me "Do these make my ass look fat?" It is a simple question that only requires a yes or no... and I will most generally reply with a yes or no. Some people would get upset if they asked that question and I answered with a "yes". Why??? They asked, I answered. Why should I waste time trying to find 20 words to say what one word does? BUT......if they are sensitive to such a blunt question, I feel it is their responsibility to ask the question differently. Perhaps something like "LeeAnn, do you think these are the jeans I should buy or do you think a different pair would look better?" I can answer something like "Nooo, not those, try these instead!" Or, "I liked the first pair better." The sensitive person is taking responsibility for their reaction instead of laying it on me. I also think that I used the term 'sensitive people' in a different way than you are describing yourself. I was thinking about the people, that no matter how you phrase something, they seem to find any thought that does not agree with theirs, something to get upset about. Another thing to remember, for many people, communication style is hugely affected by our upbringing. What is completely acceptable in one family, is considered rude and crass in another. What is PA in one family is well mannered in another. Great, spot on post. You have done your parlour proud. And great thread, Jeff, thanks for starting it.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 5:06:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetboundesire being new to this...what is defined as "topping from the bottom?" is it truly p.a.? is it when a sub challenges her Dom or calls him a jerk? I'm confused about this statement. If you search, you'll find a gazillion threads about "topping from the bottom" -- whether it is good or bad, whether it even exists, etc. I don't know how Lady Oddsworth would answer your question, but the two things aren't always the same for me, though they can be related.

LadyOddsworth -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 5:29:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetboundesire quote: ORIGINAL: LadyOddsworth To me, topping from the bottom is a much more passive aggressive behavior than dominance. being new to this...what is defined as "topping from the bottom?" is it truly p.a.? is it when a sub challenges her Dom or calls him a jerk? I'm confused about this statement. To me, (and others may have a different definition); Topping from the bottom is when a submissive tries to run the show from their submissive station. They try to get the dominant to do what they want. In turn dominating the relationship yet a Which is not what submission is, and is probably done through non direct communication. To me, passive aggressive behavior is asking for what you want and or stating an objection or any type of communication which is done in a round about manner. Not just asking for what you want or need. Usually used in a negative manner.

LadyOddsworth -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 5:31:43 PM)
Well I wasn't done with my posting above, but my computer thought otherwise. You get the gist

DesFIP -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 5:37:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove Why, when most people really detest dealing with someone who is passive agreessive--does that person continue to use thais mechanism? I am forever puzzles why people cling to a behavior that doesn't work. Someone must be feeding the p/a bears?????? It was a mechanism used to survive childhood in a place where it was unsafe to be angry. And like any such salvatory mechanism, it causes problems in adulthood but cannot be changed without serious therapy. In a world where most HMOs limit therapy to 8 visits, it cannot be fixed. A three year old is denied something and shouts out "I hate you". They get severely punished for expressing anger. They learn through repeated episodes that telling a parent "no" for anything brings swift punishment. They are not considered people with feelings and opinions of their own but dolls. The only way they can get their needs met, including the need to have some control over their own lives is to say one thing and do another.

sweetboundesire -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 5:47:01 PM)
christ, it all stems from childhood doesn't it? yes...it does. it must. I cannot fathom taking it to the extreme of p.a. I would just move on. I may get pissy, I may sulk and pout but then I would put on my big girl panties and realize this isn't the place I want to be. I would get down to brass tacks and find my own game plan. being p.a. must be something that develops early. I just cannot imagine it coming about later on in life unless of course you stay in a situation that sucks for so long...then perhaps.

sexyred1 -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 5:52:47 PM)
DesFIP is right; it comes from being stifled, whether as a child or an adult who is insecure with the thought of outright rejection over their words. My ex husband was a great guy, but he had moments of PA. And I clearly never do. It was tough communicating with him at times. In his case, anger was not allowed to be expressed in his strict, WASP home. So he resorted to PA. In my outspoken and emotionally free Jewish home, we were allowed free rein for intellectual and emotional thoughts and expressions, including anger. In his family, anger was something to be denied and hidden. Thus, it festers and comes out in inappropriate ways and times, as PA. With me, I yell, scream or discuss. It comes out and we all move on. Much healthier. Plus, for me, when I get it over with, I can have awesome make up sex; for him it was more difficult to let it go and let the sexual feelings back in.

Jeffff -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 6:01:21 PM)
I can't believe I started a thread people actually care about. I will try to avoid this in the future. I have the anteater rep and all. Jeff

MsMillgrove -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 6:02:37 PM)
I think a lot of people contributing to this topic are using their own understanding of passive-aggressive behavior which makes for interesting yet also slightly confusing responses. There is a good reason for these varying definitions. Even the "experts" don't agree on all the varieties. The World Health organization has a set of criteria and the DSM-IV (the U.S. bible for mental health dx) has moved it from the list of personality disorders in Axix II into the Appendix B and plans on another move in a later edition, pending more research. For now the Appendix B is defining it as passively resists fulfilling routine social and occupational tasks complains of being misunderstood and unappreciated by others is sullen and argumentative unreasonably criticizes and scorns authority expresses envy and resentment toward those apparently more fortunate voices exaggerated and persistent complaints of personal misfortune alternates between hostile defiance and contrition The language of passive aggression is not really polite, it might have a surface softness but underneath there is a seething quality of misunderstood, unappreciated or resistant. When one talks about directly answering questions like "do these jeans make me fat" with "yes". or switching to something less direct. Those are not really passive aggressive traits. Those language differences are shadings dependent on culture and relationship to the person. The passive aggressive personality often adds a tone of martyrdom into a reply- or speaks with a seeming graciousness or simulated cooperation ..that when you listen closely indicates a different message, "you don't appreciate me. You take advantage of me. I don't really want to do this." Personally, I have felt it most often when someone can maniuplate language in such a way that an agreeable low-key statement when parsed will expose a genuine assault. Almost like it passes by you harmlessly, you run it thru your mind again and you feel a little "ping" like you were just hit by a dart from a blowpipe. The truly practiced, excellent passive aggressive person works quite smoothly. And as a poster said above, sometimes they've honed it so long, they don't even realize how often they are behaving like this.

KnightofMists -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 6:05:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Are they mutually exclusive? Jeff I see Dominance as nothing more that one having the ability to influence and control the will of others. The methods such influence is gained is another thing all together. I believe that some can and do use passive aggressive behavior to obtain that Dominance over some people. It's a tool that some use... maybe not the most effective of tools... but for some individuals it works.

sexyred1 -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 6:08:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I can't believe I started a thread people actually care about. I will try to avoid this in the future. I have the anteater rep and all. Jeff You have to have a quota of serious threads to balance the funny ones. Especially since quite a number of posters have expressed displeasure that there are too many jokes in recent threads and not enough topics to be debated. Apparently, this has been added to the TOS.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 6:19:48 PM)
If, as a dominant, ones goal is to say one thing, but demostrate another - then I guess they aren't mutually exclusive. When I come across someone who is passive aggressive, I try to as kindly as possible, distance myself from them. Granted, I have a terrible memory and forget things on a daily basis. Those who know me, know this. I do get a lot of post-it notes, and phone calls from my friends to keep me on track. But, I never promise to do something, without the disclaimer: I'll probably forget, just nudge me in the right direction, and I'll get there. My friends have often called me their absent minded professor. But they love me despite my deplorable sense of here and now.

MarcEsadrian -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 6:30:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove The passive aggressive personality often adds a tone of martyrdom into a reply- or speaks with a seeming graciousness or simulated cooperation ..that when you listen closely indicates a different message, "you don't appreciate me. You take advantage of me. I don't really want to do this." Personally, I have felt it most often when someone can manipulate language in such a way that an agreeable low-key statement when parsed will expose a genuine assault. Almost like it passes by you harmlessly, you run it thru your mind again and you feel a little "ping" like you were just hit by a dart from a blowpipe. The truly practiced, excellent passive aggressive person works quite smoothly. And as a poster said above, sometimes they've honed it so long, they don't even realize how often they are behaving like this. You know, the DSM IV seldom hits the nail for me in describing personality disorders. Your words above flesh it out far better. Well done.

LadyOddsworth -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 6:46:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I can't believe I started a thread people actually care about. I will try to avoid this in the future. I have the anteater rep and all. Jeff Yay, Jefff! The AntMaster

heartcream -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 8:04:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss I think often people just haven't had "permission" in one form or another to express themselves clearly. By respecting their words, you give them permission for their words to have power... safely. I strongly agree with this. Ya, me too. sunshinemiss, I like the stuff you said in this thread, well done!

heartcream -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/13/2010 8:12:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Sunshiny girl. I understand what you are saying. I think that the difference between your honesty and my honesty ends up being, in large part, personality. I tend to be more economical, if you want to use that term. Some would call it brutal, to me it isn't. I am simply answering in the very same way I would want to be answered. I do not want a bunch of beating about the bush and extra words. Just give me the facts. Example: I am with my sister shopping for some new riding jeans and she asks me "Do these make my ass look fat?" It is a simple question that only requires a yes or no... and I will most generally reply with a yes or no. Some people would get upset if they asked that question and I answered with a "yes". Why??? They asked, I answered. Why should I waste time trying to find 20 words to say what one word does? BUT......if they are sensitive to such a blunt question, I feel it is their responsibility to ask the question differently. Perhaps something like "LeeAnn, do you think these are the jeans I should buy or do you think a different pair would look better?" I can answer something like "Nooo, not those, try these instead!" Or, "I liked the first pair better." The sensitive person is taking responsibility for their reaction instead of laying it on me. I also think that I used the term 'sensitive people' in a different way than you are describing yourself. I was thinking about the people, that no matter how you phrase something, they seem to find any thought that does not agree with theirs, something to get upset about. Another thing to remember, for many people, communication style is hugely affected by our upbringing. What is completely acceptable in one family, is considered rude and crass in another. What is PA in one family is well mannered in another. Great, spot on post. You have done your parlour proud. And great thread, Jeff, thanks for starting it. Yup, again yup.

ranja -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/14/2010 4:34:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Are they mutually exclusive? Jeff sometimes we practise a bit of passive aggression; a bit of sulking, a bit of nagging, a bit of back biting, ignorance and sarcasm... sometimes we engage in full blown aggression and i might call him a 'grumpy bastard' and He might respond with 'stupid cunt' then i might even thump Him and He usually thumps me back harder... we get along splendidly usually, everything included

heartcream -> RE: Passive Aggression and Dominance (1/14/2010 8:04:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I can't believe I started a thread people actually care about. Jeff "If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." --Doug Larson

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