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What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 10:46:36 AM   
PrincessAnne


Posts: 5
Joined: 9/7/2004
Status: offline 		Hi, I've been wondering... I know that financial domination and such tends to be a topic that most people have a very strong reaction to, usually in the negative. I was curious as to why. Why is it that a Domme can have a sub or slave clean her house, buy her groceries, etc. and it is considered to be done in the name of humiliation or punishment or whatever the reason, but the minute money is brought into the equation she is considered lazy? If there are men (and even some women) who like being dominated in this way, and it is consensual, how is this any different than any other fetish? I don't want to make anyone angry, I am just curious.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Anne
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 10:56:16 AM   
strongnsubmissiv


Posts: 197
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		Well for me PrincessAnne... financial domination in a real life relationship is fine, in fact, i'd almost prefer and expect my Domme would want it this way. Where i get up in arms about it, is where faceless cyber Dommes bequeath they demand this from men they have absolutely no inention of meeting or starting a real life relationship with.

It's those "self professed Dommes" that i take issue with, that are doing nothing but bilking money out of well intentioned and often confused submissive men.

Sheesh, even my current vanilla relationship has me handing over my earnings completely, letting her pay the bills and dole out a bit of an allowance for me. She's better with money so why not let her handle it?

sns

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*** Strong and submissive are not contradictions ***

(in reply to PrincessAnne)
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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 11:13:17 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

how is this any different than any other fetish?


Because it makes people uncomfortable. Simple as that. And when people are uncomfortable with something, even though it doesn’t impact them in the slightest (same-sex marriage for instance), they tend to make a fuss about it.

My feeling is that people who harp about such things either a) have been burned by a money Domme and are bitter about it, and in this case their rant is legitimate or b) have nothing better to do with their time then to pre-occupy themselves with other people’s business and really like to complain.

I once spoke to a man who was into money Dommes to find out what the attraction was for him. He said that he had a lot of money, more then he could spend on himself because he didn’t have that much need for luxury, and he loved the idea of spoiling a woman and making her happy by making sure she has all the affinities of life. He adored the idea that if she had a little extra cash to get a pedicure, a facial, buy a new pair of shoes, she would be happy and that in turn completed him.

He also saw money as power often associated with men and saw him giving up his money to her as a form of giving up his power.

Now these aren’t my kinks. But I can respect them for being his. He has spent a lot of time thinking about this and in the end, it puts a big ol’ grin on his face. His motivation or psychological profile should not be of my concern unless I was to be involved with him.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 12:24:04 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessAnne
. Why is it that a Domme can have a sub or slave clean her house, buy her groceries, etc. and it is considered to be done in the name of humiliation or punishment or whatever the reason, but the minute money is brought into the equation she is considered lazy?



I think it all comes down to Intent. Is your intent to be lazy, or is your sub intending to spoil and pamper you, and assist you in making your life easier. Are you demanding the payment, or is the sub willingly offering it.

I have had many men offer me presents and gifts, Of which I gladly accepted. One of my dearest is a motorcycle that was gifted to me by someone who knew of my love of riding, and knew I was unable to just go drop a few grand on a bike for myself. So for a birthday present he gifted me with a bike of my own. Now he had alternative meaning for his gift. He wanted me to spend more time riding with him, and of course I obliged happily. There were no strings attached, but I ended up cherishing the bike and him for gifting it to me even more. I never asked for or demanded any such thing. To me that is a big deal. .INTENT.

I don't know many woman or men who don't like gifts or presents. Asking for them in my view is tacky, however I don't see a problem with letting people know what your needs or wants are should they want to provide for them. It is like the list you make as a kid for santa.. you don't expect to get it all, but it sure is nice when you do.

In the vanilla realm many couples ask for things. Heck my sisterin law circles all items she likes in catalogs and writes down her size and color pref by it, so my brother never has an excuse for not knowing what to get her when it comes to gift giving occassions.

Gift giving should come from the heart, never been demanded, but should always be cherished and apprieciated. Most subs I know love to know they have made you happy and pleased you. If its a litte trinket or a big one, a household chore, or a bill being paid, if it is offered freely then I see no problem with it, and find it to be endearing. If there is a real time relationship the Dom/me has every write to expect a portion of subs earnings. If it is NOT a real realitionship and it is being DEMANDED and creates a hardship on the submissive. In my opinion it is NOT COOL!.

I will add this note, If a sub offers a gift or money to a Dom/me that he or she knows will cause them to suffer hardship, ( Emphasis on the word KNOWS).. then he or she is not of high caliber in my opinion. Yours may vary.

Ms.Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to PrincessAnne)
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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 1:01:58 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

He adored the idea that if she had a little extra cash to get a pedicure, a facial, buy a new pair of shoes, she would be happy and that in turn completed him.

hmmmm . . . I wonder if he had an ex-wife, and if he would cum when writing alimony checks.

< Message edited by happypervert -- 9/12/2004 1:02:49 PM >

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 1:14:05 PM   
MaitresseEden


Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline
quote:


hmmmm . . . I wonder if he had an ex-wife, and if he would cum when writing alimony checks.



If that is the case the IRS gave me a mind blowing Orgasm last year.

<couldn't resist>

Ms. Eden.

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 1:18:18 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

quote:

He adored the idea that if she had a little extra cash to get a pedicure, a facial, buy a new pair of shoes, she would be happy and that in turn completed him.

hmmmm . . . I wonder if he had an ex-wife, and if he would cum when writing alimony checks.


Cute. I think the whole point of my post and of the eloquent Eden's is that people should never feel obliged to do such a thing but if it makes them happy to give, then why not? I so agree with Eden that asking for a gift is tacky. The whole idea is keeping a clear head about it and intentions.

I’ve received really sweet tokens of appreciation, anything from a bottle of perfume to opera tickets to toys to fine lingerie & shoes (where my taste gets *really* expensive). In all those cases, the person giving the gift got a lot of enjoyment out of it too. I *personally* would not have appreciated the gift as much if the person had cut me a cheque. *I* would have felt cheap.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 10:22:19 PM   
LadyShoshin


Posts: 492
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Burlington, Ontario
Status: offline 		I don't have a problem with it if it is consensual. I agree that Dommes who never intend meeting the sub and have found a cash cow give the rest of us a bad name.

If I was 24/7 with a sub and he wanted to sign over his paycheque to me, I would set up an account in his name. After taking out 1/2 the rent and 1/2 of joint bills and groceries, the rest of his cheque would go into the account. I would keep receipts for the money that was spent from his cheque. That way, should there be a parting, he has the money accumulated in the account to get a new start and the receipts showing where the rest of it went. That is just my own personal ethical take on it.

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PHLOX: “It’s unethical for a doctor to cause harm...I can inflict as much pain as I like.”

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 10:33:06 PM   
dixiedumpling


Posts: 456
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: southeast Mississippi
Status: offline 		From purely a sub's point of view, it looks like you're asking the sub to pay for your attention, services, etc.

If someone gives you a gift, it is by defination of their own free will. They want you to have it because they like you, because you did something nice for them and they are, in a way, paying you back. But to demand that someone give you a "gift", that isn't a gift. It's highway robbery.

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Toodles,
dixiedumpling

My mind is no place to play alone. Anna Pigeon as written by Nevada Barr

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/12/2004 10:36:41 PM   
Evadon


Posts: 7
Joined: 9/12/2004
Status: offline 		Nothing is wrong with it as long a the sub is willing and the master/mistress is compasionate to the subs well being.

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 9:01:06 AM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		In another recent thread someone brought up an interesting point, related to this.

If it's ok for the male sub to pick up the tab, give gifts, etc. Why is it different when it's a female sub and a male Dom. I think the whole thing is based on old double standards. Has any female sub given her Dom gifts, picked up the tab, etc? Or do they feel that is his job?

I've given gifts to men I dated. But, more often it went the other way. In my case I just don't have money to spend on extras. If I did I would likely go dutch more often. I LIKE being the one who pays. Of course I enjoy being treated but there really is a nice little power to being the one who pays.

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 9:49:51 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		The way I believe the Dominant should help the submissive to grow, flourish. When you strip them of all of their money you are doing just the opposite.
Is that then indeed a Dominant or an abuser? Or a lazy person as some have pointed out?
Do they have the best interests of the submissive in mind? Or just their own best interest?

I can see in a committed relationship you are a team. Yet, how many good relationships out there do you see that a single person hands over all of their money to the other? Usually it goes into a cheking account that both share. Therefore you have access to your money.
Also, what is going to motivate me to go out and make more money if I never get to see any of it? Just some ungrateful person taking it from me. I get zero in return. What service are they providing to me for my money? Watching the kids? Taking full care of the house? Relationships are equal and consentual. Even in lifestyle ones. We all have our certain tasks. No matter what they are. When one is doing it all, it just won't last long at all.

That is my opinion anyway.

(in reply to PrincessAnne)
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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 10:40:59 AM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Well, just my own experience. I have gifted my submissives with toys on occassion. When I insisted on a specific eatery and particularly on a first meet, I pay the tab (smile, but I do let them leave the tip), and when going to an event of my chosing, I pay their way if they are unable. It also depends on their ability to afford whatever that makes my decision, along with if they would ENJOY paying and won't go without a necessity of life.
Of course I accept gifts, I think male dominants do too. I know of a few Doms who have shown me things made, or given to them by their submissives. In addition to intent, I believe ability to pay is an important part of the scenerio. Sundew

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 12:03:46 PM   
ShadowHwk


Posts: 158
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessAnne

Hi, I've been wondering... I know that financial domination and such tends to be a topic that most people have a very strong reaction to, usually in the negative. I was curious as to why. Why is it that a Domme can have a sub or slave clean her house, buy her groceries, etc. and it is considered to be done in the name of humiliation or punishment or whatever the reason, but the minute money is brought into the equation she is considered lazy? If there are men (and even some women) who like being dominated in this way, and it is consensual, how is this any different than any other fetish? I don't want to make anyone angry, I am just curious.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Anne


It seems pretty simple to me. The idea leaves exactly the same nasty taste in my mouth as wannabe doms who expect to live in their slave's house, and not work while the slave provides for them. There is a large difference between use and abuse.

I see it as one person taking advantage of another. The Domme requires financial tribute; the sub/slave pays it – not because he/she has a financial fetish but because he or she wants the attention of the Domme. In particular I have a real issue with those who are “online only” Dommes and have no intention of adding anything of value to the life of the sub/slave from whom they have garnered tribute.

That being said, should a Domme actually have a career/job/other means of financial support AND the tribute is mostly symbolic – then that is a much different thing. Gifts are appropriate. Also if the sub/slave truly has a financial fetish (and I am betting those that do are few and far between) and the Domme can figure out a way to feed that fetish without putting the financial welfare of the sub/slave at risk (one possibility that comes to mind is to put the money into an account for the sub/slave to be returned if/when the relationship terminates) - then go for it.

When I first joined collar me, I confronted one of the “so called” Domme’s about her advertising for “Money Slaves”. Her response was along the lines of a justification and it went something like this: “Who are you to judge me? You don’t know how hard it is here for a single woman.” This tells me one thing – she didn’t have a financial fetish – she wanted a free ride – big difference. My response to her? *laugh* "Get off your ass and get a job."

Peace and Light
Terry
.

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 12:34:50 PM   
NoCalOwner


Posts: 241
Status: offline 		For thousands of years, slaves have worked for owners, and owners have paid all of the slave's living expenses. In the case of domestic slaves, for example, the owner almost always did so at a loss. But the slaves brought honor, pleasure and ease to the owner, so they were often well treated despite the financial burden. In the case of the Roman Empire, many domestic slaves had higher standards of living than the lower classes of free citizens. During the Ottoman Empire, all slaves were paid at least a small stipend, and some, like the Viziers and Sultanas, received compensation of what would now be close to $200,000/yr. The Koran says that slaves should eat and dress as well as their owner, and while the Sultan, like most mortals, fell short of the ideal, he certainly ensured that they were fed, clothed, housed, and had some spending money.

In a limited D/s relationship, I can understand how a Dom/me would not want to pay their submissive's living expenses, but that goes both ways.

< Message edited by NoCalOwner -- 9/13/2004 12:38:16 PM >

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 2:46:58 PM   
ShadowHwk


Posts: 158
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NoCalOwner

For thousands of years, slaves have worked for owners, and owners have paid all of the slave's living expenses. In the case of domestic slaves, for example, the owner almost always did so at a loss. But the slaves brought honor, pleasure and ease to the owner, so they were often well treated despite the financial burden. In the case of the Roman Empire, many domestic slaves had higher standards of living than the lower classes of free citizens. During the Ottoman Empire, all slaves were paid at least a small stipend, and some, like the Viziers and Sultanas, received compensation of what would now be close to $200,000/yr. The Koran says that slaves should eat and dress as well as their owner, and while the Sultan, like most mortals, fell short of the ideal, he certainly ensured that they were fed, clothed, housed, and had some spending money.

In a limited D/s relationship, I can understand how a Dom/me would not want to pay their submissive's living expenses, but that goes both ways.


I'm not sure what this has to do with the question of financial domination, and to be honest I am not sure what it has to do with my post - care to clarify?

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 5:12:52 PM   
NoCalOwner


Posts: 241
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShadowHwk
I'm not sure what this has to do with the question of financial domination, and to be honest I am not sure what it has to do with my post - care to clarify?


Yeah, I'm just agreeing with the way you're questioning the whole financial domination thing, but from a different angle. I know that plenty of people seem to go along with the idea, I have friends that have been or currently are professional dominants, yet it still seems unnatural to me.

I know that my slave submitted to me because she respected a number of things about me, one of which was having the abilities needed to generate a reasonable amount of income. I have a very hard time imagining myself being financially dependent on subs. Guess I'm getting old & fixed in my ways or something...

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 5:26:33 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Everyone has the right to his or her opinion. My opinion is very much like NoCalOwner's that hell will freeze over before I become financially dependant on my sub.

That being said, I still hold the opinion that if people are legitimately and consensually participating in this kink, then that is their business. If there is abuse in the practice, then just like in everything else that us kinky people do, it is the abuse that is wrong, not the practice.

Is that really so hard to comprehend?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 6:02:21 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

I still hold the opinion that if people are legitimately and consensually participating in this kink, then that is their business. If there is abuse in the practice, then just like in everything else that us kinky people do, it is the abuse that is wrong, not the practice.


Very well said, i agree 100%.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: What's so wrong with financial fetishes? - 9/13/2004 7:21:23 PM   
sting516


Posts: 505
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: long island, ny
Status: offline 		For me, it's more about, is the Domme into me, or just the money? Simple as that. So many of the 'money dommes' seem to have no real life experience with the lifestyle, just experience in asking for money.

Thanks, but no thanks.


sting

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Profile   Post #: 20
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