You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (Full Version)

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LadyAngelika -> You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 12:14:08 PM)

A recent discussion with a friend had me reflecting on something.

He said that he liked the idea of how in D/s, a woman could flip the tables around, chose the man's food and drink, tell him where to sit, control a whole dinner situation and even pay if she so chooses to. Fair enough. She's in charge.

My response to him was what I expect at a restaurant is to have a man ensure my comfort. I will tell him where I want to sit and he will arrange that for me. I will tell him to flag the waiter for me and he will. I like a man ensuring my comfort. I make my man work for me ;-) I consider this delegating.

How does this work itself out for you in your dynamics?

- LA



GraciousLady -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 1:24:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

A recent discussion with a friend had me reflecting on something.

He said that he liked the idea of how in D/s, a woman could flip the tables around, chose the man's food and drink, tell him where to sit, control a whole dinner situation and even pay if she so chooses to. Fair enough. She's in charge.

My response to him was what I expect at a restaurant is to have a man ensure my comfort. I will tell him where I want to sit and he will arrange that for me. I will tell him to flag the waiter for me and he will. I like a man ensuring my comfort. I make my man work for me ;-) I consider this delegating.

How does this work itself out for you in your dynamics?

- LA


For me, it's a matter of planing. Since control is my thing I make sure all protocols are in place ahead of time so I don't have to micromanage. A sub should know what to do in any given situation and be the well trained animal I expect them to be. If they don't, well, then it becomes unpleasant later.



LadyAngelika -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 1:33:08 PM)

Thanks for your input GraciousLady. For the record, I do not micromanage either. I set expectations and I expect them to be met.

This thread isn't so much about how you communicate your expectations (micromanagement or not) but rather if you do things yourself or delegate.

- LA



needDomme -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 1:47:21 PM)

When a Domme delegates to a sub, the sub is able to provide an additional serviceservice. This is an additional benefit to both.



Amanece -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 2:16:41 PM)

I like taking control of the dinner, delegating  things that I prefer he does if he does it well and knows, like choosing wine...but I always like to let know who is in charge...like the feeling.



Lashra -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 2:17:52 PM)

I am like you, I train him to know how I like things and I expect him to make it happen. Which he always does [:D]. Sometimes I order for him, sometimes I allow him to select. He always asks if I do not tell him ahead of time. Sometimes I tell him to order me such and such, which he does.

We've been together long enough that my needs, wants, desires are taken care of.

~Lashra



mcbride -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 3:24:41 PM)

Delegation's a biggie, and gets to the heart of something important about power: less is more.

When you delegate responsibility for a sub, two good things happen: you get acknowledgment, and creativity. Every little thing that sub does in pursuit of making your dinner perfect is a tacit acknowledgment of his role and your power, and each thing reinforces the nature of the relationship.

Creativity is Management 101. Rather than the sub just responding to a series of commands, he now has the mandate to use his skills and talents to find creative ways to make things better for you, so rather than passive acceptance of control, you get active and progressive buy-in.

Lady Angelika's dinner scenarios also make me wanna blurt about...secrecy. There is something awfully seductive (well, for some of us) about secrecy, and while many would happily proclaim their submission from the bell tower on main street, lots simply don't have that luxury....and while that's a disadvantage, the Domme can use it to her advantage.  If she delegates those things to her sub when that dinner is in public, she's reinforcing her control, taking control of parts of his life in a way that pushes him further down that slippery slope precisely because it's sustainable.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 4:19:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

Delegation's a biggie, and gets to the heart of something important about power: less is more.

When you delegate responsibility for a sub, two good things happen: you get acknowledgment, and creativity. Every little thing that sub does in pursuit of making your dinner perfect is a tacit acknowledgment of his role and your power, and each thing reinforces the nature of the relationship.

Creativity is Management 101. Rather than the sub just responding to a series of commands, he now has the mandate to use his skills and talents to find creative ways to make things better for you, so rather than passive acceptance of control, you get active and progressive buy-in.



Kudos!!!!!  That is one of the most insightful things that i've read on this board in quite some time.  i agree with You completely.

i have served far too many Dommes who were so into control, that they prevented me from doing things that i'm certain would have made their experience even more enjoyable.  The problem with that controlling management style is that it nullifies the benefits of the knowledge and talents of the sub (since all they are permitted to do is  respond to specific commands). 

That management style can also potentially leave the Domme in a rut.  Rather than learning from the sub, and thereby growing, She instead demands that things be done the same way She has always had them done (the very definition of a rut).  The flaw in this logic is that it assumes that the Domme is always right and always knows best.  But the reality is that unless She is omniscient, this cannot be the case.  Thus, there are always new things that She can learn, many of which would benefit Her.

One example that immediately comes to mind is a Domme that i used to serve who used to have me chauffeur her around quite often.  She would always give me very specific direction of the route that She wanted to travel.  "Turn left here", "Turn right at the next light", etc.  One thing that i noticed immediately was that She didn't know many shortcuts.  She would always go the longest, but most obvious routes to places (like a tourist would in a new town).  i almost always knew of alternative routes that would avoid traffic and get us there much faster.  But She would never allow me to take the route that i had in mind.  In my opinion, She prevented me from "ensuring her comfort" (to use Lady Angelika's term).

Similarly, if a Dom/Domme has a sub who has extensive knowledge in a particular area, they should let that sub make suggestions.  The Dom/Domme doesn't have to implement the suggestion, but IMO, it is foolish to not even allow the suggestion.  Like if the sub has extensive knowledge of wines, and the Domme does not, why not allow the sub to make a wine suggestion each time you have dinner together?  To me, that is using the sub's skills/knowledge to Your greatest advantage.

Delegation is an important skill for any manager.  Unfortunately, many Doms/Dommes don't realize that management principles apply to the D/s dynamic as well as they do to the business world.

Edit:  i do realize that there are some Doms/Dommes who enjoy the control more than the final end product.  For that person, micro-managing every tiny detail may bring them more joy than they would derive from the sub offering a potentially better solution.



LadyPact -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 4:57:47 PM)

In all honesty, the answer is that it depends.  As was said above, this is one of those areas where having certain protocols in place allows you to have your standards met, without the need for micro-managing.  At the same time, you balance that out with using your s-type in ways that observe his strengths, as well as take advantage of opportunities for growth.  In many cases, it's going to depend on My individual preference.  Dinner out might be dealt with one way, while dinner out requires something else.  When clip serves Me a drink at home, it's done in a particular fashion.  One that probably wouldn't be acceptable at most restaurants.  That's replaced when we're out by him 'serving' Me in another way.  Yes, he's still responsible for the drink, but he carries that out in a different method.

I can't help Myself for this minor hijack:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
One example that immediately comes to mind is a Domme that i used to serve who used to have me chauffeur her around quite often.  She would always give me very specific direction of the route that She wanted to travel.  "Turn left here", "Turn right at the next light", etc.  One thing that i noticed immediately was that She didn't know many shortcuts.  She would always go the longest, but most obvious routes to places (like a tourist would in a new town).  i almost always knew of alternative routes that would avoid traffic and get us there much faster.  But She would never allow me to take the route that i had in mind.  In my opinion, She prevented me from "ensuring her comfort" (to use Lady Angelika's term).


Edit:  i do realize that there are some Doms/Dommes who enjoy the control more than the final end product.  For that person, micro-managing every tiny detail may bring them more joy than they would derive from the sub offering a potentially better solution.


We don't disagree terribly often, but when I read the above, the first thing that I thought of was how much the Domme you mentioned probably enjoyed this.  Truthfully, I would too.  Especially if it were a case of Me not being in a rush and I just wanted to control the path you took for a while.  I saw it in a very metaphorical sense.  In fact, you may have known more direct ways, but she may have simply enjoyed the scenario for her to have you take the route she gave you, even when you may have thought something else was better.  Believe it or not, for a Dominant woman, that's a creature comfort, too.



madderrose -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 5:18:56 PM)

Hello, first post. Oh, what nice responses!

This depends entirely on the situation. If rules have been stated, wants and needs discussed, if the relationship has gone on for some time and I know things will be done the way I want them, I can delegate. Delegating gives me the pleasure of seeing someone who's paid attention to my wants and needs, and it gives me more pleasure when he can do it with a sense of 'flair' I suppose. What I like is not just when the things I ask for have been done, but when I can clearly see the effort and thought that went into it. It is the same at work, or in my spare time.

But, if I'm not sure about the person yet, or if it's early in the relationship I will do everything (from when and where we eat to how we get there, to what the sub wears. And what goes underneath.) until he knows what I want.

I really, really dislike it when things aren't the way I want them to be....







LadyAngelika -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 5:36:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
Kudos!!!!!  That is one of the most insightful things that i've read on this board in quite some time.  i agree with You completely.


That is because mcbride is one of those smart men like you ;-)

You know Rochsub, I so understand where you are coming from with that chauffeur story. I would have wanted you to speak up in that situation.

Then again, there are men who don't want to speak up and women who want it just so and perhaps they belong together. Ultimately, it is by finding a match right for each of us.

I very much agree with mcbride's description of secrecy as well. I'm all about discretion in public which makes it even more challenging for a man.

- LA



LadyAngelika -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 5:41:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madderrose
Hello, first post.

Welcome!
quote:


Oh, what nice responses!

Agreed!
quote:

This depends entirely on the situation. If rules have been stated, wants and needs discussed, if the relationship has gone on for some time and I know things will be done the way I want them, I can delegate. Delegating gives me the pleasure of seeing someone who's paid attention to my wants and needs, and it gives me more pleasure when he can do it with a sense of 'flair' I suppose. What I like is not just when the things I ask for have been done, but when I can clearly see the effort and thought that went into it. It is the same at work, or in my spare time.

But, if I'm not sure about the person yet, or if it's early in the relationship I will do everything (from when and where we eat to how we get there, to what the sub wears. And what goes underneath.) until he knows what I want.

I really, really dislike it when things aren't the way I want them to be....
Much of what you say resonates with me except for the in the beginning part. I like to see a man hit the ground running ;-)

- LA



Politesub53 -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 6:57:22 PM)

The idea of being a task being delegated to me appeals to me on many levels. Mainly it allows me to make "Her" life easier. It also keeps me on my toes knowing I am being judged at some level on how I am doing. Discretion in public also plays a part and in a way makes it something special between the two of us, like an unspoken bond.



Rochsub2009 -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 7:26:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
One example that immediately comes to mind is a Domme that i used to serve who used to have me chauffeur her around quite often.  She would always give me very specific direction of the route that She wanted to travel.  "Turn left here", "Turn right at the next light", etc.  One thing that i noticed immediately was that She didn't know many shortcuts.  She would always go the longest, but most obvious routes to places (like a tourist would in a new town).  i almost always knew of alternative routes that would avoid traffic and get us there much faster.  But She would never allow me to take the route that i had in mind.  In my opinion, She prevented me from "ensuring her comfort" (to use Lady Angelika's term).


We don't disagree terribly often, but when I read the above, the first thing that I thought of was how much the Domme you mentioned probably enjoyed this.  Truthfully, I would too.  Especially if it were a case of Me not being in a rush and I just wanted to control the path you took for a while.  I saw it in a very metaphorical sense.  In fact, you may have known more direct ways, but she may have simply enjoyed the scenario for her to have you take the route she gave you, even when you may have thought something else was better.  Believe it or not, for a Dominant woman, that's a creature comfort, too.



LadyPact,
Interesting perspective.  Thanks for sharing it.  Frankly, i hadn't looked at it this way.

Personally, i HATE being stuck in traffic.  i try to avoid it at all costs.  So it made no sense to be to constantly take the most congested roads and sit idly in traffic, when i knew of other routes.  But your idea that the dictating of the route was part of the enjoyment does make sense.

i guess that for me, a ride is enjoyable if it is on a country road, or through a scenic area.  But bumper-to-bumper traffic on a crowded freeway just didn't seem like something that someone could find enjoyable.  But i guess there are other aspects of the trip that she may have been enjoying. 

Thanks again for sharing that perspective.



mcbride -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 7:45:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madderrose


But, if I'm not sure about the person yet, or if it's early in the relationship I will do everything (from when and where we eat to how we get there, to what the sub wears. And what goes underneath.) until he knows what I want.


i think, for me, those things go hand in hand...the stage where things can be delegated...but before that, at the very start....blizkrieg. Boot camp...being stripped, all at once, of all those unconscious assumptions, about the right to dress oneself -- or even be dressed -- to choose one's food...

That kind of eye-opening attitude adjustment is very powerful, and effective in establishing who's who.



LadyPact -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 7:47:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009
One example that immediately comes to mind is a Domme that i used to serve who used to have me chauffeur her around quite often.  She would always give me very specific direction of the route that She wanted to travel.  "Turn left here", "Turn right at the next light", etc.  One thing that i noticed immediately was that She didn't know many shortcuts.  She would always go the longest, but most obvious routes to places (like a tourist would in a new town).  i almost always knew of alternative routes that would avoid traffic and get us there much faster.  But She would never allow me to take the route that i had in mind.  In my opinion, She prevented me from "ensuring her comfort" (to use Lady Angelika's term).


We don't disagree terribly often, but when I read the above, the first thing that I thought of was how much the Domme you mentioned probably enjoyed this.  Truthfully, I would too.  Especially if it were a case of Me not being in a rush and I just wanted to control the path you took for a while.  I saw it in a very metaphorical sense.  In fact, you may have known more direct ways, but she may have simply enjoyed the scenario for her to have you take the route she gave you, even when you may have thought something else was better.  Believe it or not, for a Dominant woman, that's a creature comfort, too.



LadyPact,
Interesting perspective.  Thanks for sharing it.  Frankly, i hadn't looked at it this way.

Personally, i HATE being stuck in traffic.  i try to avoid it at all costs.  So it made no sense to be to constantly take the most congested roads and sit idly in traffic, when i knew of other routes.  But your idea that the dictating of the route was part of the enjoyment does make sense.

i guess that for me, a ride is enjoyable if it is on a country road, or through a scenic area.  But bumper-to-bumper traffic on a crowded freeway just didn't seem like something that someone could find enjoyable.  But i guess there are other aspects of the trip that she may have been enjoying. 

Thanks again for sharing that perspective.


You're quite welcome and I'd like to thank you for sharing yours.  It brought Me a smile on My side of the screen.



DrkJourney -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 8:12:19 PM)

I never thought of it as delegating, but one of his duties, just like he does all the other rituals.  I train him to know what I want and how I want thinks done and it's his job to do his job...lol

I wouldn't say it's delegating any more than him doing any other or his chores.



DrkJourney -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/20/2010 8:22:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

Delegation's a biggie, and gets to the heart of something important about power: less is more.

When you delegate responsibility for a sub, two good things happen: you get acknowledgment, and creativity. Every little thing that sub does in pursuit of making your dinner perfect is a tacit acknowledgment of his role and your power, and each thing reinforces the nature of the relationship.

Creativity is Management 101. Rather than the sub just responding to a series of commands, he now has the mandate to use his skills and talents to find creative ways to make things better for you, so rather than passive acceptance of control, you get active and progressive buy-in.

Lady Angelika's dinner scenarios also make me wanna blurt about...secrecy. There is something awfully seductive (well, for some of us) about secrecy, and while many would happily proclaim their submission from the bell tower on main street, lots simply don't have that luxury....and while that's a disadvantage, the Domme can use it to her advantage.  If she delegates those things to her sub when that dinner is in public, she's reinforcing her control, taking control of parts of his life in a way that pushes him further down that slippery slope precisely because it's sustainable.



hmmm never thought of it that way....maybe it's because it's not how I do things.

Basically, I train him to know how I like things done.  After that I would simply say take me to "x" and I would depend on him to get me there safe and sound....wouldn't think about giving turn by turn direction. 

He is here to make my life easier...if I have to micro manage like that I might as well just do it myself..lol   But I can see why some Dominants were do this, mainly because a lot of submissives that I have spoken with require this...in the sense that this is how they want to be treated

er..well...there was this one time I did give him driving directions...he wanted to only listen to GPS and it was taking us way out of our way in the opposite direction, so I had to take the phone away and give him turn by turn instruction....

hey, don't come down on me....we were going to be late for our wedding!!!.....LOL



Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/21/2010 6:58:55 AM)

Most instances, I like proactive submission. I like when a guy gets to know me well enough to know what I enjoy, and makes efforts to provide that enjoyment.

However, there are times, either when he simply doesn't know, or I'm in the mood, that I take full control and micromanage. Sometimes, it's just hot to see him squirm when I pick out his dinner, his clothes, and the route we will drive. Othertimes, I prefer him to be chivalrous, pull my chair out for me, order my meal, pick out the wine (this all presumes he knows my preferences), etc.

So, essentially, I like both ways of handling things, and do both depending on the situation or how I feel like handling it.



LadyAngelika -> RE: You're in charge, so do you delegate or do you do it yourself? (3/21/2010 7:53:17 AM)

There are definitely moments, instances, where the rules changes and I will be take control of everything in the situation, but that is definitely not the way the every day plays itself out.

- LA



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