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RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/1/2006 8:20:34 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetpleaser

Hi Taggard, it's been a long time. I love these debates. But can I ask one itty bitty naive question? Why do these men want to be castrated? Is it to feminize themselves? Just curious.

Quite honestly, I have no fucking idea why these guys want to be castrated. It is not my kink, and it really dosn't appeal to me in any fasion. Yet, I feel for these guys, and I have been called sick for the things I persue. I would indeed fight for their right to do with their bodies what they want, if for no other reason than I can do with my body, and with the bodies of those I play with, what I want.

I think MizSuz might be able to offer much more insight into the mind of the submissive male than I..as it is I tend to focus on the female submissive mindset...and I am a bit drunk at this point anyway. *smile*

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to sweetpleaser)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/1/2006 8:25:04 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
and just because i am a consenting adult this is ok, why?

Because you are a consenting adult. Do you really want the govenrment to nanny you? Should the majority decide what is ok for you to do? Well...if that is really what you want, perhaps you should check yourself into an institution and let them make all your decisions for you...

Me, however, I like to make my own choices...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to angelic)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 12:09:52 AM

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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I could really care less if a guy gets his balls cut off(if sane, which is a big question). Now, that being said I really don't think just anyone should be able to do surgery on anybody they want. For one training aside I doubt this guy had all the necessary equipment, drugs, blood, etc.. necessary if something did go wrong. Two the legal ramifications would be disturbing, so if all was required was consent, then what's to stop parents from giving consent to get their kids hacked on by some demented guy with a fetish. So, it really begs the question in this world were consent is the only requirement for anything who would give consent for kids, mentally ill, or those not in a position to make such decisions.

It's a simplistic argument to say all that should be required is adult consent. So, in that world were only consent is required well, nothing is off limits. Bizarre, I really don't want to see my 400 lb neighbor fingering his ass in his front yard.(oh I see you still want that law in place). Well, he consented did it on his propery, and the government can't tell a adult what to do. Well, let's loan each other our unmentionables while we're at it. Fun, Fun, Fun. Right. Hey, the parents gave consent, well that's all that's needed in consent land right.(Oh you want that law in place to). The retarded guy down the street said I could borrow his head. Fuck were's the knife.(Oh you want that one to). The lady with alzheimers wrote me a check for her life savings (oh you want that one to I see). The lady down the street just lost her husband of 40 years and is saying she wants to die to. This is going to be fun(where'd I put that shotgun). Later tonight there is going to be human flesh dining at the canabalism club. Fuck they consented it's alright.

Well, that's consent land. Oh okay now everyone is going to qualify that consent is only needed but in x, y, and z situations consent is never a justification. Hmmm, sounds like the current system to me.

So, basicly people just want to have the right to do what they want to do, and don't want others to have rights they don't want themselves. Wow, the injustice of the world, hacks can't legally cut balls off humans.

The consent argument, is completely unrealistic, to point of making santa claus look plausible.

It's really called anarchy. Anarchy despite all the fantasy doesn't work at all. Sorry. Unless you want to do all those types of things 99.9% of people would agree once they think about it shouldn't be legal. Some laws are debatable but that is another thing. Saying consent is a universal qualifier for doing anything. Is completely wrong.

(in reply to SpaceForMore)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 3:23:37 AM

Posts: 121
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline

Okay, while I can't even pretend to comprehend the thought process behind wanting to be castrated (my testicles being some of my favorite parts), where can we realisticly draw the line between healthy and sick? Many people argue that piercings and particularly genital piercings are wrong. The arguement typically follows the line of "'god' designed us just how we are, who are we to alter that?". And I contend that 'god' is not external, 'god' is something that we are all a part of. So it is my right as a facet of the divine to alter my physical body in any way that I see fit.

So some guy wants his nuggets chopped off? If he is a consenting adult, who are we to decide right and wrong for him? By legal definition, a consenting adult is somebody who's over the age of 18, free from mental handicap, not suffering from mental illness, or under extreme stress from a traumatic life experience.

The arguement of medical malpractice falls apart due to the fact that these gentlemen were not claiming to treat any illness or injury. They were performing body modifications, the same as a piercer or tattoo artist. Many people in the BDSM community pierce, brand, corsett, cut, and suture each other, and these activities are not conducted as any sort of treatment. Should such activities performed on and by consenting adults also be prosecuted as practicing medicine without a license?

Should evidence surface that these guys were seeking out or accepting subjects who were minors, handicapped, unbalanced, or traumatized, they should be prosecuted for agrevated assault. But it doesn't look like that's the case, indeed, it seems none of the persons modified have even come forward.

The major issue here as I see it, is just how much authority do you want to grant your government towards regulating what you can and cannot do? I for one do not want me or my play partners prosecuted for the things we do in consenting play. To me, the only acceptable place to draw the line is on the issue of informed consent. If informed consent exists, the government should butt the fuck out of our business.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 8:42:15 AM

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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Hi Taggard!

As far as I see it these guys had their own nuts lopped off nobody else’s. They consented to this it was not by force.
Some could argue they were doing natures work via Darwinism since people that castrate themselves wont reproduce.
What we find sick is a matter of taste mostly.
Whatever it’s sane or not is another question but if these guys wanted to be castrated they were not naive about this (if they were at their age it would be astounding).
As weird and funny as this story is at times (when your Dr has a mullet you know you’re in trouble) the guys were not forced.
It may seem wrong it may seem sick to some people but the guys got what they wanted.

(in reply to NickInSLC)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 8:50:36 AM

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL:
It's a simplistic argument to say all that should be required is adult consent. So, in that world were only consent is required well, nothing is off limits. Bizarre, I really don't want to see my 400 lb neighbor fingering his ass in his front yard.(oh I see you still want that law in place). Well, he consented did it on his propery, and the government can't tell a adult what to do. Well, let's loan each other our unmentionables while we're at it. Fun, Fun, Fun. Right. Hey, the parents gave consent, well that's all that's needed in consent land right.(Oh you want that law in place to). The retarded guy down the street said I could borrow his head. Fuck were's the knife.(Oh you want that one to). The lady with alzheimers wrote me a check for her life savings (oh you want that one to I see). The lady down the street just lost her husband of 40 years and is saying she wants to die to. This is going to be fun(where'd I put that shotgun). Later tonight there is going to be human flesh dining at the canabalism club. Fuck they consented it's alright.

Damn where do you live? I want to live there!!!!!!
Is it a gated community because I don’t want my car broke into!
And the cannibal thing is it bring your own bottle I hear they have trouble getting liquor licenses? you need a tie to get in?
kidding..a joke etc

400 lb neighbor fingering his ass in his front yard I will report to the HOA thats just wrong!!!

< Message edited by mantis65 -- 4/2/2006 8:55:30 AM >

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 11:53:08 AM

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NickInSLC

So some guy wants his nuggets chopped off? If he is a consenting adult, who are we to decide right and wrong for him? By legal definition, a consenting adult is somebody who's over the age of 18, free from mental handicap, not suffering from mental illness, or under extreme stress from a traumatic life experience.

If wanting your nuts cut off isn't a indicator of a mental illness, I'm hard pressed to think of anything that would fall into that category.

Regardless, my whole rant was based on the continual theme that only adult consent is required to make something okay. When in fact everyone has a myriad of things they would like to remain illegal even when consent is given. In addition I'm not sure why people automatically assume the participants weren't mentally ill, anyway. It's just as likely than not. But the presumption, is they are sane. When in reality, how many sane people have you encountered that wanted body parts removed, well just because they don't like them. Further, if the presumption is sanity equals the right to consent. Why is it presumed these ball snatchers(hehe), are qualified to judge anothers mental state. I really don't get why anyone would support completely unqualified people given the right to hack on people, without any certifications. Bizarre.

(in reply to NickInSLC)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 12:11:07 PM

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mantis65

quote:

ORIGINAL:
It's a simplistic argument to say all that should be required is adult consent. So, in that world were only consent is required well, nothing is off limits. Bizarre, I really don't want to see my 400 lb neighbor fingering his ass in his front yard.(oh I see you still want that law in place). Well, he consented did it on his propery, and the government can't tell a adult what to do. Well, let's loan each other our unmentionables while we're at it. Fun, Fun, Fun. Right. Hey, the parents gave consent, well that's all that's needed in consent land right.(Oh you want that law in place to). The retarded guy down the street said I could borrow his head. Fuck were's the knife.(Oh you want that one to). The lady with alzheimers wrote me a check for her life savings (oh you want that one to I see). The lady down the street just lost her husband of 40 years and is saying she wants to die to. This is going to be fun(where'd I put that shotgun). Later tonight there is going to be human flesh dining at the canabalism club. Fuck they consented it's alright.

Damn where do you live? I want to live there!!!!!!
Is it a gated community because I don’t want my car broke into!
And the cannibal thing is it bring your own bottle I hear they have trouble getting liquor licenses? you need a tie to get in?
kidding..a joke etc

400 lb neighbor fingering his ass in his front yard I will report to the HOA thats just wrong!!!

hehe, I was on a roll.

(in reply to mantis65)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 12:25:54 PM

Posts: 121
Joined: 8/9/2005
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Like I said before, many people would use that same arguement against me wanting to be pierced or branded. In fact, many people argue that no sane person would want to do the things that many of us kinky people do. If we use our ability to sympathise with the desires of another as the litmus test for those things being right or wrong, we're all in trouble.

If we decide that these guys are sick, then it's just a matter of degrees to say that I'm sick because I want to be pierced, or that you're sick because you have a tattoo, or that somebody else is sick because they like to get flogged, or tied up, or assfucked.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Neuticles - 4/2/2006 1:56:55 PM

Posts: 415
Joined: 9/9/2004
From: Denver
Status: offline

I play with someone who's heavily into body mod and we've seriously discussed implanting ball chimes into his scrotal sac. He wants something heavy in there, and I want something that makes subtle sounds. We need to research materials or possible coatings to make sure his body won't reject them short-term or long-term.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

wow... I'm not sure if I am more surprised at this article, or finding out from my veterinarian friend that some people use Neuticles to make their male dogs appear "intact" so the dogs won't miss their balls after being fixed.

Bizarre...

(in reply to Daddysredhead)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 4:19:02 PM

Posts: 456
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

i was joking around with you A bit

but for some unknown reason to me these guys wanted to lose their nuts…. to me that not a good idea. But it’s all point of view my mother would probably have a heart attack from the idea in 24/7 D/s and slavery etc.

its hard to judge others choices no matter how bizarre when you (I) harbor a few of your own.

Again I was making joke didn’t mean to offend (if i did)i thought your post was funny

On side I think they should be allowed to modify their bodies into abstract shapes if that’s what they want but the other part of me says if it was me no friggen way.
As far as what’s sane or not I don’t know I am an artist and most of what I do to be successful is based on a controlled insanity

Just for the record I like my nuts and think choping them off is a bad thing

cannibal role play sounds….. Fun….. Real murder and death has all those legal consequences not to mention guilt I don’t need.

I think these guys should be allowed to chop of their nuts but I personally don’t think its a good idea.

< Message edited by mantis65 -- 4/2/2006 4:33:20 PM >

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 4:37:37 PM

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I liked the quote about regardless of consent this is a case of unlicensed people performing medical acts. I agree.

Fantasy or no fantasy, shouldn't we at least respect ourselves enough to do things as safely as possible?

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(in reply to SpaceForMore)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 10:21:49 PM

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From: None of your business
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I know you were joking. I wasn't offended. Thanks

(in reply to mantis65)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 10:26:26 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
If wanting your nuts cut off isn't a indicator of a mental illness, I'm hard pressed to think of anything that would fall into that category.

So, in your estimnation, every pre and post op male transexual is mentally ill? That's quite an enlighted opinion you got there...

quote:

I really don't get why anyone would support completely unqualified people given the right to hack on people, without any certifications. Bizarre.

Perhaps it is because we are not convinced that those doing the certifications really have our best interests at heart. But you might not get that...

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 10:30:38 PM

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NickInSLC

Like I said before, many people would use that same arguement against me wanting to be pierced or branded. In fact, many people argue that no sane person would want to do the things that many of us kinky people do. If we use our ability to sympathise with the desires of another as the litmus test for those things being right or wrong, we're all in trouble.

If we decide that these guys are sick, then it's just a matter of degrees to say that I'm sick because I want to be pierced, or that you're sick because you have a tattoo, or that somebody else is sick because they like to get flogged, or tied up, or assfucked.

Yes, it's true it's all a matter of degrees. To me anyway, it's clearly different, to superficially design your body. As in tattoo, or scarring, as that is more or less just surface decoration. Whereas what these guys were doing was several degrees more severe, as in entering the body, and removing body parts necessary for normal functioning. Scarring, body mods, and tattoos for the vast majority don't include removing organs. It's like comparing painting your car(tats,most mods, and scarring, to removing the transmission. One will have no long term impact on your body funtioning correctly, while the other definitely does. Plus, if we agree that only the sane can make such life altering decisions, such as removing your balls, I still don't believe just anybody can make that judgement. So, the government will still have to be involved to decide mental health. If not the government then who, hopefully not just anybody.

(in reply to NickInSLC)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 10:39:56 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
So, the government will still have to be involved to decide mental health. If not the government then who, hopefully not just anybody.

Just who do you think "the government" is? Do you really have so much faith in the all-knowing, wise and benevolent government?

Have you ever seen CSPAN? Most of the people in congress couldn't logically think their way out of a wet paper sack.

(Beware, rather high level philosophical/political ideas to follow.)

The reality of life is that there is no "government." There are just people. Some people act like they are in charge...others give credence to the act by also acting like they are in charge. "Government" is really just a lot of people pretending things. Anarchy is what reality is...no matter what we tell ourselves to get to sleep at night.

Personally, I am not interested in anyone telling me what I can or can not do. (I put up with their nonsense, mostly because they have guns, and people tend not to make a fuss when those who pretend they are in charge use their guns.)

You, however, seem to have bought into the fiction...but it's never to late to peer behind the curtain.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 10:44:17 PM

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From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
If wanting your nuts cut off isn't a indicator of a mental illness, I'm hard pressed to think of anything that would fall into that category.

So, in your estimnation, every pre and post op male transexual is mentally ill? That's quite an enlighted opinion you got there...

quote:

I really don't get why anyone would support completely unqualified people given the right to hack on people, without any certifications. Bizarre.

Perhaps it is because we are not convinced that those doing the certifications really have our best interests at heart. But you might not get that...

Taggard

I saw no indication in the article that the goal of the nut removal was for a sex change. If that were the case it would be a gross oversite not to mention it. As stated the article read as the only purpose was to remove the participants nuts. In that case yes, I'd say removing a body part without having a purpose is mental.

As far as the certifications goes, I don't universally trust all doctors, but at least they know what the hell they are talking about, have access to necessary medical equipment, and oversite to ensure the premises are clean, and handle complications. And the threat there license could be removed if they are proved to be incompetent. So, it's really not in the interest of the doctor to intentionally screw you, as it could mean there license, cost them money, etc.... If you have such fears of doctors, well, please go get your surgery at the local bdsm club. I can't wait to see the results. As shown in the article there are plenty willing to take the legal risk and cut you up. Have Fun!!! It's seems you'd think it was just fine for anyone to be able to set up shop and offer surgeries.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 10:57:07 PM

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou
So, the government will still have to be involved to decide mental health. If not the government then who, hopefully not just anybody.

Just who do you think "the government" is? Do you really have so much faith in the all-knowing, wise and benevolent government?

Have you ever seen CSPAN? Most of the people in congress couldn't logically think their way out of a wet paper sack.

(Beware, rather high level philosophical/political ideas to follow.)

The reality of life is that there is no "government." There are just people. Some people act like they are in charge...others give credence to the act by also acting like they are in charge. "Government" is really just a lot of people pretending things. Anarchy is what reality is...no matter what we tell ourselves to get to sleep at night.

Personally, I am not interested in anyone telling me what I can or can not do. (I put up with their nonsense, mostly because they have guns, and people tend not to make a fuss when those who pretend they are in charge use their guns.)

You, however, seem to have bought into the fiction...but it's never to late to peer behind the curtain.

Taggard

So, you're a anarchist. Just like I said in my original post. If you don't believe anyone is more qualified than you on any topic. Well, you must also be God. I apologize, for making the ascertion that someone who studies about one particular thing for 8 years or more might know more than someone who gets a hard on cutting off random peoples nuts.

Now, am I fan of government, No. Am I fan of the medical profession. No. But that doesn't mean I'm going to condone just anybody and everybody having the right to do surgeries without consequence. Whatever, how you draw that one is either a Government lapdog or on your side condoning no regulations is beyond me. There is a huge middle ground there.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 11:15:43 PM

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From: P'burgh PA
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I've had many cucks approach Me with this same request and its possibility further along the line within a cuckold relationship. While I may understand their logical intent and reasoning behind it; I don't necessarily agree with it but I'm not about to judge them over their desire to do so. As consenting adults how is it any different from any other form of body mods be it tattoos, piercings, brandings or gender reassignment? Orchiodectomy is a part of sex change operations, the same thing is being done medically by a consenting adult when changing from male to female...is that wrong as well? Who exactly is it hurting? Perhaps they attempted to do so under a perfectly legal and above board setting and when refused repeatedly by licensed medical doctors they were forced to go beyond the lines of legality in order to accomplish the body modification they desired. No one at this point knows the entire story. What I find interesting is that performing a consentual castration is a felony and yet performing medical procedures without a license is a misdemeanor!

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She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

RE: Three men charged in 'dungeon' castration - 4/2/2006 11:42:17 PM

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From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

I've had many cucks approach Me with this same request and its possibility further along the line within a cuckold relationship. While I may understand their logical intent and reasoning behind it; I don't necessarily agree with it but I'm not about to judge them over their desire to do so. As consenting adults how is it any different from any other form of body mods be it tattoos, piercings, brandings or gender reassignment? Orchiodectomy is a part of sex change operations, the same thing is being done medically by a consenting adult when changing from male to female...is that wrong as well? Who exactly is it hurting? Perhaps they attempted to do so under a perfectly legal and above board setting and when refused repeatedly by licensed medical doctors they were forced to go beyond the lines of legality in order to accomplish the body modification they desired. No one at this point knows the entire story. What I find interesting is that performing a consentual castration is a felony and yet performing medical procedures without a license is a misdemeanor!

Who is it hurting? Potentially no one, Potentially the man laying dead on your kitchen table.

Here's the point, unless you studied the human anatomy intensely for 8 years(college) or more, judged your knowledge against others claiming a high level of knowledge in a standardized manner(Tests). And have practical supervised experience doing the procedure(internship). As well, as have immediate access to the necessary equipment needed to treat the patient if complications arise(hospital). Then the fact is you are more likely to accidently screw up and injure or kill your patient than having the procedure done by a certified doctor in a proper environment. I'm sorry a surgeon will know more about surgery than a BDSM kinkster unless he's also a surgeon.

Hey, if it's worth it for the subbie, then he will find a way to do it. But the fact remains doing anything in a household kitchen, by unqualified people, lacking needed equipment is dangerous compared to doing the exact same procedure in a hospital. I'd say it speaks more of the dommes/Doms lack of character ultimately than the subs.

(in reply to SDFemDom4cuck)

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