RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm community'

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 6:16:26 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
This is what you find at your supermarket check out! Ok, it's not ultra kinky, but it has the basic elements of kink. Kink is everywhere.

Yes! Isn't is awesome?

Hubba Hubba!!

- LA

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 6:28:35 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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FR-

My boyfriend is definately kinky, definately dominant, but doesn't necessarily see himself that way. He knows I am on this site, but he doesn't particularly care for computers at all. Personally, I don't go to events or have any desire to start. I use terms like "lifestyle" as the all encompassing term for people who are into this kind of "stuff." I don't see the whole "kinky 'nillas" concept. I think most people are kinky in some way, they may not use the terms used here, but "kinky 'nilla" is kind of an oxymoron. You are either into kinky or you aren't. The levels make little difference other than compatibility with a partner. The concept of "kinky 'nilla" is pretty equal to the age old discussion of what is "true." Everyone finds their own level of comfort.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 6:31:21 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sodsta

Generally when I meet "kinky" non-lifestylers, they've always been submissive. I actually know quite a few kinky submissive people who have no interest in formalised BDSM, but very, very few dominants.

To be honest, I think my ideal relationship would be with a dominant person who wasn't so much into the lifestyle and just enjoyed dominance and sadism on a more casual, less structured level. Those people are rather difficult to come by, though.

I don't consider myself as part of a lifestyle. I consider myself a dominant, sadistic woman. I've been told that I'm completely unconventional in my approach, which is pretty much how I am in most areas of my life. Just because I am here doesn't mean I'm following anyone's script. I'm exchanging ideas and I'm getting feedback. I call this learning.

- LA

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 6:38:09 PM

Level

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quote:

I think it will vary according to how ethical they are and how much common sense they possess. Long before I knew about the bdsm community, I implemented my own use of "safewords" when roleplaying with a teenage boy (I was a teenage girl of course) and making him "pretend like he wanted to be let go and resist my kisses." It's common sense to know that a code word should be put in place when you are playing make believe games.

Akasha

Agreed; but what about when it isn't a game? *cues ominous music*

quote:

Ialdabaoth:

Oh, absolutely. I know plenty of men who could give a fuck about "consent" - they get what they want, and that's that. They don't objectify women because the women want to be objectified; they objectify women because women are disposable toys, and what are you going to do about it if you don't want them to? They have more money than you, better lawyers, and better last names, and the police and judges like the cut of their jib. And these people typically spend vastly more money on fetish gear and furniture than you or I do.

Likewise, I know plenty of women who love to humiliate men, and if the man doesn't want to be humiliated, so much the better. They use their looks and their upper-class bearing to find boys that want them, and then degrade and humiliate them for kicks. And yes, what they're doing is absolutely "kink" - it's just "kink" divorced of any of our community's standards, ethics, rules, or mores - because they don't need them.

And it isn't just the wealthy that are like that (though that certainly enables them, and protects them). Had some personal experience there, and it was hell getting rid of the little fucker, poor though he was.

quote:

lovingpet:

I think having some sense of "community" standards does give some sort of framework to a lot of people's practices. I think it may also give them the good sense to stay quiet about some of their more.....interesting practices.

Indeed!!

Good topic, Akasha.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 6:43:54 PM

Ialdabaoth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
And it isn't just the wealthy that are like that (though that certainly enables them, and protects them). Had some personal experience there, and it was hell getting rid of the little fucker, poor though he was.

Oh, absolutely. The thing is, when poor people do it, we just call it "domestic abuse" and everyone perfectly understands what's going on.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 8:07:33 PM

DemonKia

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Hmmmm, two thoughts after reading thru:

(A) Where are you people meeting all these kinky freaky people that are not at munches, play parties, classes, et al? I am so jealous, lol.

&

(B) I've taken a handful of classes from Jay Wiseman in the last year & he talked about his forensic-expertise clientele being drawn disproportionately from those not participating in the out-&-organized-kink community, such as it is (primarily breath play gone awry, but also bondage gone awry & etc) . . . . . & the things putting those clients in front of a judge are more likely to be things that are taught as part of basic safety . .... . Fwtw . .. . .

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 8:11:25 PM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

Hmmmm, two thoughts after reading thru:

(A) Where are you people meeting all these kinky freaky people that are not at munches, play parties, classes, et al? I am so jealous, lol.

Everywhere. School, work (but I don't do that), library, café, local pub / lounge / supperclub, dinner party, wine tasting club, amateur sports team, grocery store line up while reading the cosmo article ;-)

- LA

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 8:18:09 PM

antipode

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quote:

capable "tops" but just not "lifestylers"?

I just have no desire to label myself - I see many folks here escape from "conventional" and then build a rulebook around their "unconventional" lifestyle. I am just me..

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 10:18:49 PM

QuirkyAnne

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I always had submissive fantasies and desperately wanted to act them out with different partners. I was introduced to the "lifestyle" by a co-worker who was heavily involved in it and my exploration ended when I realized that what was normal for her and others in our area and their particular brand of BDSM was definitely NOT for me. So I read some books, took what little I'd learned and brought it into some of my relationships but without much satisfaction. It wasn't till a couple years ago that my ex and I got together and he was a very capable top whose kinky side was restricted to the bedroom and helped me figure out what I was myself. The relationship ended though we remain friends and it gave me the confidence to explore more of my kinky side and sexuality. I've been to play parties, munches, gotten lots of great advice, gotten to experience different sensations and truly appreciate the friendships and acquaintances I've made there, though I honestly don't consider myself to be a "lifestyler." My kink is just something that is a part of my nature and comes out when myself and my partner want it to.

< Message edited by QuirkyAnne -- 1/31/2010 10:19:47 PM >

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 1/31/2010 11:00:41 PM

Ialdabaoth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia
(B) I've taken a handful of classes from Jay Wiseman in the last year & he talked about his forensic-expertise clientele being drawn disproportionately from those not participating in the out-&-organized-kink community, such as it is (primarily breath play gone awry, but also bondage gone awry & etc) . . . . . & the things putting those clients in front of a judge are more likely to be things that are taught as part of basic safety . .... . Fwtw . .. . .

Well... with all due respect to the esteemed Mr. Wiseman, he's a bit of a "safety fetishist". Makes sense, given the sorts of things he's had to deal with. But most of the people I met "outside the community" were from odd networking paths I tried to follow - in one case, from chaperoning an ex-boss's somewhat spoiled child through a wild semester of exclusive fraternity/sorority connections. The less said about that, the better.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/1/2010 12:48:54 AM

allthatjaz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I think having some sense of "community" standards does give some sort of framework to a lot of people's practices. I think it may also give them the good sense to stay quiet about some of their more.....interesting practices. This can be protective for some and highly restrictive to others. I don't think it mean those standards are necessarily flawed, but not meant as a hard and fast set of absolutes.

lovingpet

I agree with this.

Before I found the scene I used to use men. I didn't know how to channel my dominance and although the men I was with obviously enjoyed it to an extent, they didn't really understand it and neither did I. Retaliations where the norm from vanilla men I dated. They would allow me to push so much before their conscience pricked them. It didn't matter if they enjoyed it or not because it came under the heading 'this isn't normal is it?'
Those were still very kinky times but not happy ones. I didn't understand why I wanted to hurt a man and make him suffer when I became sexually turned on. I knew I didn't hate men but I think it sometimes came over that way. We were just confused.

One vanilla dominant man comes to mind, though this was many years ago. He would always look out for women who he called 'sexual sluts'. He tended to attract submissive minds but they were submissive minds that were very much in the vanilla world and he would use them, talk about them and spit them out. I believe if a man like that had found the scene, he could of channeled what he liked and learnt to embrace it and respect the women he was with.

Between my break up and meeting Steve I dated a couple of vanilla guys. I discovered a kinky side very quickly but thats only because I have no inhibitions when it comes to talking openly about it. Its only living the lifestyle that has enabled me to go down a route with a vanilla guy where other women dare not tread.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 2/1/2010 12:58:13 AM >

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/1/2010 5:49:11 AM

MsMillgrove

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I have been a kinky player all my life, I just didn't know it--didn't know the words. The first time i had sex with my ex-husband, he was taking too long to get his pants off, so I helped him--and as i was flexing his belt in my hands.. he said.."er you are not going to use that belt on me are you?" Oooh i just loved that geniune sound of fear in his voice.

Getting service subs when you are young and beautiful is so easy.. incredible. I didn't call them "subs', referred to them as "my minions". Wow what fun i had.

One of the reasons I am glad to finally be a part of the local community are the demonstrations--there were so many things I shied away from because I was not confident I could do them safely. Safewords just are not a big issue with me. I realize that everyone has good reasons for declaring them a "must", but frankly I spent a lifetime without them and never damanged anyone or couldn't figure out when to quit. As someone I know says, "always leave them wanting more." and that was my mantra too.

I'm glad that we have the "safety fetishist" Jay Wiseman around, cause as more and more folks play closer to the edge, the better it is to be well-informed. What we learn about the risks of breath play or how close the kidneys are to the skin--and easily bruised--will eventually trickle into the mainstream press.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/1/2010 1:29:15 PM

HisSub1213

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Sounds like my Owner. He cares nothing about BDSM trappings unless you count toys.

Isn't every one always saying that there is no Lifestyle anyway?

Neither of us go to events, munches or care to. While he knows I chat and use forums it just holds no interest for him, being dominant and kinky is just who he is. Not so much what he is.

He doesn't call me his submissive but he will tell me that he enjoys that I am submissive to him. I don't call him Master or even Owner, but while typing here it is easier for me to use the honorific Owner to designate who he is and what he means to me.

Now that I think about it, any BDSM trappings that we do happen to have are on my behalf lol.

This pretty well describes our relationship as well. Neither of us are into the local events, munches etc. I guess we're pretty tame actually.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/1/2010 5:24:52 PM

DemonKia

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Hehehe, Ialda, he ain't the only 'safety fetishist' around. I get an astounding number of potential partners throwing themselves at me, of both sexes & all ages, just due to my own 'safety fetish' stuff, lol . . . . .

I know there's tons who get into being perceived as 'psycho' & 'dangerous' & etc etc, some who really are, plenty who just play it for effect. & I get that it does work for some on the receiving end. But there's plenty who like to feel safe about this stuff, too . .. . ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

Well... with all due respect to the esteemed Mr. Wiseman, he's a bit of a "safety fetishist". Makes sense, given the sorts of things he's had to deal with. But most of the people I met "outside the community" were from odd networking paths I tried to follow - in one case, from chaperoning an ex-boss's somewhat spoiled child through a wild semester of exclusive fraternity/sorority connections. The less said about that, the better.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/1/2010 5:55:18 PM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I agree with this.

Before I found the scene I used to use men. I didn't know how to channel my dominance and although the men I was with obviously enjoyed it to an extent, they didn't really understand it and neither did I. Retaliations where the norm from vanilla men I dated. They would allow me to push so much before their conscience pricked them. It didn't matter if they enjoyed it or not because it came under the heading 'this isn't normal is it?'
Those were still very kinky times but not happy ones. I didn't understand why I wanted to hurt a man and make him suffer when I became sexually turned on. I knew I didn't hate men but I think it sometimes came over that way. We were just confused.

One vanilla dominant man comes to mind, though this was many years ago. He would always look out for women who he called 'sexual sluts'. He tended to attract submissive minds but they were submissive minds that were very much in the vanilla world and he would use them, talk about them and spit them out. I believe if a man like that had found the scene, he could of channeled what he liked and learnt to embrace it and respect the women he was with.

Between my break up and meeting Steve I dated a couple of vanilla guys. I discovered a kinky side very quickly but thats only because I have no inhibitions when it comes to talking openly about it. Its only living the lifestyle that has enabled me to go down a route with a vanilla guy where other women dare not tread.

-FR-

My best friend is like that, she's very dominant, and even sadistic in her relationships, but doesn't identify as a domme or dominatrix or "BDSM" or any of that. Maybe she'd say "kinky" but not seriously, more as a joke.

She seems to view her relationships in the framework of what the guy can do for her, but I don't know if she'd be happier identifying as "domme" - in fact I don't think she'd enjoy or be comfortable with that label, or with men who come to her begging to submit, because she's the kind of person who wants them to submit because of who SHE is, not because of who THEY are. I doubt she'd be attracted at all to a self identified submissive man.

As for myself, I don't identify as BDSM at all, the only time I call myself "submissive" or "switchy" is on this site, because it's a quick way to get across a general concept, but I don't view myself as "a submissive" when I'm not posting here, I just consider myself a devoted wife and a woman who loves her man. And I don't know if the fact that it turns me on to imagine myself having power over another person (mostly a woman, occasionally a man) would make me a "switch" because I don't see myself that way, I just see myself as a princess :P

To me, identifying with BDSM tends to be more kink-oriented, and identifying with D/s or M/s tends to be more lifestyle oriented, and I would say I'm neither. I'm "kinky" in the sense that I like more than just missionary sex or over romantic sex all the time, but I don't identify *myself* as kinky. I'm not a "kinky person" or a "kinkster" or a "BDSM'er" or any of that. I'm just a woman who likes some spice in the bedroom.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/1/2010 8:49:52 PM

Ialdabaoth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Hehehe, Ialda, he ain't the only 'safety fetishist' around. I get an astounding number of potential partners throwing themselves at me, of both sexes & all ages, just due to my own 'safety fetish' stuff, lol . . . . .

I know there's tons who get into being perceived as 'psycho' & 'dangerous' & etc etc, some who really are, plenty who just play it for effect. & I get that it does work for some on the receiving end. But there's plenty who like to feel safe about this stuff, too . .. . ..

*nods* fair enough. I know it's somewhat intrinsically incompatible with some of the stuff I do; I try to be as safe as I POSSIBLY can at the things I enjoy, but there's simply no way to be 100% "safe" with most of my kinks. Unfortunately, due to this I tend to get lumped in with the "safeties off!" hardcores, which also isn't my schtick - I don't like danger, and I try to make everything I do as safe as possible given the goal of the scene - and no safer.

If that makes any sense?

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/1/2010 11:06:21 PM

DemonKia

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Sure, Ialda. I didn't say anything about 100% safe, nor about necessarily only doing 'safe stuff', lol . . . . . Cuz who defines 'safe' or '100%', ya know. Personally I generally prefer to stick to the word 'safer' rather than 'safe', & to discuss in the context that this stuff has dangers that can be minimized with care & education . . . .

For example, I've ended up doing a bunch of needle topping which I never woulda figured myself for, nor would I have figured there'd be much demand but yee-haw! lots of people are willing or happy to get poked with needles recreationally . ... . .

& it actually doesn't seem like a big deal, now that I am a needle top, but it is considered 'edgy' by some. & there's other things I do that are 'edgy' that I don't think are that big a deal to swathes of kinksters but squick others out.

& there're plenty of bottoms, in my experience, who wanna 'feel safe' about the whole thing. They understand they might get an infection or whatever, but they wanna be able to trust the person doing stuff, above & beyond the details.

& the trust extended my way is far in excess of my 'experience', which is quite modest & about which I'm rather scrupulously TMI about, lol . ... . But I do convey the safety fetish, I'm a start light & go slow type & I do a lot of educational stuff about everything, especially from a safety angle.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/2/2010 9:31:28 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

I am curious how many female subs, for example, had met (in their vanilla passing) men who were deliciously kinky and good at it, but not really lifestylers and had no desire to get into that. Were these men good at being dominant, or capable "tops" but just not "lifestylers"?

None...as in zero.

Every single man this slave ever experienced "in vanilla passing" was not kinky, dominant or a top...even in a "bad" way. this slave's desires, if even expressed, were what they considered "sick"...in need of therapy or meds or perhaps an exorcism.

the only time this slave ever encountered a sexually kinky dominant male is when she specifically sought one out...from the "lifestylers" crowd.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/2/2010 10:07:12 AM

RumpusParable

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My Chael is like this, in a funny way. We have been engaging in BDSM and D/s relationships with, respectively, ourselves and others since we got together... but if you asked him, he'd say we only started a coupla years ago.

I would call him my slave, he would call himself -grudgingly, as he hates to use any such terminology as he considers himself vanilla mainly- a dominant who is a service bottom.

He's one of the rawest, kinkiest people I've known and considers himself vanilla because these things are all just regular nature to him... it doesn't occur to him that these things are considered different to some people.

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RE: Sexual sadists and kinky people NOT in the 'bdsm co... - 2/2/2010 11:53:36 AM

lally2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
This is what you find at your supermarket check out! Ok, it's not ultra kinky, but it has the basic elements of kink. Kink is everywhere.

Yes! Isn't is awesome?

Hubba Hubba!!

- LA

its everywhere. just browse through the magazine wracks and youll see at least one magazine going off on some kinky tangent.

bar one guy, who was abusive, all of my 'nilla boyfriends were kinky, though they never called it that. OTK spanking, ass play, light bondage. my first serious boyfriend was seriously Ds but never called it that and ive had more slaps across my bottom and playful threats of 'you need a good spanking' than i can accurately count

its the Dominance bit thats missing with them, sadly. otherwise its all been good clean funtine.

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