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are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 5:18:54 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
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hi

various threads and personal experience has me wondering.

on a first meet, or even a second or third, but lets concentrate on that first meet - and allowing that youve probably been chatting on IM (though i prefer not to) on the phone or exchanging emails and have developed a sense of raport - that first meet can be a whole mixed bag of things.

as a submissive i want to be encouraging. if a guy is relaxed and easy to be with and expresses his dominant personality in some way im not going to reject that projection of Himself - it is after all who he is. i am also going to be me, what else can i be.

how much do you the D type want the person youre meeting to be themselves (submissive) and submissives, how much do you want the D type to be themselves (Dominant) - surely to some extent or another these facets of our personality are fundamental and cant be or even, arguably, shouldnt be suppressed.

but to what extent are these basic, fundamentals going too far at times. whats the balance.

will a submissive end up coming across as too easy just because she is responding to youre dominant personality and will the dominant come across as too pushy by responding to the submissives approachability.

on the other hand you read about people not being especially sub or Dom at the first meet. how does that work - ive yet to get a handle on that one to be honest. if someones personality hits my s'spot im not going to send out the mixed message that im not responding to that when i am.

so on one hand, being who we are is what its all about but at the same time being who we are can be construed as too easy or too pushy

wheres the middle ground here.

whats the best approach on a first meet.

we've had one or two posts about people not hitting the right note either by being too D or not D enough. weve got another one going where not wearing panties is being too easy, others see it as the sub being responsive.

i just thought it might be helpful to one or two if people shared their expectations and or experiences on a first meet from both sides of the kneel and what approach works best for you.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

Post #: 1

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 5:47:01 AM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

I'm the type of person who likes to take the D/s side of things slow. To me being submissive is something tied into my sexuality and I'm not going to just jump in sexually on a first date. Someone looking for a lifestyle D/s relationship might feel the complete opposite but for me, what I was looking for is a man, who I can respond to as a woman, not as a friend or as a 'sub' but as a woman...and eventually as ''his woman".

I'm also definitely in the "don't be too easy" camp and I don't believe this sends mixed signals at all, so long as you make it clear that you're interested in him you don't have to show that interest in a blatantly sexual manner. But I'd say the biggest thing is - be yourself. If I started to change myself, to be eagerly sexual and submissive on the first date because I thought it would be the right way to attract "a man" the man I'd end up attracting wouldn't be the one I wanted, he'd be the man that the girl I was pretending to be would want.

I'd rather waste the time it takes to go on one date and come home alone, than waste three months with someone doing everything 'right' only to watch it fall apart when I start reverting back to all the "wrong" things I do naturally.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 2

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 6:23:13 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

how much do you the D type want the person youre meeting to be themselves (submissive) and submissives, how much do you

on the other hand you read about people not being especially sub or Dom at the first meet. how does that work - ive yet to get a handle on that one to be honest. if someones personality hits my s'spot im not going to send out the mixed message that im not responding to that when i am.

For me, its vital that they are themselves. I ask them to start the meet like they would with any other friend.
I always tell a new meet that we will know very quickly after meeting if there is any compatibility but I make it clear that if I believe there isn't then I will very quickly tell them and expect them to do the same. Thats not to say we aren't going to continue having lunch together but that we are not going to be taking it down a D/s path.
When I am with someone who I find attractive, I will give out small subtle signs and if they find me attractive they will pick up on those signs and allow that side of themselves to show through in an equally subtle way.
Females I have met are much more careful and somewhat modest. Men tend to get carried away and impress.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 3

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 6:57:32 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

When I meet someone I am me..period. I don't suppress or withhold or turn off my personality. I am who I am. if they don't like it then we obviously aren't compatible and we both simply move on.

Now I may suprress certain actions that may not be appropriate for a location though because I believe in manners.

When I was meeting men I expected the same thing from them as well.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 3/27/2010 6:59:40 AM >

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 4

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 7:12:08 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

I'm the type of person who likes to take the D/s side of things slow. To me being submissive is something tied into my sexuality and I'm not going to just jump in sexually on a first date. Someone looking for a lifestyle D/s relationship might feel the complete opposite but for me, what I was looking for is a man, who I can respond to as a woman, not as a friend or as a 'sub' but as a woman...and eventually as ''his woman".

I'm also definitely in the "don't be too easy" camp and I don't believe this sends mixed signals at all, so long as you make it clear that you're interested in him you don't have to show that interest in a blatantly sexual manner. But I'd say the biggest thing is - be yourself. If I started to change myself, to be eagerly sexual and submissive on the first date because I thought it would be the right way to attract "a man" the man I'd end up attracting wouldn't be the one I wanted, he'd be the man that the girl I was pretending to be would want.

I'd rather waste the time it takes to go on one date and come home alone, than waste three months with someone doing everything 'right' only to watch it fall apart when I start reverting back to all the "wrong" things I do naturally.

hi Elisabella,

id agree and argue that most Ds or Ms people are motivated sexually by their Dominant or submissive personalities. im not someone who goes in for casual sex or first date sex either - but Ds and Ms can be 'played' with quite quickly without any sex involved.

its the nuance of those first intentions that im curious about. or are people more blatent.

i dont want to suddenly find myself with someone who stridently demands any overt Ds or Ms on a first meet, but those early signals, the one maria is mentioning, those little signals that play with the potential dynamic youre both there to explore after all, i would agree, do need to be there to some extent or another.

the question is to what extent.

youre comment about meeting someone you can respond to as a woman is kinda what this is about really. as a woman who happens to be submissive those two things are intricately and inextricably linked, i wouldnt know how to separate them and since im looking for a relationship where 'i' the woman (who happens to be submissive) is seeking to find a man who happens to be of a dominant personality and not withstanding the fact that sexuality is in there, these elements of personality and sexuality can get over powering.

so what do people do with those overpowering elements and how did it work out. did you act on them right then or go away knowing you were on to something, did you the D type hold back and exercise some restraint knowing that the sub was just responding to youre initial nudges or did you take it further. am i being too nosey

i like how you do things maria, that sounds about right to me. nuance and small signals - thats hot! - gives the sub the opportunity to respond into the space youre providing without any more pressure than a nudge to see if they pick up on the signals and if theyre response works for you.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 5

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 8:05:44 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

how much do you the D type want the person youre meeting to be themselves (submissive) and submissives,
but to what extent are these basic, fundamentals going too far at times. whats the balance.

I want them to to be themselves..... but I am unsure of what do you mean by balance... are talking about balance between being themselves and not being themselves? In my world.... there is no balance... I want them to always be themselves. I want to know the authentic self... and from that I can make an informed choice on wanting to build a relationship with them or not.

quote:

will a submissive end up coming across as too easy just because she is responding to youre dominant personality and will the dominant come across as too pushy by responding to the submissives approachability.

maybe... but better to make an informed choice on authentic knowledged of the person than on a lie!

quote:

on the other hand you read about people not being especially sub or Dom at the first meet. how does that work -

mmmmmmmm don't care... it seems people are more interested in some sort of set of behaviors and not really getting to know the person that behaviors under different motivations will manifest from.

Behaviors themselves are indeed a reflection of the person and their motivations... However.... motivations are like understanding a language.... you need to understand the language to understand what is being said. Thus.. you need to understand the motivations of a person to know them from the behaviors you observe.

quote:

so on one hand, being who we are is what its all about but at the same time being who we are can be construed as too easy or too pushy

wheres the middle ground here.

whats the best approach on a first meet.

no middle ground...... just be authentic... whatever that happens to be! it might not work for this particular first meet... but in some first meet it will be right... and the rewards of that authentic first meet are going to be enjoyed for years!!!!!!!

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 3/27/2010 8:06:16 AM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 6

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 9:31:55 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Our first meet, I picked the place because I was out of town and I knew I could find this one spot. Getting lost was not desirable. He expressed his dominance by saying he didn't like half hour coffee meets, and he wanted me to commit to following him a mile down the road to a diner to have breakfast instead. It was him taking charge in a way that set up no red flags and was perfectly safe for me.

And that's what I like, him setting up the date but considering my feelings. If it's the first dinner date, tell her where you propose to take her and when, and then ask if she has a conflict such as an allergy to seafood if you want to go to a sushi bar.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 7

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 10:24:32 AM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

I meet people as people, whether or not they are dominant means little to me since what I am seeking is a compatible personality. I have to think this works, since I have never dated nilla men. When I meet a man I want to know he sparks my interest. He may be funny or serious, he may be great at teasing, or might ignite the little girl in me, each one is different and special. I never go in meeting a man as a potential fuck or playmate, that just happens if it is meant to happen. The one thing I have noticed in all the men I meet is that they are very genuine people. They have no need to play out a role to get me to comply. They are confident and secure about who they are and what they want from me.

IF I have no interest upon getting to know them during those first initial meetings my mind starts to do other tasks in mid date. It is always a bad sign if I start redesigning the restaurant in my head. It wouldn't matter if they suddenly gave me the big dom rush that in another man might have me swooning. If I am not interested in a guy that is not going to happen. If the gentleman has approached me in a domly manner without my first getting to know him as a person my inner "MOM" comes out and takes over. Too much rush, to me, means they would do anything that moved as long as it gets them a BJ. Phht.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 8

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 11:49:50 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

I'm initially more interested in knowing the person than the sub within. Yet I'm not interested at all if she's not submissive.... As long as she is submissive, then it becomes a matter of whether she's someone I'd like to spend time with, preferably a lot of time, and I mean doing a lot more than what D/s entails.

I've had a mixed bag of first meets and it IS tough getting past another person's preconceived notions (esp a newbie) of who and what a Dominant is and how we function. I don't give orders or make demands of someone I don't really know. In an ideal world the D/s is usually there in subtle ways - subs tend to push a little, presumably just testing the waters (which is fine, btw) and I might flash "the stare" in response and we have a chuckle etc.... It's lighthearted and breaks the ice and we've learnt a little about each other.

For me, if I don't like a sub as a person or there's no general m/f rapport or chemistry, then I'm not the least bit interested in bossing her about or bending her over my knee etc....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 9

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 5:28:47 PM

dragon200070

Posts: 93
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline

Hi,
Best advice is be your self. If you prospective Dom is so dumb that he'll refuse you because you're not subby enough; you're better off without him. A real (experienced Dom) will be very concerned about building trust and finding chemistry. These are not things you can influence consciously. Your long-term intestests are served by being yourself.

All agree that once you decide to submit, you'll be less aggressive. But first you have to establish a relationship. So at the initial meeting, be a bit aggressive and ask questions. Make no assumptions. Dom's love to talk about their philosophy. An experienced Dom will be much like a vanilla date. He'll be concerned about compatability.

Jeff

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 10

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 5:53:45 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I don't have expectation other than I figure I won't be interested. That said, I just let things flow and wing it. Some women want you to push and if I want them, I push, some women don't want you to push and well, I do my best not to push anyway.

I think a better answer to your question is to answer how women I have respected have done this. They meet a guy who makes them wet but they don't act on that impulse. They go slow, forcing themselves to take the time needed to get to know the guy. Frankly, despite my luck nailing them from day one, I am learning to go slow myself despite desires to do otherwise.

(in reply to dragon200070)

Post #: 11

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 7:20:56 PM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

Some get so caught up in their fantasy of what the other will be like that they are almost bound to fail no matter what they do

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 12

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 7:25:33 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

Lally, that's a tougher question than it seems in my opinion, lol.

Typically when you have been chatting by either email, messenger or chat, and you "met" through a site like this one where the dynamic is really the starting point, those early conversations will involve some of each of your expectations regarding the power dynamic. So, in a way, a bit of the D/s is already starting as the getting to know what each will expect from the other.

I'm not the type that cares for the whole "don't wear panties" to our first meeting thing. It is immediately turning things sexual to me and I need more than that from a partner. In the past, I have met some "potentials" who have requested me to wear certain things, like a skirt or heels, and that doesn't bother me much. After all, it seems to be a kind of "standard" among dominants that they like women in skirts/dresses and high heels. Of course now, the request to wear heels would be an interesting one and might not be happening. But I digress...

I don't want a dominant to be overtly "in charge" at the first meeting. Although it would be part of the relationship, I think it is important to keep those initial meetings very light so we can get to know each other. If both of us are slipping right into the D/s aspect, I think it could hinder some of the communication, although I realize that is just me.

I think that we all have met those people who are just so naturally dominant (or submissive) that we respond respectively to who we would be going forward in the relationship. For me, if I were meeting a man for a meal (although I tend to prefer coffee type things for a first meet), him immediately taking charge in the sense of being a gentleman, pulling out my chair, ordering for both of us, etc. would be enough "dominant" behavior. Likewise for suggesting the place for the meeting, going on the premise that we are both local. If one of us is traveling some distance, that could change some.

I also don't want a "potential" to attempt to make the majority of the conversation about D/s in general or specifics about the power dynamic in a relationship moving forward. To me, those first meetings are to learn about each other as a person, not as a dominant or a submissive. That probably has to do with the fact that, when I was looking, I was looking for a loving relationship that encompassed D/s, not just a D/s situation. Those early meetings are for finding out about general life likes and dislikes, hobbies, etc. If two people don't have enough compatibility as people, it doesn't matter how much they have in common from a D/s standpoint. It doesn't matter how much you can rock my world if you want to watch football every night of the week and expect me to watch it with you.

It's been a long time since I have even had to think about these things. My partner wasn't very dominant on our first dates, but then again looking back, he was in a lot of little ways, and I just didn't even notice, but I definately responded, and didn't notice that either, lol.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 13

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/27/2010 8:39:38 PM

Smutmonger

Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline

I've turned quite a few women off on first meets by coming across as polite-but not particularly agressive. I usually save the dramatics for someone I decide has some actual potential.

This has worked out well for me over the years-since It also tends to chase off the ones expecting some fantasy guy who is "on all of the time." I have better uses for my energy than to be a 24/7 fantasy ride.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 14

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/28/2010 5:29:54 AM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
1-...wheres the middle ground here.
2-...whats the best approach on a first meet.
3-...what approach works best for you.

Hello lally2. 1-There is no middle ground in expectations. 2- The best approach is to just go and trust your instincts. 3-Nature. RL

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 15

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/28/2010 7:29:01 AM

jbcurious

Posts: 717
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline

Let me start by saying I'm new here and also to BDSM... other then some experimenting 15 years ago... So as to correct terminology etc I have no idea and take constructive criticism well, after all, I'm here to learn.

On a first meet... I haven't chosen to be submissive to him, he's not my Dom and that will be the only person I will be submissive to.

I am meeting a man who is Dominant and I will act as I would meeting anyone, with good manners and respect, I think everyone deserves that until they prove me wrong.

As I'm interested in a relationship... one of the first things I'm looking for is attraction. I don't mean that he's "hot"...rather that something about him attracts me, his presence, the way he carries himself, quiet confidence and a wicked gleam in his eye. That he treats those around him with common courtesy...a truely Dominant man doesn't need to prove it to the world.

Second would be that he's intelligent and a good conversationalist...I can't imagine spending lots of time with someone I couldn't have a conversation with.

Third... That through conversation and the way that he handles himself he shows intelligence.

Showing up to a meet, anyone can call themselves Dominant but it will be someone that shows me they are Dominant in who they are... and not how well they dress the part or give orders.

(in reply to robertolapiedra)

Post #: 16

RE: are they mixed messages - 3/28/2010 9:41:23 AM

alittleevil

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
i just thought it might be helpful to one or two if people shared their expectations and or experiences on a first meet from both sides of the kneel and what approach works best for you.

Hello,

In the time between my previous owner and Master, i had quite a bit of first meets, both with men who overtly considered themselves "dominants" and those who did not (but often were) and a fairly full spectrum of experiences.

I met men, quite nice men, who were probably quite competent, who clearly consider(ed) themselves dominants, who did not rouse any feeling of response to dominance in me and i met men who were "vanilla" to whom i could have knelt in a heartbeat.

Some of the overt dominants had requirements for the first meet, some of them didn't. At first, i did try behaving as a 'proper' submissive person, no matter what i felt from them, but that got tiresome and hurtful. I can't play a role and i'm disappointed and confused when others do. So i stopped behaving 'properly' and just went with what i genuinely felt. As a result, with some of them i was easy (which is not a problem for me--i like sex and attach much less significance to it than some) and some of them just didn't trip my triggers (physically or emotionally) and may have gone away suspecting me of false advertising as a submissive girl. If i feel it, i respond to it, whether the man in question intends to provoke it or not, and vice versa.

Master sent me an email (on another site) one day and we spoke on IM for several hours the next, which moved to a phone call of several hours that evening. We met in person two days later, in a lovely public park and went for a long walk/conversation which ended...rather well :-). He decided i would be his slave and well, here i happily am. There was no indication that he expected anything of me that day nor did he seem terribly surprised that i fell into his bed and at his feet. That was just the effect he (being himself) had on me (being myself).

In hindsight, it's really hard to imagine it working out well any other way.

Best,
aj

_____________________________

Throw me to the wolves because there's order in the pack (RHCP)

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 17

RE: are they mixed messages - 4/8/2010 3:15:27 PM

reynardfox

Posts: 417
Joined: 9/8/2009
Status: offline

I meet everyone under the same assumption, that we are people who share interests and could be friends, no complications, no roles, no bullshit.
If we don't get on as people, then that's that.No use trying to make someone like you. As Spike Milligan always used to say about people who hated him on sight, "Well, it saves time" Life's too short.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 18

RE: are they mixed messages - 4/8/2010 8:26:44 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

Feel your way.

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(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 19

RE: are they mixed messages - 4/8/2010 11:17:42 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

lally,

You are way overthinking this. I will see you again IF i enjoied you the first time. I swear it's really that simple.

BadOne

_____________________________

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According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 20

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