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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 7:01:26 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shayna

I've let my pleasure impulses take over my better judgement many times in my life when it comes to sexual behavior. And I've always paid an emotional price. Yes, at some level I enjoyed the experience, but I don't think it benefited me in ANY way. Over time those experiences have chipped away at my self-worth and I've had to work hard to rectify that. My analogy is: I love the momentary pleasure of eating candy and junk food, but in the long run it's contributing negatively to my physical health. Why would I talk myself into thinking it's ok to do it?



I think you make a good point and one worth pondering on. After a particularly intense physical relationship with a woman and a rather unsatisfactory conclusion to the relationship, I felt particularly psychologically empty at the realisation I (maybe we both were) just gratifying momentary pleasure. The whole relationship felt somewhat vacuous and psychologically unhealthy as I looked back on it. I've had simlar feelings after periods of pure gratification with a series of women. However this time I felt so empty I took time out and took to reading philosophy in hope of making sense of the emptiness and pointlessness of my pursuits. I'm not saying it made me or the world seem better but such reflection on what I was doing did cause me to considerably modify my behaviour and I felt better for it.

I'm not saying there is a right or wrong but hard reflection on ones desires and behaviour can only be a good thing for ones psychological well being. It is not what other people think that is important but what one thinks about oneself that is paramount.

(in reply to Shayna)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 7:11:01 AM   
perfection20005


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I have to agree that sex and love are two different beasts.  Its always better with someone you love, but for some they can keep them seperate and enjoy it.  I can say after my divorce that I had sex with quite a few guys, but never felt love, and thats the first time I finally understood that they are different. 
 
If it makes you feel bad though, maybe you should stop.  And another thought riot, you said the new meds you were taking were making you feel a lot better.  Maybe its because you feel so good that you are on this high(just a thought).


_____________________________

perfection

"I took one look at Him, and I knew He was my Master."

(in reply to PenelopePitstop)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 7:16:53 AM   
fastlane


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Fastlane motions for riot to c'mere.....Pssssst, me too!

_____________________________

Just because it hurts, doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

(in reply to perfection20005)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 7:33:59 AM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

Difficult topic to talk about. But i'd really like to. Its not something you can speak to your friends about so to speak and to have them understand. i do think that the majority of ppl HERE can understand (as it relates) the complex.

Its a 2 sided coin. i'm literally turning into a slut. Its fun actually. And my man has no problems with it. He's actually very helpful in the actual logistics of it all. Sounds great. Learning to explore ones sensuality.. having fun.. the man extremely cool about it. But its like not "okay" with the inside me. i know HE isnt thinking negative things about it, i know he's thinking about me hasnt changed, nor does he suddenly view me different. i've slept with more ppl in the last week then i've slept with in 2 or 3 years. And to me that is wrong. i'm even getting the opportunities to do the things i used to only get to enjoy via the interent. Its fun, i enjoy it - but at times.. later i feel bad. Its of course a constant thought in the back of my head. The negativity towards myself for doing it. i cant even say "oh i'm doing it for my Master so its okay" Cos i'm not. i got a wild hair brained idea and literally ran with it. He just said "yeah, thats interesting" and came along for the ride.

i dont know how to resolve the conflict of how i was raised, what i believe, my own morals with exploring this side of my sexuality. <sigh> Its so wrong.. but i'm so glad i'm doing it. i'm so sure tons of others had to go through this resolve of conflict when it comes to the things we do in this community. i was wondering how others might have resolved the conflict. What do you tell yourself? How do you convince yourself it really IS okay and you neednt judge your self so harshly for doing it? And you'd think i'd of already over come this hurdle.. but i havent. Sex should be special, should be between those that love. It should mean something. (atleast for ME) But it isnt. Its now become some sort of great adventure. And you'd think... arg i dunno. i just cant make the two "add up" if that makes any sense.


I won't go into details other than to say I'm now similarly positioned to "your man." I don't know how to process this new turn, but I have also found myself being supportive and helpful with logistics. As for the values and meaning of it all, I feel I'm flying blind except for the deep trust I have in "my woman."

What I do wonder is WHERE does everything lead and will she be able to stop? In other words, how does such an experimental "free relationship" phase affect someone?

One thing about being a slut, is that it spreads one's emotional investment out --- and it saves you the pain of being cut off from a beloved. Also, when F's are the slut --- the men aren't too judgmental about it --- because men are much more capable of just living in the moment and taking what they can get and being grateful about it.

Anyway, I might characterize "slutdom" as a fear of intimacy issue, as a "I'm in control" experiment, and as a "men really dig me" place.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 3/25/2006 7:44:59 AM >

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 7:51:22 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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I don't know what to tell you.  Resolving personal conflict IS a personal issue and one that you need to take for yourself- especialyl when wrapped up in your own notions of erligious or ethical right and wrongness.

I am a slut, that is A SLUT- not "someones" slut, not "a slut when I'm tipsy," not "a slut when I'm with someone who loves me and don't actually have to take responsibility for it."

I'm a slut, every bit as much as I am a bisexual.  It's who I am, it's my attitude towards sex, life and sexuality.  And I love it.

I used to be a slut for the wrong reasons- I used to need the self-esteem boost in high school, I used to feel there was no other choice for me.  I called myelf a nympho because nymphos are basically sex addicts and completely out of control and very unhealthy.

Then I learned I needed to be a slut for the right reasons.  The reasons being because I ENJOYED it for myself, I wasn't motivated by fear, but by love and desire to connect. 

If you are a slut, then resolving your conflict is partly going to be about learning and loving yourself.  Whether you choose to actively express yourself as a slut is a further chioce.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 8:06:57 AM   
amayos


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Being a slut is fine, though my only concern for you as your Master would be your—and consequently, my—physical health resulting from so many connections.

As for your moral concerns, I've always felt one should not feel ashamed of being natural and uninhibited. While it may be difficult getting over the social stigma ground into your head since childhood, realize that this part of you is just as valid as any other part of you. Perhaps you should consider the guilt in not being a slut—of compartmentalizing your nature and locking it up in the name of being "morally pure". Consider the loneliness, boredom and frustration many live with daily in the name of that pursuit.

Of course a slut can have the intelligence, thoughtfulness, elegance, poise and class that any other woman has. Though if you believe Jesus, Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny are watching wide-eyed and frantically scribbling notes, then by all means end your internal struggle and display proper deportment.


< Message edited by amayos -- 3/25/2006 9:01:41 AM >

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 10:09:39 AM   
ownedgirlie


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i wrote out this big elaborate reply and then accidentally hit "cancel" instead of "preview" 

In short, i have gone through the same thoughts you are expressing, only with different "activity."  But i have discovered that in the confines of my relationship with my Master, it is perfectly safe to bring up and explore anything (minus something causing harm to any other being).  You are essentially doing this for  your Master, because he has decided to go ahead and have you do it.  If he had said no, you wouldn't be doing it.

What you may be running up against is the same thing that conflicted me.  Everything i had been taught throughout my life told me that "good girls" did not do such things.  i had to break through those barriers and know it was safe with him.  i am still a good girl in his eyes, and that is ultimately all that matters.  In fact, he became more proud of me for trusting him enough to push through such activies with him. 

Having said that, the best advice anyone can give is talk talk talk to him.  Examine what about this activity you enjoy so much, and what about it makes you feel bad.  Journal about it, right after it happens, and look at everything, even the emotions that are hard to dig out.  Together you should be able to reconcile how you feel about it, and then he can decide if it is something you should continue, or something to table.  There is a difference between pushing through barriers and screwing up your head.  Together, through thorough examination, you can decide which it is, and whether to continue, slow down, or stop.

i do wish you the best on this.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 10:43:15 AM   
shygirldesires


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my opinion RG...sex is NOT love.
 
just like sensuality is not your sexuality.
 
i dont SLEEP with men, they are allowed to use me as His slut, but i am NOT their slut.
 
i SLEEP with the man i LOVE.
 
Don't ever confuse intimacy with sex when you are His slut
 
i have intimate sex with the man i love, the One who calls me HIS slut.
 
may i suggest the guilt, the conficting feelings comes from associating sex with intimacy?  Sex is lust to man (IMHO). 
 
If your Dom likes you shared and you like to do it... then seduce, and allow yourself to be used as His slut for His pleasure and not your own pleasure.  Maybe the guilt and confliciting feelings come from YOUR pleasure?
 
just a few things to think about.
 
shy, cumslut_DB

_____________________________

"We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them." -- Kahlil Gibran

(in reply to Urza)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 12:37:10 PM   
truesub4u


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Riot, I feel anything I might say, will be wrong. But I'm going to anyways, from my own perspective view. You've heard the expression... if you don't feel guilty afterwards, it was no fun and not worth it. As much as I love the slut in me, and love the feeling I get when being called a slut by the one using me at the time. After wards I fall into the guilt faze of it. I sometimes cry about it, sometimes laugh about it. Even on the rare occasion I get to be used my more than 1 at a time. I enjoy being allowed to be my slutty self. And the guilt hits me harder after the fact.

I've argued over what type of guilt it is I am feeling too. That's one argument I never win, even with myself. I had one try to tell me one time, that the guilt I felt afterwards was a form of subdrop. I never bought into this. Even though I never knew what my guilt was actual about. After alittle while, it wouldn't bother me as much. Until the next go around, where the word was used at me, or multi-partners came into play again.

To this day, I still have the same problem of feeling the guilt after playing with anyone. Even more so if it's just casual sex with a nilla. I feel the same guilt to the point of wondering if this one knows i'm a slut. Did something I do during our time together show him who I am really? I wish I could come up with some miracle answer to help you deal with this feeling of guilt. But I can't. I do not think no one can actually. Because this is one of those personal inner demons, one has to learn to deal with and fight on their own. Having your Master there to help you through this, will be of help to you I am sure. Even if no words are spoken, and he just holds you close. And lets you ramble on, or cry it out. This is where I have found my special "help" with dealing with this. It's not a cure, and won't make it go away each and every time, but it does help me.

Hugs to you Riot... and hope you can find your way to dealing with what I call the guilt demons....


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to shygirldesires)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 1:20:11 PM   
MistressStchWich


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This is not "an issue to be resolved", it is a matter you need to view honestly in the cold hard light of truth.
One respondent stated that :
Overcoming the morals drummed into us from birth is difficult. For most it is impossible. Reconciling the two will take time.

You will never reconcile the desires of the body with the desires of the spirit. The "morals drummed into us from birth" are not just rules of acceptable behavior, they are divine protection built into us before we are ever conceived. Were it not so, it would just be a matter of "changing our minds"...How many hundreds of other things your parents drummed into your head have you easily abandoned after a short while living outside your familial home? If moral values were only things drummed into us, we would turn from them at the first chance, just as we did all the silliness they fed us as truth that made us neurotic and insecure in the first place and gave us hours of fantasy about moving out and being free of them.
 
I do agree with the question of what is it in the acts of being "a slut" (as you put it) satisfies inside you so much that you feel compelled to do something you are offended by after the fact? What are you seeking that you believe this behavior is providing you? And is whatever it is you are seeking morally wrong according to your upbringing? if not, then I don't understand the dilemna. 
Maybe what you are doing to achieve what you seek makes you feel guilty because you are wondering if there is a way you would find more honorable or moral that would achieve the same result for you...I'm just tossing out some thoughts that might help, dear. Regardless, if you do not consider what you and your man are doing to be wrong, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or says.
Hang in there and you'll work it out easily enough. There are many here who are always happy to help and guide through these things, so feel confident it will come out well. Good luck!

_____________________________

Freedom is an expensive enterprise, but well worth the cost. Especially when extracted from the enemy. `Erehc Krueger

(in reply to Urza)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 1:34:40 PM   
slavejali


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I hesitated to write this, actually I wrote it last night when the thread first started then deleted it..but after consideration and some sleep I think its a valid contribution to this thread, its neither talking from a moral viewpoint, nor about the sexual conditioning we receive growing up.

Sex is more than a physical act, if we see it as such we are denying and cutting off various parts of ourselves, that in itself is detrimental of our well-being and experience of life. Sex involves a subtle energy exchange between both partners, it is going to effect our state of mind, our emotional body and our spiritual well-being.
Each partner we interact sexually with gives us a part of them, and we give them a part of us. If this exchange is not equal, one partner can become sick spiritually, emotionally, mentally and even physically. Many people have said sex is not love, and this is true in and of itself, love is about union, joining, the dissappearing of differences, making one not two, one heart, one mind. The absence of love however in the sexual act, just introduces what I spoke about above, two people exchanging an unbalanced amount of subtle energy, which will be derrogatory to the people involved. From this standpoint, its adviseable to choose your sexaul partner wisely. This is an understanding within Tantra.

To continue from a Tantric view, with your new found adventures, one benefit can be seen, the removal of inhibitions sexually, the pure utter joy of it, that ability to open yourself up and just share yourself, they are all really good things....and in this transitional phase of your self-discovery, just keep in mind.....there really is more to sex than just a physical exchange. Your exchanges are going to effect you in many ways.

(Just a little bit of a different offering.)

Regards
slavejali


(in reply to truesub4u)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 1:43:23 PM   
swtdesires2


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  I myself had trouble with the feelings of guilt over this  very same thing, Being a slut , loving it, the feeling of freedom only to have it come crashing back down on me , The old good girls dont do those things, Finally my mentor bless his heart got it through to me it is not wrong for one thing is I am always a woman first and deserve that respect once I allowed myself to think of that , being allowed to feel my sexuality, feel free to express my inner desires , well let me tell you it is the most wonderful feeling, Always remember what you do for your Master should make you proud , You are his slut and that makes you the most special person there is.........

(in reply to Urza)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 1:43:50 PM   
subsue6


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This is a very interesting discussion, which really got me thinking about my situation. I have posted at the end the insightful comments made by others, which stimulated my comments here.
  I too am a slut with a little different twist: I am a lesbian submissive and have been serving older girls and women since I was a teen.

While it's true that not all submissives are sluts, it is fairly common for obvious reasons: some dommes exploit their subs especially in sexual ways, sharing them with friends or other women, just for the enjoyment of the power relationship or as part of the thrill of (semi-)public use and humiliation of the sub girl.
It does get addictive to the sub. She needs the increased thrill of the use and humiliation, so she gets addicted to the sex and the scene and needs it constantly.
There is no question that it is harmful to the sub's sense of self-worth. Since she is mostly not in control, what happens to her psychologically over time is largely in the hands of others. And the lesbian dommes using her have complementary needs: to exploit and use the sub.
So while nymphomania might be too strong a description of what can happen, at least in my case, the sub definitely gets addicted to these "scenes."
                                                Best, sue

at one time in a D/s relationship I found humiliation play to be very detrimental to my mental health - I wasn't in a position to deal well with it. I wanted to please my partner and I liked his response, but I have to be honest with myself and my well-being comes first. So it became an activity that I said was a hard limit. Maybe that will change one day and I'll really get off on it - depends on where I"m at emotionally, what my relationship is with a partner, etc. But, personally, I don't think it's mentally healthy to talk myself into something that at my core level feels detrimental to myself.

I've let my pleasure impulses take over my better judgement many times in my life when it comes to sexual behavior. And I've always paid an emotional price. Yes, at some level I enjoyed the experience, but I don't think it benefited me in ANY way. Over time those experiences have chipped away at my self-worth and I've had to work hard to rectify that.--http://www.collarchat.com/m_303280/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#303280

I'm a slut, every bit as much as I am a bisexual.  It's who I am, it's my attitude towards sex, life and sexuality.  And I love it.

I used to be a slut for the wrong reasons- I used to need the self-esteem boost in high school, I used to feel there was no other choice for me.  I called myelf a nympho because nymphos are basically sex addicts and completely out of control and very unhealthy.

Then I learned I needed to be a slut for the right reasons.  The reasons being because I ENJOYED it for myself, I wasn't motivated by fear, but by love and desire to connect.

If you are a slut, then resolving your conflict is partly going to be about learning and loving yourself.  Whether you choose to actively express yourself as a slut is a further chioce. --http://www.collarchat.com/m_303280/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm

I do agree with the question of what is it in the acts of being "a slut" (as you put it) satisfies inside you so much that you feel compelled to do something you are offended by after the fact? What are you seeking that you believe this behavior is providing you? And is whatever it is you are seeking morally wrong according to your upbringing?--http://www.collarchat.com/m_303280/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm


(in reply to MistressStchWich)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 3:48:18 PM   
Takethiswaltz


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Subsue,
Thanking for sharing your experience.  I think you make valid points in recognizing your limitations and activities that had potential to harm you in one way or another.  I always felt my gut is most reliable, and try to listen to what my gut is screaming at me.
 
However, what my gut tells me has changed a great deal over time.
"Slut" in my 20's never felt right.  I think it was because I was a mother-  I do think many women have a difficult time reconciling their sexuality with their role as mother.  Happily the conflict resolved when my primary role was no longer "mother",  and I've found I've no problem with "slutty" behavior in my 40"s.  I have no problem seperating love and commitment with sex.  As Catize put it, slut has become a celebration.  The only time my gut puts up a fuss is when I have practiced less than adequate safe sex. 

(in reply to subsue6)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 8:50:16 PM   
RiotGirl


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quote:

My question is this: ~what if this was his idea, would you feel differently?~


i'd of told my boyfriend to go screw himself.    that and "not over my dead body" and "in your dreams" and mmmm  okay well.. i'll be fair if it was his idea once upon a time when he wasnt my boyfriend.  i'd of prolly felt just as bad.  Because i "allowed" it to happen.  We are all responsible for our actions.  LOL

(in reply to Quivver)
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RE: Sluts - 3/25/2006 10:11:45 PM   
RiotGirl


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The Mods have gotten vicious i swear.. cant edit my message.  <sigh> and i was just gonna take out the crankiness and leave the point too! 

Thank you all for your thoughts.  i will have to re read them when i am not so dead tired.  (few late nights getting it on.. hehehehe)  Which i refused for tonight actually.  i understand logically, with the logical side of my brain that sex is sex and love is love.  i also understand the tantra thing to Jali (personally its why i felt the need to be a prude i think.. i refused to share myself... joking aside i think i was afraid)  Its always felt that way to me.  Opening up apart of yourself when you are with others. 

This isnt the first time i've been a slut, but it is the first time i enjoyed it.  i have in the past, tried it out, felt it wasnt for me, stopped doing it.  But the mere fact of enjoying it.. well gives me a complex.  i am perfectly adapt at not enjoying it.  i know also alot of ppl in the lifestyle (why i thought a great place to speak about it) have had to deal with the morally wrong issue.  Though i have never.  Its never seemed wrong or felt wrong.  The fact that i might enjoy being whipped never felt "wrong", though i have thought it might make me abit demented.. but i was already sure i am demented.  The only thing similiar to this quandry is the being submissive part as my mother speaks in my head saying "never rely on a man, never let a man take care of you, men are pigs, be a strong independent woman"  with the oppiste side of my father on the other side of the country being a strong dominant male.  i have yet to hit a complex like this.  i suppose i need to find the orgins of the feelings.  Thinking, as i have thought as i cant not think about it, might be my father.  Who i respect more then any other living being.  And i know excatly what he thinks of sluts.  Thousands of reasons why i took off like this.  It (please dont shoot me) as odd as it sounds is a proactive solution, one of the many pro active solutions i have been inacting. 

i dont know.  i was with 4 guys last night one of them a very experienced and knowledgable, told me i was a swinger at heart. Said alot of interseting things, spent 3 hours in convo with hiim actually.  But it just feels so wrong and i dont have to ask myself "what the hell am i doing" as i know excatly what i'm doing. 

i suppose, a shot in the dark.  that as open minded as i am with others, i am very closeminded with myself.  i have a very strict "right and wrong" line.  And i judge.  Told i judge myself too harshly.  i learned my own morals, values and ect.  i never took others (atleast i dont think) i experienced tons of things and set down for ME whats right and wrong.  And i know excatly what i think about being a slut.  Its like - some one could sleep with a dog and it wouldnt matter one whit to me.  i'd have no negative thoughts.  i'd prolly be happy that they could break out of societies restraints and enjoy themselves.  But if I slept with a dog.. well

i have yet to be able to process what everyone has said and i greatly appreciate everyones thought.  i'm going to have to come back later and re read what you all have said.  Thanks tons.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Sluts - 3/26/2006 12:17:51 AM   
ExistentialSteel


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Your experience reminds me of my own coming to terms with my Dom desires. What is happening with you is the  pain of consciousness. If you could only be one of those who acts without thinking, I bet you are thinking. When you are most aware of the “right” things, desire can make you do the “wrong” things. The more you think of the right things and your desire to do the wrong things, the more the conflict builds until it can only be fixed by….guess what…the excitement of doing the wrong things. Guilt and enjoyment at the same time.
 
The awareness that you have broken the ultimate rules that you have always believed you should follow tells you that there is no escape from yourself. There is nowhere to run. Even if you wish to change, you will do nothing. So let that damned consciousness tell you the truth and   realize that you are guiltless.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Sluts - 3/26/2006 4:08:14 AM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
How do you convince yourself it really IS okay and you neednt judge your self so harshly for doing it?  And you'd think i'd of already over come this hurdle.. but i havent.  Sex should be special, should be between those that love.  It should mean something.  (atleast for ME)  But it isnt.  Its now become some sort of great adventure.  And you'd think... arg i dunno.  i just cant make the two "add up" if that makes any sense.


It seems to me you answered your own question.  There is an old saying: "the chickens always come home to roost".  which in your case tells me that you are having this adventure of a lifetime right now that disagrees with your fundamental character.  up till now you may know on an academic level why you feel sex is sacred and now you have the full opportunity to prove it to yourself why you believe this.  In most cases a persons fundamental character will in the end win, just dont go so fast that you do something you will regret for the rest of your life. 

good luck and play safe!
r1


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to RiotGirl)
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RE: Sluts - 3/26/2006 9:09:18 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 3319
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
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greetings riotgirl
 
In my view I see nothing wrong in what you are experiencing.  I do go with the sugguestion about safe sex.  Personally if my slave is not a slut, I will train her to be one.  Relax and enjoy. 
 
I wish you well
 
Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to Urza)
Profile   Post #: 39
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