RE: Tea Party Crashers (Full Version)

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FirmhandKY -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 6:47:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


But Tea Party organizers -- both nationally and locally -- say the misinformed beliefs of some do not represent the views of all.

"Any movement is going to have fringe elements," said Joan Fabiano, an organizer with Grassroots in Michigan, a Tea Party group based in Lansing, Mich.

"If there's any sort of hateful and racist signs, that is something the Tea Party in general would disavow," she said. 

Firm




If there is any sort of hateful and racist signs.... come on! After all these months since the August recess and the disruption of countless town hall meetings the Tea Party "in general" would disavow. Took them awhile, Firm. And not a very steadfast repudiation I don't think. A little bit on tippy tippy toes.


vincent,

I'm not really sure of your point.

First, you seem to be saying that "all" of the "townhall" meetings which occurred were disrupted, and "all" the disruptions were caused by avowed "TEA party" members, and that "all" such protests and events included hateful and racist signs.

Even if you substitute the word "most" for "all" or even "many" for "all", I'm not sure the logic follows, or applies to (what I think may be) your point.

As well, I think the question of reciprocity comes into question i.e. since when is citizens complaining to their elected officials somehow "wrong" if done by people who wish limited government, compared to protesters who wished increase government?

Firm



truckinslave -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 7:34:32 AM)

quote:

According to the source, who sought anonymity for fear of reprisals, the Dems’ last minute scramble reflects a growing obsession among party leaders that they need to discredit the tea party movement soon or it will overwhelm them come the November election.


No, they're not afraid. Not.At.All.

If they were afraid they'd ignore the Tea Party, right?

I'm afraid of the violence when we first defund and then repeal this shit. That's when it's going to get ugly.



mnottertail -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 7:35:30 AM)

LOL, its probably Ron Paul supporters in actuality.



vincentML -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 10:00:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


But Tea Party organizers -- both nationally and locally -- say the misinformed beliefs of some do not represent the views of all.

"Any movement is going to have fringe elements," said Joan Fabiano, an organizer with Grassroots in Michigan, a Tea Party group based in Lansing, Mich.

"If there's any sort of hateful and racist signs, that is something the Tea Party in general would disavow," she said. 

Firm




If there is any sort of hateful and racist signs.... come on! After all these months since the August recess and the disruption of countless town hall meetings the Tea Party "in general" would disavow. Took them awhile, Firm. And not a very steadfast repudiation I don't think. A little bit on tippy tippy toes.


vincent,

I'm not really sure of your point.

First, you seem to be saying that "all" of the "townhall" meetings which occurred were disrupted, and "all" the disruptions were caused by avowed "TEA party" members, and that "all" such protests and events included hateful and racist signs.

Even if you substitute the word "most" for "all" or even "many" for "all", I'm not sure the logic follows, or applies to (what I think may be) your point.

As well, I think the question of reciprocity comes into question i.e. since when is citizens complaining to their elected officials somehow "wrong" if done by people who wish limited government, compared to protesters who wished increase government?

Firm



Firm, I did not say "all." I did say "countless" and I will walk that back. Just seems that way. The controversy re: slanderous epithets and signs and disruptions of town hall meetings has been upon us since august 09. My point is the Tea Party leaders are late in their disavowel. As have been the Republican and Conservative leaders. But that is a side issue.

My main point was that crap has always been a part of American politics and no one should be surprised or outraged. Just the way the game is played. You wanna be an idealist about it you're in the wrong game.

To go back to the OP and some of the comments that followed about this guy Jason Levin..... I looked at his website. Looks like a joke. Levin looks like a joke. You think this guy has an organization? That's a joke. You all have your balls and ovaries in an uproar over a schlemiel - a loser- who is unlikely to have any impact regardless of all the conspiracies you might imagine.



brainiacsub -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 10:03:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

[...]
But Tea Party organizers -- both nationally and locally -- say the misinformed beliefs of some do not represent the views of all.

"Any movement is going to have fringe elements," said Joan Fabiano, an organizer with Grassroots in Michigan, a Tea Party group based in Lansing, Mich.

"If there's any sort of hateful and racist signs, that is something the Tea Party in general would disavow," she said. 

Firm



Firm, this group looses all credibility proclaiming that racists are the fringe when they pick leaders like Tom Tancredo to give the opening speech at the first Tea Party Convention in Nashville who then makes some pretty unsavory remarks about multiculturalism and requiring civics and literacy tests for voters (a dig at minorities and immigrants...a link to that speech has been posted in other recent threads). The moderates among us certainly don't believe that everyone associated with the Tea Parties is a racist, but it's disingenuous to say that it's just a few people on the fringe.



domiguy -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 10:24:38 AM)

Here is Dale Robertson, a fiscally responsible racist...A Tea Party activist who operates http://www.teaparty.org/

[image]http://www.indecisionforever.com/files/2010/01/dale-robertson-sign-big.jpg[/image]

How could anyone think that there might be a problem here?

That's right, Dale is one of those party crashers....LMAO!!!!



vincentML -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 10:36:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


Firm, this group looses all credibility proclaiming that racists are the fringe when they pick leaders like Tom Tancredo to give the opening speech at the first Tea Party Convention in Nashville who then makes some pretty unsavory remarks about multiculturalism and requiring civics and literacy tests for voters (a dig at minorities and immigrants...a link to that speech has been posted in other recent threads). The moderates among us certainly don't believe that everyone associated with the Tea Parties is a racist, but it's disingenuous to say that it's just a few people on the fringe.


Sheesh, I forgot about that asshole Tom Tancredo. You're right brainiacsub. No one should be proud of that association.



thishereboi -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 10:42:01 AM)

quote:

requiring civics and literacy tests for voters (a dig at minorities and immigrants...


Why would you say that? Are you implying minorities and immigrants are illiterate?



brainiacsub -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 10:44:25 AM)

No, I said Tom Tancredo said it in his speech at the Tea Party convention. It's offensive, isn't it?



brainiacsub -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 10:48:11 AM)

But, he's wearing a flag shirt so he's a patriot.



slvemike4u -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 11:13:16 AM)

You mean that he isn't ?....despite wearing the shirt.Fuck it all,how are we to tell the real "patriots" from the faux "patriots" with out using the time honored flag shirt litmus test?



Musicmystery -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 11:57:55 AM)



~FR~

I'm not in favor of disruption as a political technique. For starters, I don't think it's effective for more much other than getting into the "news." Thus, it's a tool used when the user has little else worthy of more consequential approaches.

That said, those setting about disruption can't be surprised when they in turn are disrupted. No, I don't think one justifies the other. But not to see it coming is just naive.

The flurry of activity on both sides is a waste of resources. A group of mainly conservative Republicans will continue to vote for conservative Republicans. Those in opposition will continue to vote for other candidates. It's a lot of noise, altering nothing of substance.




vincentML -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 12:05:28 PM)

Agree MM. Just a way of venting and raging against the uncertainty of the times ..... serious, scarey issues ... unemployment, foreclosure, healthcare, etc.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 12:05:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

[...]
But Tea Party organizers -- both nationally and locally -- say the misinformed beliefs of some do not represent the views of all.

"Any movement is going to have fringe elements," said Joan Fabiano, an organizer with Grassroots in Michigan, a Tea Party group based in Lansing, Mich.

"If there's any sort of hateful and racist signs, that is something the Tea Party in general would disavow," she said. 

Firm



Firm, this group looses all credibility proclaiming that racists are the fringe when they pick leaders like Tom Tancredo to give the opening speech at the first Tea Party Convention in Nashville who then makes some pretty unsavory remarks about multiculturalism and requiring civics and literacy tests for voters (a dig at minorities and immigrants...a link to that speech has been posted in other recent threads). The moderates among us certainly don't believe that everyone associated with the Tea Parties is a racist, but it's disingenuous to say that it's just a few people on the fringe.


brainiac,

A couple of points:

1.  You seem to be implying that they are all racist because a few may be.  I can find racist Republicans.  I can find racist Democrats.  I can find racist Independents.  I can find racists whites, Asians, and blacks.  We want to make the claim that all of these groups are racist?

Further, I challenge you to attempt to quantify the number of racists that are part of the "TEA parties", since you say "it's disingenuous to say that it's just a few people on the fringe".  This implies that the majority of the members are racists.  How can you know?  What are you sources?  It looks to me like it's more of a little confirmation bias going on here.

2. How many "TEA parties" are there, exactly, and how many of them sent reps to Nashville?  As a percentage of the whole?  Of those that attended, were they elected representatives of their specific groups, or were they interested people who happened to also belong to a local TEA party, who had the time and finances to attend the meeting?

No offense, brainiacsub, but most of what I've seen negative (from their opponents) about the "TEA parties" is a lot of supposition, assumptions, and confirmation biases at work, and not any real analysis.

Firm



slvemike4u -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 12:12:04 PM)

Not exactly a homogeneous representation of Americans at these little parties eh Firm?
How would one go about explaining this?
Coincidence ?....I'm sorry ,but I don't buy it...to me it looks like a like minded group who share the same values and have chosen to express those values loudly and proudly.....ceptin they don't want to discuss why they are predominately white !



FirmhandKY -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 12:51:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Here is Dale Robertson, a fiscally responsible racist...A Tea Party activist who operates http://www.teaparty.org/

[Mod edit: image removed from quote.]

How could anyone think that there might be a problem here?

That's right, Dale is one of those party crashers....LMAO!!!!


Hey, domi ... two can play that game ...

[image]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5919/blackmanteaparty.jpg[/image]

[image]http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/9035/csgteaparty1.jpg[/image]

[image]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2627/teaparty912dc12blowingm.jpg[/image]

Firm



FirmhandKY -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 12:54:06 PM)

FR:

Good video (kinda multisexual, multi-racial [8D]) of a TEA party challenge to Janeane Garofalo (short, too).

A black TEA partier's site.

Another black TEA party member.

Firm



slvemike4u -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 12:55:46 PM)

Have you ever heard the saying....."the exception that proves the rule"
Perhaps you have found some pictures of some exceptions?
Unless your point is that these are by and large racially diverse crowds ?...which we both know is simply not the case.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 1:02:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Have you ever heard the saying....."the exception that proves the rule"
Perhaps you have found some pictures of some exceptions?
Unless your point is that these are by and large racially diverse crowds ?...which we both know is simply not the case.


Anyone else have any pictures of TEA party members with signs that have the "n-word" on them (and LeRoachians don't count)?

Seems to me like the "exception that proves the rule" in relation to TEA parties and racists is that the few identified racists in the TEA party prove the rule that they aren't, as a group, racist.

*shakes head*

I'm still interested in how you guys come so easily to the conclusion that the TEA parties are based on racist motives, absent any real evidence. To me, racism is about making judgments about entire groups of people based on our own prejudices. That comes pretty close to what I see in the labeling of all - or the majority - or even "a lot of" the members are "racist" based on so little evidence.

Firm



slvemike4u -> RE: Tea Party Crashers (4/14/2010 1:08:30 PM)

The only "conclusion" I have definitely,absolutly reached is that these events are not a true representation of Americans.They are just too monochromatic to be so....when you are as purely white as Ivory soap.....something is amiss.
That sort of "sameness" is not arrived at accidentally there must be a reason for it....you object to labeling tea partiers as racists....fine,do you care to offer another explanation for their overwhelming "whiteness".This country is just too diverse for something like that to occur in a vacuum



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