The "Submissive Squirrel" (Full Version)

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MistressDarkArt -> The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/24/2010 9:42:52 PM)

Hello Mistresses and subs,

I have just concluded an experience with a sub male I wish never to repeat.  I welcome your comments and suggestions to avoid this phenomenon happening in the future.

I took on a sub male 3 months ago who pursued me relentlessly. At last I agreed to see him and we began to regularly session as well as spend time together in the vanilla world since we had many things in common and lived in the same county  (please refer to my profile and journal entries for all background information.)  It would be accurate to say I went into it at 1% in December and he at 100%...he simply could not do enough to please me and stated he was having a tremendously hard time holding himself back.  Since I was just getting to know him and understood that he was smitten with the idea of submission/bdsm and not necessarily *me* I doled out my investment in him in direct relation to how much he put into our new connection.  The more he gave the more he got, and we both seemed to give and get a lot. 

Fast forward to 3 mos. later. Me: 100%  Him: 0%   During an absence of nearly a month as he traveled he lost his submissive desire completely.  I will include his note here.
Yes, the details of our last two sessions have faded, almost as much as my desire to continue to experiment with BDSM.   It has been wonderful to experience the things you have done.  It has been an awkward curiosity to play the submissive role outside of session.  I'm sure there was an element of anxiety over the change in my desire to continue to experiment with BDSM.   I'm certain that I do not wish to continue our relationship as your submissive.  I would be happy to continue as your friend and share time, food, and contra with you.  But as with so many things in life, the fantasy and reality are very different animals.  The wanting is sometimes much more intense and fun than the having.  I no longer want to spend my energy this way.

I re-read his journal entries and was very thankful I insisted he do them...it was all right there and  I could identify exactly where he started to have doubts and get squirrel-y.  Then, of course, when he didn't want to journal the last two sessions I knew that he was done.

I feel resentful of the effort I put forth on all levels to have it turn out like this.  I have been a dominant since I first entered the sexual arena at age 14.  I've *always* known what I wanted in life and there has been no separation of 'fantasy' and 'reality'...I have a life-long history of making my fantasies become my realities!  And I can honestly say I've hurt no one nor wasted anyone's time in the process.

So...Mistresses...submissives...have you any insight or advice to help me avoid another "squirrel" in my future?  Any key question I should ask a potential sub right in the beginning that would reveal his true nature?

I hope it is OK to post this concurrently on both the Ask A Mistress and Ask A Submissive forum so I can get both perspectives.

Thank you and best to all!
MDA


 



VampiresLair -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/24/2010 9:50:14 PM)

I dont think there was anything to avoid, because any weeding out questions you would have asked him in the beginning he would have flown through with flying colors. He was not a player or a wannabe who was stringing you along. He was simply mistaken. Being submissive was not for him, although he didnt know it when he met you. As he said, quite correctly, the reality was not what the fantasy had promised. The only way to lower your chances of meeting people who will come to this conclusion is to only meet with submissives who have had experience with actual submission already and know it does work for them.

Would this still have bothered you if he had a reason other than not realizing he was not actually submissive?

DV



LadyPact -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/24/2010 9:59:21 PM)

OK.  On the cross posting, expect the Mods to delete one of them.  You may want to keep very up to date on both threads, as the answers that you're given from one side of the kneel or another will disappear.  (I still wish we could do something about that in cases such as this, but I haven't a clue as to what.)

Also, I'm going to tell you that I am not doing the additional research (your profile and journal).  I'm just going to go on what you're asking here.

I don't really think there's anything you can do which can help you prevent this experience.  Not all of us have always been involved in wiitwd from the very beginning, so not all of us know if it's really going to be for us until we've tried it out.  The only way you could avoid it completely would be to establish a policy of never taking on anyone who hasn't had a previous dynamic.  Personally, I wouldn't suggest that.  It would exclude those who may have never had this type of involvement before, but honestly do want it as a reality.

When a person first gets into this, whether it be a full on dynamic or just on the play side of things, you really don't have a way to know how it's going to turn out.  You have to give each person a shot and not carry over the 'there was a guy who turned into a squirrel' thought process.

I'm sorry if that wasn't especially helpful, but welcome here, anyways.



domiguy -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/24/2010 10:09:33 PM)

I have stopped seeing women because I was no longer attracted to them. Sometimes it starts out all hot and shit but when when you take the time to sit back and take it all in it just seems sort of lame.

It is probably what happened here.

No one cares that you have been doing this since you were fourteen.

does that make you part of the old guard? That would be cool.



DWCskitten -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/24/2010 10:09:44 PM)

MistressDarkArt,

First of all.....[sm=welcomewave.gif]

i don't know what to say except that making him keep a journal is a good idea. Master Sir does that with me. Have any prospective sub/slave keep a journal and have him write his thoughts and feelings about bdsm and your budding relationship in it. Make that part a requirement, and then make sure You read it carefully and discuss it with him.

Also, getting involved with first-timers or almost-first-timers can be kind of risky, since they don't always know what they really want yet. They're still just exploring. Other than that, all i can say is there are a lot of flaky people out there.

Also, i'm posting in both forums, looking towards the probability that one or the other thread will be deleted for cross-posting since the Mods frown on that.

~kitten~



AAkasha -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/24/2010 10:12:21 PM)



I am sure you will get a lot of great advice. I want to offer another possible perspective.  If you were his first experience with BDSM, and he burned hard and intense for some period of time over it, do not be surprised if you don't hear from him again in oh...say...about 2 months time.  He will say, "I was wrong, I do need BDSM.  Will you please forgive me and take me back as your sub, please?"  Rinse.  Repeat.

I know it is not the case with all kinky people.  However, I think many of  us have cycles of intensity, desire and predatory/submissive need when it comes to bdsm. When we "long" for extended periods of time, then "gorge" when the opportunity finally presents itself, the feeling of "being full" of S&M feels much like being "done" with it. Which isn't true.  It's like a sleeping beast and will come back again, just as soon as the cycle is ready to start again.  This is the time when many kinky people also feel ambivalence, dread and do things like throw away toys and burn porn.  Only to re-purchase.

It could be he wasn't as kinky as he thought he was and was just experimenting.  But if he's been into this a long time (in his head), and he got his fill, and "overfed" his lusts, he could have just gotten his needs met - for now.

Akasha



domiguy -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/24/2010 10:24:08 PM)

Or it could be that he just no longer felt anything for her at all...it happens all of the time. You lose the initial momentum, the infatuation and all you are left with is the reality of the shortcomings of your partner.

So you end things...This is probably what happened.

Big deal. Get over it.

You haven't learned this with your 34 years of domme experience?


Sucks to be you.



MistressDarkArt -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/24/2010 10:31:37 PM)

Wow, thank you all for such fast responses and for the fine welcome.  AA, I think you are right in this case...he has delved a bit here and there over the years throughout his life and I was *very* generous with keeping him satisfied...perhaps too satisfied.  I think your 2-mo time-table is about right.  It has happened with many others before.  As for the toys/equipment...he purchased quite a shopping list in the beginning and when I offered to return it all...he didn't want it.  I don't like to think of myself as mercenary but I guess I could view that as a consolation prize.

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughtful replies.



LafayetteLady -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 1:10:49 AM)

I'm sorry that you are obviously hurt by what happened. On the other hand, this man really does deserve some respect for giving you an explanation when ending it and not simply disappearing as so many people do. He may come back later, he may not. In any case, he was honest and respectful in his ending things with you and that says quite a bit about him, in my opinion.



LifeOnMars -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 2:47:03 AM)

I think Aakasha basically nailed it.  Speaking personally, I've always tended to run hot and cold.  When I was much younger, I used to decide "Okay, I'm cured of masochistic inclinations" at least once every couple of months.  There would be awkward apologies to whomever I was involved with at the time.  It was all terribly Dramatic and Serious and Momentous.  Then a few weeks later, the itch would resume.  Sometimes I'd go crawling back to someone I used to know, sometimes I'd be head over heels over some new dynamic with some exciting new person.

Now I'm just upfront with people.  "Sometimes I'm really into this, sometimes I can take it or leave it," and they, too, can take it or leave it.  But it took me several cycles of immersion/repulsion/re-immersion to figure that out.



MsStarlett -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 4:06:01 AM)

I'm afraid that this ship has sailed.  He may or may not return.  You have to figure out if you are going to ALLOW him to return to you.

Sadly, there is no way to control the emotions of another person.  No matter how much we try, it cannot be done.  And if you try to force it, you will only drive the object of your attentions far, far away.  If you want to keep this person in your life, it will have to be as a friend.  Period.  Don't even try to coax him back, he'll bolt like a rabbit.

As much as I hate to agree with Domiguy on anything, he's right on this one.  That guy just may not be that into you anymore.  Not your fault.  Not his.  Just not flipping his switch anymore.  It happens.  Every human being has had a 'crush' on someone at some point in their lives.  The pursuit of that person was hot and emotional and wonderful.  If you manged to 'catch' the object of your obsession, then you started to notice all the 'not so perfect after all' aspects, and you find yourself far less "Perfectly, Wonderfully, Amazingly Happy!" as you thought you were going to be.... and you call it off.  It's life.  It happens. 

Sounds like this guy thought BDSM was going to be just Super Happy Fun Time that you see in the porn.  It's not.  Never is.  It is quite possible that he's telling you the ghod's honest truth.  He thought BDSM would be one thing and the reality did not live up to his fantasy.  Nothing wrong with YOU, girl.  You weren't the reality that didn't live up to the fantasy.  The lifestyle didn't suit him.  Move on to the next one. 



LadyAngelika -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 5:20:44 AM)

First of all, welcome to the Forums.

quote:

I don't really think there's anything you can do which can help you prevent this experience.


I'm going to agree with LP on this point. The thing is, that people will get cold feet, realise this is not what they wanted, change their minds, etc.

I will say one thing to the credit of your squirely guy. He had the courage to tell you.

And maybe, you weren't the kind of dominant woman he needed. I'm not saying this as a slight. It's a likely possibility as compatibility has a lot to do with it.

I had a similar situation once, very similar dynamics where he pursued me, I considered, I got involved, he got cold feet. He couldn't really articulate what it was that made him get cold feet at that time. I wasn't until years later that I saw in his journal entry here what happened. While I was looking for 24/7 D/s, he was looking for bedroom play D/s.

I can understand how one can feel resentful over it, but truly, resentment is a useless emotion as it brings nothing positive to our lives. I try to do away with it as much as I can, even if it isn't easy, even if I've fallen victim to it more than one.

What I try to do in such situations is make sure that the dynamics with past men don't jade me to sabotage my relationships with future men.

- LA



OttersSwim -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 5:30:25 AM)

The world is full of flat squirrels who could not make up their minds...

While it is unfortunate that you took the journey all the way across the street and he did not, at least he picked a direction that you can clearly identify and have resolution on.

Always a risk taking a new person on the journey into BDSM.  I made the crossing last year and have been in total bliss ever since.  So it does happen and not all squirrels go back or get flattened. 



DarkSteven -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 5:32:31 AM)

I don't get it.  You tried a relationship, you put effort into it, it did not work out.

Happens all the time.  What's the big deal?



RedMagic1 -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 5:41:07 AM)

This is what I see: a guy puts in a ton of effort, makes a woman really happy, and, when he realizes the relationship isn't what he wants, he faces reality like a man and tells her about it.  That seems respectful of both you and your time.

I don't think he wasted your time at all.  I think you feel burned because you wanted more, and are projecting tht onto him.  Frankly, I see a fair amount of top disease in your post.  Just because ten thousand "subs" tell you that you are beautiful and divine and will serve you until the end of the world, it does not mean that you are guaranteed a long-term relationship with a man who possesses a sense of responsibility and self-awareness.

Having a new Platonic friend who is up-front and honest with you like that seems like a 100% gain out of this whole experience, not a problem.

Perhaps you could ask yourself how you could make your personality more long-term attractive to a man who is responsible and self-aware, and happens to be submissive.



Jeffff -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 6:24:27 AM)

Or failing that, she could try "Dominant Anteater"?

It's a thought



GraciousLady -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 6:42:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I don't get it.  You tried a relationship, you put effort into it, it did not work out.

Happens all the time.  What's the big deal?


DS, she's hurt. That's what the big deal is. You know, girl stuff?

MistressDarkArt, I'm sorry you were hurt. I can see even though you went into the relationship carefully and with no expectations you had high hopes for the future. All of us can understand that and I encourage you to be gentle with yourself and give yourself time to get past this.



Venatrix -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 6:44:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I don't get it.  You tried a relationship, you put effort into it, it did not work out.

Happens all the time.  What's the big deal?


Steven, I get the sense that the OP is looking more for insight into how to keep the situation from happening again, rather than anything else. But who amongst us has not mourned the passing of an enjoyable relationship? Sometimes it's not so easy to be cavalier about it.

My advice to the OP would be to start out more as friends and get to the kink *much* later on. Those who are only looking for kink will disappear quite quickly. Those who may be on the fence have a chance to acclimate themselves to d/s, which might help to avoid problems later on. It's advice that's worked for me.



Smutmonger -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 6:45:44 AM)

I really hate to have to say something this obvious...But just being a Dominant female does not entitle you to things.

I have learned over many years as a Top, one basic thing. I may be blessed with devotion-but I am never OWED it. Is a slight concept known as "humility."[;)]



AAkasha -> RE: The "Submissive Squirrel" (3/25/2010 8:33:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I don't get it.  You tried a relationship, you put effort into it, it did not work out.

Happens all the time.  What's the big deal?


I think the big deal   - or what makes this different - is not that it just didn't work out, it's that someone was "balls to the wall" submissive/kinky then just woke up one day and said, "I'm not into it anymore, sorry."  When you are someone who has been kinky all their adult life (and then some), you wonder if you were just used for someone's kinky joy ride or were a mere sexual experiment, and you also boggle at how someone can just basically NOT be kinky after being so into it.  Especially if that person was so passionately, intensely into it and expressed all the capability of being a very solid submissive.

That's why I think - probably - this man just over-exerted himself and/or got his "fix" and will be back again, depending on how his cycle works. It could be one week or a few months, but I can almost guarantee you he will be back to being kinky within 3 months, tops.  Chronic "experimenters" do things like one kinky night every several months or just lightly scratch the surface to protect their egos and not get in too deep; men who go "all out" and want more, more, more and behave as if they are ready for fulltime, bonafide slavery are the ones that burn intensely for some period of weeks then just wake up and are "done."   The ambivalence and self dread comes from how much time or money they feel they wasted. It's like waking up with a hangover after drinking too much and thinking, "how stupid was I?"

I started journaling about my own cycles when I was a teenager.  What baffled me every time was how completely "over it" I was if I ever got a good solid weekend or week of hardcore (to me) BDSM.  I wasn't upset with myself, but clearly, I would search my soul and ever last shred of that "compulsion" that was so impossible to ignore was gone.  I was content, happy -- "normal."  While I thought the idea of bondage or S&M was "interesting," still, it was nowhere near the "oh my god I am going to DIE if I never get to express this lust I am feeling," and it wasn't all-consuming. 

How many times did I journal something to the effect,"I think I am finally growing out of S&m.  I guess I am kind of sad, because it was fun when it was fun, but I can't see myself putting that much emotional energy into it...it was good while it lasted, and I will miss the rush that comes from that hunger"-  I wrote those lines 10, 15 maybe 20 times through college.  Finally I was able to objectively look at it and realize my engine runs hot and cold.  The more intensely I express my urges, the more satiated I feel, and that feeling can feel strangely like "being over it," because what seemed like SUCH a huge need suddenly holds no huge priority in my head.  Until the next time.

And there is ALWAYS a next time.

Akasha



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