quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Overcoming the "Disease to Please"

The construct of this angle is still iffy.

It's like saying excessive trust is inherently a bad thing. The only thing that gives it a negative flavor is the degree to which a percentage of the rest of humanity assholes.

Obviously not everything that this sort of doormat would do would fall into the realm of "unhealthy" simply on the grounds that it's being done by a doormat.

How socially "bad" a doormat is is actually a reflection of his/her environment.

What is interesting is the morale of said doormats, I've been reading a number of articles that cover this. A number of elements that are indeed considered negatives in a BDSM D/s or M/s realtionship. Clearly some issues with boundaries in regards to being of sevice to many people. Perhaps, one could call a an Onwerless slave or a submissive without a dominant? There is much to be said regarding the self-esteem levels and the status of their own personal view of self. As somebody pointed out that perhaps the motivation should come into question here. However, clearly there is a problem in the establishment of heathly boundaries. The primary aim of such doormats is the establishment of Boundaries and the management of such. Hence the discipline aspects I mentioned previously, be this self discpline or the discpline of a D/s dynamic that is established and enforced. Still one must also call into question the motivations behind submission. To submitt out of Fear of displeasing or to submit out of desire to please. A negative motivation or a positive motivation.

With that said, perhaps this might explain why positive reinforcement works best for some D/s relationship and negative reinforcement works best for others? Perhaps with a certain degree mixed state motivation in submission, comes along with it mix of both positive and negative reinforcement. Then again, perhaps the opposite for what I just expressed holds true. However, is something to take into consideration. I have not empirical basis to draw any conclusions upon one way or another.

However, what is clear that in regards to one that has "Doormat Syndrom" there is a set of undesirables that are not considered nor generally deemed healthy for a D/s relationship.

This is why I expressed that a Doormat of this nature has the potential to become a beatiful submissive/slave. However, there are a set of negatives involved that must be properly addressed and dealt with.

None the less, the Doormat Syndrome/issue has been established, there are books and articles and lectures and etc.. things that can not be refuted that factor into the Doormat label and it's application here in BDSM land. If we are to embrace the term Doormat, we much embrace the full set of possible meanings and their implications. To be able to be effective in communicating difference and common meanings.

Still none the less, Ad Nausa to list of negatives. In order to over turn so many negatives, one would have to reshape the whole meaning of Doormat to be a positive thing. Including it's use when addressing Bullying and even in terms of Womens Liberations and many forces, movements and organizations.

At best we could seperate things as "Happy to be a Doormat" vs. "UnHappy to be a Doormat" such a concept could be established. In regards to Slavery, what sperates it from a negative is consensual vs. none consensual. This has given the society we live in a clear speration of how the word is used. However, there is no such distinction to made regarding doormat. In part this is due the passive nature of Doormats, the very same attribute that leads to passive aggressive behavior.

I would tend to say that the words slave or submissive should suffice, in expressing what the orientation of a person is in BDSM. However, with sub labels such as little girls and such being adopted. Perhaps, the adoptation of Doormats should be allowed. However unlike "Little Girls" (which adds a negative when people think of sexual age play, not to be confused with regressive age play, which is not to be confused with Daddy/littlegirl D/s dynamics). There is enough confusion regarding "little Girls" and "Daddy" that abides. The more labels that are adopted the more complex things will become, even rightly when the labels themselves carry strong negative connotations. Plus, unlike "little girls", "Doormat" as questionable ramifications regarding dehumanization if allowed inside the context of D/s relationships as opposed to an activitity? Should we elevate dehumanization into to a D/s dynamic itself?

At the moment dehumanization, for the most part is engaged at the activitity level, at least so it appears as such, based on limited empirical knowledge). It's not widely condoned for people to treat their partners as dehumanized Objects in the constructs of a D/s or M/s relationship. If anything it's more widely condoned to treat partners on a humanistic level. Remove the humanism from it and what do we risk?

I'm simply banging out these thoughts as they enter my head, stream of consious thought at the moment. Trying to be somewhat careful in thought, so that I can express what's going through my mind. However, I'm trying to be somewhat rational, logical and even objective or whatever label you wish to call it.

It's not my intention to add deflection or redirection, but rather provoke thoughts that challenge this issue, as I precieve it. To express exactly whatever is on my mind at the time I think it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

After 23 pages of opinions has any sort of concensus been reached. Either singular or plural?

I never did get the corelation between doormats and slaves. Unless the term is meant to humilate the poor girl. No mystery there: simple degradation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Great idea for another thead. Let's compare Dominants to control freaks. seems like the natual thing after comparing slaves to doormats.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Great idea for another thead. Let's compare Dominants to control freaks. seems like the natual thing after comparing slaves to doormats.


I think that would be an interesting topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Great idea for another thead. Let's compare Dominants to control freaks. seems like the natual thing after comparing slaves to doormats.


I think that would be an interesting topic.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease tell me you're joking

quote:

How bout a Jerry Springer show on doormats and the control freaks that love them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

I didnt participate much in this thread but was trying to keep an open mind about it.

I think the term is emotionally charged and was invented by the feminists rallying against the control freaks AND the doormats. (Correct Me if I am wrong). Those same fems would call My girl a doormat and Me a control freak. screw 'em.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I appreciate this post. Although you have stated in previous posts that you see the other side and possibilities..It seemed short lived.

This post takes into consideration  the multitude of variations that are possible..unless I'm so inebriated that I'm not reading the essence what it say correctly

Spell check is my friend...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19
Great idea for another thead. Let's compare Dominants to control freaks. seems like the natual thing after comparing slaves to doormats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
How bout a Jerry Springer show on doormats and the control freaks that love them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I appreciate this post. Although you have stated in previous posts that you see the other side and possibilities..It seemed short lived.

This post takes into consideration  the multitude of variations that are possible..unless I'm so inebriated that I'm not reading the essence what it say correctly

Spell check is my friend...

Damn, I should be getting a beer buzz on right now. Don't get me wrong I see other possibilities. I attempted to convey how in another post, and fear I failed at it. I do not treat all possibilities of equal value. Instead I work off from whatever merits (good/bad) and (true/false) and general probability that they hold true not in absolutes but in terms of a general percentage scale. This scale is use to compare things interally based upon established knowledge. As the more I progress though debate or critical thinking I will either interally higher or lesson the merit of a concept, thought or idea. I do not deal with absolutes nor do I engage in the equal treatment of arguments (relativism).

I instead subject an thought or idea to different ways or angles of thinking. Is it Aburb? Is it highly likely or unlikely given what I currently know. This is why I don't take stock in debates without people presenting thoughts or ideas for me to access. Simply attacking my current view or stance and calling crazy won't make me change my mind. If one wishes to challenge me, simply do what tazzygirl did. Toss out a perspective or side of the coin for me to look at. I run through it and see how it effects or readjusts my current argument or view. This is why my view shifted within the first 6 pages of this thread. You can blame it on TazzyGirl.

If one wishes to affect a change in my views, simply toss something out there, without engaging on a nit picking attack. In short don't try to force me to change my opinion, convince me to shift my opinion or view.

This is where you and I don't get along so well at times, because you tend to attack verse affect view. Going back into ancient history, RedMagic1 greatly affected people in a post he made on one thread. Trust me, there was some "I feel aweful about shit" going on to a degree on the back channels. However, you proceeded to attack people that were in a state of feeling bad, even though it feeling bad was admitted. However, your heavy handedness acually counter balanced out the affect that Redmagic1 none judgemental none attacking post had had truely upon people.

Again, this is where I believe, where you and I or you and other people tend to clash at times. Hell, you even admitted that you were used to being attacked or getting into things with other people.

I sincerely do enjoy when somebody can affect my views or thoughts upon things, I have not found you sincerely affecting me. It's actually been sort of frustrating, where literally it does feel a bit like strange snipper attacks. Why? Because it does not give me anything to seriously challenge my thought, and does not take into consideration that I'm being sincere in the thoughts I'm expressing.

Even more so when things such as blow up dolls and other not so fine comparitives are tossed into the mix of things. Those things do no nothing but provoke somebody to become on the defensive and I assure you that I tend to take on an offensive, instead of being passive about it. However, this is just the way that I am. I'm taking time to explain myself and how I processing information and thoughts inside my own head, so that you get a better understanding of me...

Other than that, I'd Raise up a beer and say "Cheers".

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

oh suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure!!!

blame the slutling!!

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19
Great idea for another thead. Let's compare Dominants to control freaks. seems like the natual thing after comparing slaves to doormats.


LOL... another topic of great debate! Fuck yah, I can be a control freak at times.

quote:

In all sincerely, one thing that did affect my view on the Doormat topic since 2007, was seeing the impact this word tends to have upon submissives. It made me stop and think perhaps it's a word to perhaps not give honor or credence to at all. Just based upon this fact alone. This is just from reading all the countless threads where it's reared up time and time again.

quote:

Very good point Whip. Next time a subbie complains about being a doormat tell 'er to read this thread... all 23 pages. That'il fix 'er.