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"Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 10:51:47 AM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		One of the stranger abiguities I see in people practicing bdsm is the feeling that a lot of justifications are being expoused to excuse a bent for kinky sex. From the sub side-"The devil (Dom)made me do it." And they can still wear the "good girl/boy" badges.

And from the other side-some sort of justification as a benevolent paternal figure?

Why do you think this need exists for so many-validation that they aren't "sick"?

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 10:52:47 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I was born and raised Catholic...... that makes ALL sex dirty!

it's a bonus if you ask me.


Jeff

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 11:13:59 AM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
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Status: offline 		Ummm... not really seeing it. If God didn't want me to be kinky, He wouldn't have made me wear that plaid skirt.

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 11:20:26 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

One of the stranger abiguities I see in people practicing bdsm is the feeling that a lot of justifications are being expoused to excuse a bent for kinky sex. From the sub side-"The devil (Dom)made me do it." And they can still wear the "good girl/boy" badges.


Yeah, not a turn on for me. Assert your inner pervert.

quote:

And from the other side-some sort of justification as a benevolent paternal figure?


Ewww. Ewww. Ewww. Ewww. Ewww.

quote:

Why do you think this need exists for so many-validation that they aren't "sick"?


It isn't just certain catholics who need to find excuses to justify their actions. They are fighting against what they were though to think.

- LA


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 11:46:09 AM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		Yes,this topic is more about conditioning and programming than anything else-and sneaky but lazy dodges around coming to terms with just finding that programming to be wrong.

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:00:16 PM   
maplepole


Posts: 10
Joined: 10/27/2009
Status: offline 		I came into this thread to find out what a catholic quilt was.  and left realizing I need glasses.


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:19:37 PM   
petmonkey


Posts: 1053
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		Rolling around in my head are thoughts about how people see the world in black/white, positive/negative, right/wrong terms and apply that to their own situation while including a desire to be heroic, innocent, just, righteous, (insert "good" adjective here).  There's also some notion floating around in my noggin about how people, rather than experiencing a fully developed paradigm shift while participating in whatever-it-is-they-do-do, try to overlay what they see as appropriate/right/positive concepts within their original world view framework instead.
Here's some example sentences (possible false or broken syllogisms): 
"I'm a virtuous person, benevolence is a virtue, therefore I am benevolent"
"I'm a mentally healthy individual, psychologists say this is abnormal behavior, therefore psychologists are wrong."
"I am a smart person, we just did something I find stupid, therefore I am with stupid."

It's not a fully-formed idea, it's why i wrote "rolling around in my head".  i'm fairly certain several people can, should and will call what i just wrote BS and give a logical statement why it is BS.  Maybe someone can develop this into something like a real idea, i dunno.

ETA: They might be unwilling or unable to entertain the idea that according to their origianl world view they might be <insert negative adjective or flaw> and that this may be a) something they have to accept b) something that will keep them from getting involved with BDSM or c) irrelevant in the face of a new cultural system.


< Message edited by petmonkey -- 3/3/2010 12:28:57 PM >

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:35:54 PM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

Yes,this topic is more about conditioning and programming than anything else-and sneaky but lazy dodges around coming to terms with just finding that programming to be wrong.


Speaking of lazy dodges... why don't you fill out your topic a bit with at least some anecdotes about your personal experience with "catholic guilt" and bdsm? Or explain why you're focusing on "catholic guilt" instead of "guilt" in general? Are catholics the only ones who are programmed, or are their dodges so sneaky and lazy they are deserving of particular attention?


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:39:45 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

Speaking of lazy dodges... why don't you fill out your topic a bit with at least some anecdotes about your personal experience with "catholic guilt" and bdsm? Or explain why you're focusing on "catholic guilt" instead of "guilt" in general? Are catholics the only ones who are programmed, or are their dodges so sneaky and lazy they are deserving of particular attention?



'Catholic guilt' is a commonly used phrase, denoting a particular flavour of guilt, relating to a deeply ingrained but not necessarily rational moral code.

Or at least it is in the UK...


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:41:19 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
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Status: offline 		I thought the champions in the guilt game were the Jews, VC ;-)

- LA


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:41:32 PM   
divi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I was born and raised Catholic...... that makes ALL sex dirty!

it's a bonus if you ask me.


Jeff


exactly what I was thinking !!

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:45:27 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
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From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I thought the champions in the guilt game were the Jews, VC ;-)

- LA



Nah, wrong kind of guilt. We're more famous for the mother-in-law emotional blackmail type guilt.

How many Jewish mother-in-laws does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, it's fine, it's fine, let me just sit in the dark since you never visit anyway, don't worry, I don't need to see...


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:47:46 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I thought the champions in the guilt game were the Jews, VC ;-)

- LA




Nah, wrong kind of guilt. We're more famous for the mother-in-law emotional blackmail type guilt.

How many Jewish mother-in-laws does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, it's fine, it's fine, let me just sit in the dark since you never visit anyway, don't worry, I don't need to see...

Bwah ha ha!!

- LA


< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 3/3/2010 12:48:03 PM >

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 12:57:23 PM   
Lucienne


Posts: 1175
Joined: 9/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

Speaking of lazy dodges... why don't you fill out your topic a bit with at least some anecdotes about your personal experience with "catholic guilt" and bdsm? Or explain why you're focusing on "catholic guilt" instead of "guilt" in general? Are catholics the only ones who are programmed, or are their dodges so sneaky and lazy they are deserving of particular attention?



'Catholic guilt' is a commonly used phrase, denoting a particular flavour of guilt, relating to a deeply ingrained but not necessarily rational moral code.

Or at least it is in the UK...



It's a commonly used phrase in the US, too. In reference to catholics. Someone who'd never been catholic wouldn't claim to suffer from catholic guilt. I'm afraid I must take up arms if semantic drift is going to attempt to draw all not necessarily rational guilt under the banner of catholicism. ;)  It's particularly odd in the realm of sexuality. American catholics, at least, have no problem just ignoring the Church and engaging in all manner of non-procreative sex. In the eyes of the Pope, using birth control is the moral equivalent of engaging in a big ol bdsm orgy. Off the top of my head, there's an enormous number of bdsm practices that are easily reconciled with Church teachings (and certainly history) in a way that something as vanilla as a couple of single co-eds using a condom doing it missionary style can't be.

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 1:03:51 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucienne

It's a commonly used phrase in the US, too. In reference to catholics. Someone who'd never been catholic wouldn't claim to suffer from catholic guilt.


That isn't the case in England-people accuse me of suffering from Catholic guilt all the time (in a comic way).

quote:

I'm afraid I must take up arms if semantic drift is going to attempt to draw all not necessarily rational guilt under the banner of catholicism. ;)


Too late, I reckon-it's an expression in common usage. People know what it means, and as an abbreviation it's much shorter than 'deeply ingrained irrational guilt'.

quote:

It's particularly odd in the realm of sexuality. American catholics, at least, have no problem just ignoring the Church and engaging in all manner of non-procreative sex. In the eyes of the Pope, using birth control is the moral equivalent of engaging in a big ol bdsm orgy. Off the top of my head, there's an enormous number of bdsm practices that are easily reconciled with Church teachings (and certainly history) in a way that something as vanilla as a couple of single co-eds using a condom doing it missionary style can't be.


To be fair, the words "Catholic guilt" in the title are in inverted commas. You may well have a point. But it doesn't change the fact that the OP's choice of words is fair usage of a common saying-Catholics weren't being picked on, as far as I could see...


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 1:56:47 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		You suffer form Cof E guilt.

And your excommunication too...... ouch... thats gotta hurt!


Jeff

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 2:02:40 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

You suffer form Cof E guilt.

And your excommunication too...... ouch... thats gotta hurt!


Jeff


CofE don't do guilt! lol

And you can't be excommunicated if you weren't communicated in the first place-do they let anteaters take communion?


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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 2:03:48 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		I have pretty much rejected most social programming to do with sexual mores frm a very early age. I saw through the bullshit with the Easter bunny and Santa Claus at about age five or so-the other children were not amused with me over that.

In fact,the idea and practice of subverting commonly held "truths" have always been one of my greatest delights in life-you just have to be careful who you try it with.

I used catholic guilt as a generic term,yes. I guess I just find it amusing that so many practicioners seem to feel they are so free by doing bdsm-and then turn around and try to impose these same tired old mores on the rest of us? But still call themselves "progressive", because they swat a hiney or two?

How strange.

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 2:04:58 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Anteaters don't kneel!

<---------------- Look at that picture? Does that Anteater look like it would KNEEL?


Fuck No!


Jeffwey

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RE: "Catholic guilt" and bdsm? - 3/3/2010 2:07:06 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Anteaters don't kneel!

<---------------- Look at that picture? Does that Anteater look like it would KNEEL?


Fuck No!


Jeffwey


Frankly, that anteater looks like it is strung up, tied and helpless on an invisible St Andrews cross.
IMHO, obviously...


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