RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice?

RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 10:47:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Maybe you didn't articulate your words correctly? Maybe. It isn't actually something that I find easy to articulate, hence the reason that I started the thread. - LA

DesFIP -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 11:04:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Very true. But they chose to live a heterosexual life. That is what I'm saying about choice. We all can chose. - LA Actually I would say they chose to live a pretense of a heterosexual life. They choose to lie to their spouse and make their spouse feel incompetent and insufficient because of that lie. They choose to teach their children through their actions that they are basically unlovable in their authentic selves. They choose to ruin several lives rather than have the courage to be who they are.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 11:07:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Very true. But they chose to live a heterosexual life. That is what I'm saying about choice. We all can chose. - LA Actually I would say they chose to live a pretense of a heterosexual life. They choose to lie to their spouse and make their spouse feel incompetent and insufficient because of that lie. They choose to teach their children through their actions that they are basically unlovable in their authentic selves. They choose to ruin several lives rather than have the courage to be who they are. And what if by nature they are a very uncourageous person? - LA

juliaoceania -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:09:02 PM)
quote: And what if by nature they are a very uncourageous person? - LA They think psychotics are born that way, and just because it is in their nature to do the heinous things that they do does not change the fact they must be stopped. Being an uncourageous person is not in and of itself a bad thing, but using people nonconsensually because of it is....

LadyAngelika -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:15:14 PM)
I agree 100%. I just think all of this isn't as black and white as some people would like it to be. - LA

juliaoceania -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:24:25 PM)
Life is rarely black and white... I am sure some people have more choice and flexibility in their choices than others do...

LadyAngelika -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:27:30 PM)
Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility. - LA

juliaoceania -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:30:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility. - LA Okay, now we are entering Foucault land

domiguy -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:32:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika I agree 100%. I just think all of this isn't as black and white as some people would like it to be. - LA It is black and white for those that are black and white. All of the rationalization and conversation in the word is not going to change that fact. So the gay guy goes out and fucks a woman...It is going to change nothing. He is gay and he might feel a little repulsed at betraying his true self.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:36:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility. - LA Okay, now we are entering Foucault land I <3 Paul-Michel Foucault!! It's not my fault, I'm a hard wired post-structuralist and postmodernist! - LA

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:38:34 PM)
I am not sure I get the point of this thread at all really, in so far as I don't see the point of it. That is probably why I don't like it very much, I don't like the accusatory nature that reads bellow the surface. See as I see it you can transfer thoughts like these to something far less antagonistic. I like chocolate, I just am, I don't know why it is probably a combination of things if I never ate chocolate again I wouldn't stop being able to function but I wouldn't stop liking chocolate. To me that is the same as what we are talking about here. All impulses and desires can be controlled but sometimes controling them is a bad thing

juliaoceania -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:39:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility. - LA Okay, now we are entering Foucault land I <3 Paul-Michel Foucault!! It's not my fault, I'm a hard wired post-structuralist and postmodernist! - LA Okay, I have an admitted fondness for this guy when looking at sexuality... that is a fact... power is about who wields it at any one time and all that good shit

Jeffff -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:39:27 PM)
The point IS...... nobody really like a banjo player! Jeff

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:45:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff The point IS...... nobody really like a banjo player! Jeff Its not like you play the accordion....don't be so hard on yourself man.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:46:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally I am not sure I get the point of this thread at all really, in so far as I don't see the point of it. That is probably why I don't like it very much, I don't like the accusatory nature that reads bellow the surface. See as I see it you can transfer thoughts like these to something far less antagonistic. It's really ok that you don't like this thread. There are a lot of threads on this board that I don't care for much neither. I can assure you that as the OP, my quest was to understand things and not accuse anyone of anything. There have been responses in which people made accusatory remarks, and like you, I'm not fond of those neither. But in the end, this is a forum where people will come to voice their opinions. quote: I like chocolate, I just am, I don't know why it is probably a combination of things if I never ate chocolate again I wouldn't stop being able to function but I wouldn't stop liking chocolate. To me that is the same as what we are talking about here. All impulses and desires can be controlled but sometimes controling them is a bad thing While that was not the point of the OP, it is a very good addition to the discussion. What I'm saying is that in a place where we have the liberty to chose to be who we want to be to a large degree, we are making choices every day that define who we are. People are more than welcomed to disagree with me. I welcome debates and people have made awesome points so far that have made me think a lot. That is why I post such threads. As my sig line says: An unexamined life is not worth living (Socrates) - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:51:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility. - LA Okay, now we are entering Foucault land I <3 Paul-Michel Foucault!! It's not my fault, I'm a hard wired post-structuralist and postmodernist! - LA Okay, I have an admitted fondness for this guy when looking at sexuality... that is a fact... power is about who wields it at any one time and all that good shit Oh his writings on the Prison system as a means of dominance and reform are right on the money as well. - LA

Jeffff -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:52:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff The point IS...... nobody really like a banjo player! Jeff Its not like you play the accordion....don't be so hard on yourself man. I DO NOT play the banjo......... Incidentally, what do you call perfect pitch on a banjo? When you toss it into a dumpster and it hits an accordion! Ok... back to the thread

Scheherazade67 -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:53:51 PM)
Yes I agree that ultimately - as an adult - it is a choice. However, environment or not, very little of what shapes us when we are younger is about choice. That's sort of what most of childhood is about. We don't have many choices. Unfortunately.

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:57:41 PM)
i think you made this discussion unnecessarily volatile by including sexual orientation in the equation. That is a hot potato that always causes lots of debate. The more interesting component of the question for me is the kink aspects. Do we choose our BDSM role? IMO, that is a very different question. Do we choose to be masochistic? Do we choose to be sadistic? Do we choose to be submissive? Do we choose to be dominant? These are very different questions than the sexual orientation question (and much less volatile). Personally, i enjoy being submissive, but when i cannot find a dominant woman, then i will often engage in vanilla relationships. Some of the vanilla relationships are very enjoyable. Given no other choice, i could probably be content in a permanent vanilla relationship. But if i have a choice, i PREFER power exchange. Perhaps some would say that the preference is hard wired into me, and therefore it is not a choice at all. i don't have the expertise (or necessary data) to draw that conclusion. So i will say that for me, it is a matter of choice with a definite preference.

Jeffff -> RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you have a choice? (2/13/2010 12:57:52 PM)
I could no more choose to be gay than I could choose to be black. This is not homophobia. This is just a fact. I do not think I am an anomaly. Jeff

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