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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/22/2010 11:35:32 PM   
PhoenixRed


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I will be there! I'll e-mail you to find out the details. I look forward to it.....both the camp and meeting this strapping young buck.

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 12:42:02 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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Watch out, I might conscript you to do a demo.  Would that be "forced" play of some kind? 

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 4:31:04 PM   
LadyOddsworth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: softsissy

So what appeals more to a Mistress.

A strong alpha male who they can break,and becomes her submissive.

or an already beta male who they know they can easily Dominate and would not be a challenge at all.



Traits I look for in a man....integrity, respect, courage, honor,compassion, honesty, a sense of duty, intelligence,creativity and humor. 

Are those seen as alpha or beta traits or are they simply labels? 

Why would I want to "break" a man?  "If you let people break your spirit and detour you from your path, then you have not been true to yourself or those you're here to touch, those who believe in you."  I want a man who is true to himself and to his nature...whatever that nature is.  That's more attractive than any "broken" man...alpha or otherwise.

That being said...OP, how did you come to the conclusion that alpha males are "strong" and beta males are "weak sissywimps"?


Hear, hear!
It takes a strong man to submit. 
 

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 4:43:54 PM   
PhoenixRed


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It's not forced if I agree to it! What kind of demo would you like? I've been doing a lot of sounding demos lately....

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 4:48:55 PM   
PhoenixRed


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Unless you're talking about some "forced" play like "forced bi".....whooops, wait, I think common consensus around these boards is that activity isn't "forced" at all.....ok..."encouraged" bi.....I'd be all over that! Not a 101 type thing, ya think?

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Everyone deserves a break from the person everyone else expects them to be.
In the great experiment known as evolution, evidently there are some people who's ancestors were in the control group.

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 5:01:18 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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I'm not sure what kind of demos yet.  It will depend on what the group wants to learn.  I'm going to try to be pretty flexible with the curriculum.

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 5:07:37 PM   
PhoenixRed


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Well, I don't personally know most in that group, but from what I've seen of their discussions, I don't think there are many "weak beta sissywimp" submissives there, so I'm sure they'll roll with whatever you decide to include.

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Everyone deserves a break from the person everyone else expects them to be.
In the great experiment known as evolution, evidently there are some people who's ancestors were in the control group.

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 5:12:49 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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No, not many.  In fact, most of them are switchy, but I think that has more to do with not being sure where they feel most comfortable and/or wanting to sample everything on the proverbial buffet.  I may have trouble coming up with demo bottoms.  Eeek!

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Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 5:24:57 PM   
PhoenixRed


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I hear you. Nothing wrong with switchy and finding your way when one is not sure. That certainly isn't indicative of weakness, just uncertainty. We all had to start out somewhere. Don't worry, I can help find some demo bottoms if we need them. Well, I'm pretty sure, as long as you're ok with demo bottoms outside the TNG age range.... And I don't think "sampling the proverbial buffet" is a trait just the TNGs possess...

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Everyone deserves a break from the person everyone else expects them to be.
In the great experiment known as evolution, evidently there are some people who's ancestors were in the control group.

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/23/2010 5:36:45 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


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No argument here.    When we get to the demo stage, I'm hoping to go on fieldtrips to the DWotS meetings.  I doubt having demo bottoms outside the TNG range will be a problem.  Let's definitely keep in touch and see how things pan out. 

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Sylverë
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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/24/2010 7:39:13 AM   
FelineFae


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

  I may have trouble coming up with demo bottoms. 


Why do i doubt this ?

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/24/2010 8:32:11 AM   
MsHValentine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

Traits I look for in a man....integrity, respect, courage, honor,compassion, honesty, a sense of duty, intelligence,creativity and humor. 



Why would I want to "break" a man?  "If you let people break your spirit and detour you from your path, then you have not been true to yourself or those you're here to touch, those who believe in you."  I want a man who is true to himself and to his nature...whatever that nature is.  That's more attractive than any "broken" man...alpha or otherwise.


<smile>

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/24/2010 9:01:43 AM   
femwraith


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hhmmmhm i would say i perfer someone who wants to submit

cuz honestly you can make some do something a person what they dont want to and even if you did that would not be right .... i think that would be more of a crime with jail time

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/24/2010 10:48:07 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softsissy

So what appeals more to a Mistress.

A strong alpha male who they can break,and becomes her submissive.

or an already beta male who they know they can easily Dominate and would not be a challenge at all.


See, it's just not that simple of a dichotomy.  A "Manly-Man", uber domly, stoic, arrogant and stuck firmly in a socially acceptable male gender role, is not the least bit appealing.  But neither is someone who buys into the same basic belief that you can only be strong f you adhere to socially conventional gender roles, and if you don't you're weak.  Deciding that a) the socially prescribed rigid gender roles are an accurate indication of strength and dominance and b) because you're submissive you must reverse those roles is STILL buying into the bullshit that I consider toxic, unhealthy and not in the least bit attractive.  Mostly because buying in means you agree that male/having balls = strong and dominant and female/being feminine = weak and submissive, lowly, degraded, inferior, etc. 

Wanna know what I find seriously fucking hot?  I play with a couple of pansexual boys who are big and strong (one of them is a semi-pro bodybuilder) but who can seriously ROCK the lingerie they like to wear.  They're so totally beyond being hung up on gender roles that it's all fun and sexy to them.  The power they can command when they bring both male and female charisma to bear is astonishing.  They aren't at all sissy, or wimpy, or even very beta, though are wonderful at projecting "fuck me, I am ripe for the taking and I want to surrender my hot ass to you."  The closest media model I could point to in describing that unique charisma is Frank N. Furter from the Rocky Horror Picture Show, except they're a lot more mature and less drama prone.

I have no idea whether to describe those boys as being alpha or beta.  They are primarily submissive, occasionally switchy, mostly with other boys and other genderbenders.  They just don't fit into any conventional roles.  They can be very femme at will or very male at will.  When they're femme, they aren't necessarily submissive or weak, in fact a lot of powerful "I am woman, hear me roar" matriarchial energy seems to come forward when they femme out.  When they are feeling more male, the maleness they put out is not the conventional manly-man energy.  It's powerful, but it's not intrinsically connected with dominance.  Some Native cultures called folks like this "two spirited" and considered them sacred.  I'd have to agree. 

I also know some very quiet and confident males who are strong, gracious, courteous, gentlemanly and totally submissive to the partner they love and respect.  Their demeanor is "Gentleman knight in service to his Lady", and it works.  Are they alpha or beta?   Neither, really.  They don't feel compelled to lord it over others, nor is it easy to lord it over them unless you have first earned their trust and respect.

My primary partner is one of the pansexual genderbenders I described earlier.  He's quiet most of the time, but strong and confident.  Neither alpha nor beta socially, really.  He doesn't lead and he doesn't follow; he does his own thing.  I really wouldn't advise pissing him off, though.   He's  seriously indestructible, and even though I am a very heavy player, I end up having to stop long before he safewords.  He cannot be made to safeword through physical pain, as far as I can tell.  He can endure pretty much anything, at least anything I can do without risking permanent damage.  I am an experienced and savage sadist, so this is really saying something.  He is perpetually graceful and dignified in his service to me, whether he is expressing a more male or more female gender feeling at the time.   I suppose he'd qualify as an alpha, but it's really hard to say as he's mostly asocial and avoids relating to others in any kind of social power structure at all.

The other member of my poly family probably would qualify as beta, and a natural submissive.  He's a lightweight in terms of our physical play, and I only have to look at him threateningly and raise my hand to make him shiver and go weak at the knees, barely able to stand.  He's dead easy to intimidate and to push around.  I get a genuine fear/intimidation response from him that I don't get from my primary partner.  He's a brilliant scientist, same as my primary (different field though), but definitely more of an obvious geek/nerd type.   I have to say that I enjoy his rapid responses of real fear and intimidation very much, as much as I enjoy being served by a strong, graceful and dignified transgender warrior.  They're two different things and I'm very happy to have them both in my life.   I doubt I could pick or choose one as being better than the other for me.


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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/24/2010 9:48:35 PM   
MargueriteV


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I don't like the assumption that an alpha male needs to be broken to submit, and being a beta doesn't make a man weak....


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Wait What?

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 2/28/2010 4:42:40 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

Why would you call a slave who is willingly obedient from the outset, weak?
 

 
 
 



Its probably easier to just ask, "would you rather live in France with Johnny Depp, or would you prefer to live in Detroit with an unemployed auto worker who has a penchant for cross dressing.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/28/2010 4:43:25 PM >

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 3/1/2010 8:42:46 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: softsissy

So what appeals more to a Mistress.

A strong alpha male who they can break,and becomes her submissive.

or an already beta male who they know they can easily Dominate and would not be a challenge at all.


My preference is... I have no preference. I can truly appreciate both types of servant for who and what they are. Their role in my household might vary, depending on which end of the spectrum they fall, but I am not disinclined in either direction. However, I would not be interested in "breaking" a leadership-oriented servant. If that individual were, indeed, of a service nature, and were leadership-oriented as well, that person would be a magnificent Head Butler or Chatelaine, so why would I want to strip that from hir? OTOH, having a very yielding servant makes for a peaceful and easily flowing household, where the chain of authority is well respected and the work that needs to be done gets done with a minimum of angst or complaint.... so, as you can see, depending on the task at hand, both would be worthwhile servants as long as their nature was considered in the process.

Calla


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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 3/1/2010 11:45:07 AM   
atUrMercy


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Forgive me for saying it, but this just means that there are no super-super dominant women (or very,very few) for the doormats who are super-super submissives. Most dominant women want 50 % assertiveness and 50 % submissiveness. Too bad. Life is unfair.

< Message edited by atUrMercy -- 3/1/2010 11:46:02 AM >

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 3/1/2010 12:50:34 PM   
Voodali


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Given the two choices, I will select the one I can easily dominate.  The reason is that anyone I have to break in order to get him to submit is probably more of a pain in the ass than I need right now.
The other reason is that I am just not attracted to super alpha males.  They definitely come in handy when there's a crisis, but it is their more effeminate brethren who tend to make my chemicals flow.

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RE: Strong Alpha male subs v weak beta sissywimps - 3/3/2010 10:16:23 AM   
atUrMercy


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Hello Ma'am,
Good to know that there are dommes like you in the world . There is hope for us.

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