quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

273,184,842,904.16 dollars at current prices.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



look if you cant answer it fine why all the fucking dancing around all the damn time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

I think jlf is wrong, in that we own alot less gold than most people think. I think alot of it is on paper, like futures. That means it's value depends on what others think it's value is. Since you can't eat it or burn it, I declare that in essence gold is actually a fiat currency as well. Nobody seems to understand that.

For example, if I took all my dollars and converted them to gold, and the went up to the gas station for a tankful, to get it I would have to reconvert the useless gold into useful paper. Doesn't anyone understand that simple fucking concept ? The thing is, once you grasp it you realize that for us, the commoners, it does not matter one iota if there is any gold in the world at all, except when it is used in the production of something useful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

I think jlf is wrong, in that we own alot less gold than most people think. I think alot of it is on paper, like futures. That means it's value depends on what others think it's value is. Since you can't eat it or burn it, I declare that in essence gold is actually a fiat currency as well. Nobody seems to understand that.

For example, if I took all my dollars and converted them to gold, and the went up to the gas station for a tankful, to get it I would have to reconvert the useless gold into useful paper. Doesn't anyone understand that simple fucking concept ? The thing is, once you grasp it you realize that for us, the commoners, it does not matter one iota if there is any gold in the world at all, except when it is used in the production of something useful.

Gold and even foreign currency are useful for those who deal across international borders, but that is only because the other traders (moneychangers) agree on it's value. Intrinsically it doesn't have all that much more value than lead. And surprisingly in the last few months in the US, lead would have been a better investment than gold.

I guess I'll just throw the ol philosopher's stone out, I have too much clutter around here. And I am not going to sit there taking apart car batteries and converting the lead to gold when I don't know what the value of gold will be when the process is over.

When I was young we got a puppy. It had been starved and neglected to the point that when we fed him we had to psysically push him periodically between the food bowl and the water bowl. That is what the manipulators of the world are doing to people. We did it for the dog's own good because he would eat or drink so fast and furious that he would puke. The people doing this to you do not have those altruistic motives.

And if this continues, you will wind up doing what my puppy did, get out and run in the street and get run over by a car.

Like it or not, that is my opinion.

T

quote:

Disadvantages to the gold standard
* A gold standard leads to deflation whenever an economy using the gold standard grows faster than the gold supply. When an economy grows faster than its money supply, the same money is used to execute a larger number of transactions. The only ways an economy can execute more transactions with the same amount of money are to execute transactions more quickly, and to lower the cost of the transactions. As deflation drives costs down, the value of each unit of money goes up. This increases the value of cash, but it decreases the value of assets, since the same asset can be purchased with less money. This in turn increases the ratio of debts to assets over time. For example, the monthly cost of a fixed-rate home mortgage stays the same, but the value of the house goes down, and the value of the dollars required to pay the mortgage goes up. In essence, deflation rewards cash savings, and discourages the use of loans to spur economic growth.
* The total amount of gold that has ever been mined has been estimated at around 142,000 metric tons.[15] Assuming a gold price of US$1,000 per ounce, or $32,500 per kilogram, the total value of all the gold ever mined would be around $4.5 trillion. This is less than the value of circulating money in the U.S. alone, where more than $8.3 trillion is in circulation or in deposit (M2). Therefore, a return to the gold standard, if also combined with a mandated end to fractional reserve banking, would result in a significant increase in the current value of gold, which may limit its use in current applications. For example, instead of using the ratio of $1,000 per ounce, the ratio can be defined as $2,000 per ounce effectively raising the value of gold to $9 trillion. However, this is specifically a disadvantage of return to the gold standard and not the efficacy of the gold standard itself. Some gold standard advocates consider this to be both acceptable and necessary[18] whilst others who are not opposed to fractional reserve banking argue that only base currency and not deposits would need to be replaced.[citation needed] The amount of such base currency (M0) is only about one tenth as much as the figure (M2) listed above.
* Many economists believe that economic recessions can be largely mitigated by increasing money supply during economic downturns. Following a gold standard would mean that the amount of money would be determined by the supply of gold, and hence monetary policy could no longer be used to stabilize the economy in times of economic recession. Such reason is often employed to partially blame the gold standard for the Great Depression, citing that the Federal Reserve couldn't expand credit enough to offset the deflationary forces at work in the market. Opponents of this viewpoint have argued that gold stocks were available to the Federal Reserve for credit expansion in the early 1930s. Fed operatives simply failed to utilize them. In this case, a causal factor of the Great Depression was not the gold standard but rather a politically usurped monetary system.
* Monetary policy would essentially be determined by the rate of gold production. Fluctuations in the amount of gold that is mined could cause inflation if there is an increase, or deflation if there is a decrease. Some hold the view that this contributed to the severity and length of the Great Depression.
* Some have contended that the gold standard may be susceptible to speculative attacks when a government's financial position appears weak. For example, some believe the United States was forced to raise its interest rates in the middle of the Great Depression to defend the credibility of its currency.
* If a country wanted to devalue its currency it would generally produce sharper changes than the smooth declines seen in fiat currencies, depending on the method of devaluation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

Disadvantages to the gold standard
* A gold standard leads to deflation whenever an economy using the gold standard grows faster than the gold supply.

that assumes you are operate bleeding edge and have no possible way to change the value of the gold, red herring.

When an economy grows faster than its money supply, the same money is used to execute a larger number of transactions.

Yep just like we have right now with the fiat frns. no different.

The only ways an economy can execute more transactions with the same amount of money are to execute transactions more quickly, and to lower the cost of the transactions.

wouldnt want the bank to make less money, hell we have computers they check your account in 10 milliseconds how much faster do they need it?  Another red herring

As deflation drives costs down, the value of each unit of money goes up.

WOW can have the money in hand gain value now can we?  Oh and only the value of gold is locked, while paper on the other hand cant be changed.... uhg ....also wrong word should have used prices not costs.

This increases the value of cash, but it decreases the value of assets,

This one is complete bullshit!  The assets directly ride with the money because the money is a hard asset.

since the same asset can be purchased with less money.

Whats different? fucking nothing!  When we are in an inflation cycle the same problem exists with paper.  When we are in a deflation cycle the same problem, exists with paper!  Another red herring

This in turn increases the ratio of debts to assets over time.

Yeh if you never ever ever never adjust either the value of gold ot the prices of product again the same shit would happen with the frns.

For example, the monthly cost of a fixed-rate home mortgage stays the same, but the value of the house goes down, and the value of the dollars required to pay the mortgage goes up.

Come on jlf who is the fucking idiot that wrote this.  There is no difference between the way gold would function and paper. red herring

In essence, deflation rewards cash savings, and discourages the use of loans to spur economic growth.

same shit red herring

* The total amount of gold that has ever been mined has been estimated at around 142,000 metric tons.[15] Assuming a gold price of US$1,000 per ounce, or $32,500 per kilogram, the total value of all the gold ever mined would be around $4.5 trillion.

Well than value it at 1 million per ounce now we got enough to support the whole world in spades.

This is less than the value of circulating money in the U.S. alone, where more than $8.3 trillion is in circulation or in deposit (M2). Therefore, a return to the gold standard, if also combined with a mandated end to fractional reserve banking, would result in a significant increase in the current value of gold, which may limit its use in current applications.

yada yada

For example, instead of using the ratio of $1,000 per ounce, the ratio can be defined as $2,000 per ounce effectively raising the value of gold to $9 trillion. However, this is specifically a disadvantage of return to the gold standard and not the efficacy of the gold standard itself.

huh? was that really supposed to mean somehting of value?

Some gold standard advocates consider this to be both acceptable and necessary[18] whilst others who are not opposed to fractional reserve banking argue that only base currency and not deposits would need to be replaced.[citation needed] The amount of such base currency (M0) is only about one tenth as much as the figure (M2) listed above.

Lets not talk about M1 LOL

* Many economists believe that economic recessions can be largely mitigated by increasing money supply during economic downturns.

in other words inflating the money and decreasing its value.  What the hell no one cares that they can steal 30 % of your money in 10 years and you are none the wiser.

Following a gold standard would mean that the amount of money would be determined by the supply of gold, and hence monetary policy could no longer be used to stabilize the economy in times of economic recession.

same shit red herring many otherways to deal with it other than stupid

Such reason is often employed to partially blame the gold standard for the Great Depression, citing that the Federal Reserve couldn't expand credit enough to offset the deflationary forces at work in the market.

Nice after barnake came right out and admitted it was the feds fault.  well it was a hell of a lot more than "just" the feds but ok barnake.

Opponents of this viewpoint have argued that gold stocks were available to the Federal Reserve for credit expansion in the early 1930s. Fed operatives simply failed to utilize them. In this case, a causal factor of the Great Depression was not the gold standard but rather a politically usurped monetary system.
* Monetary policy would essentially be determined by the rate of gold production. Fluctuations in the amount of gold that is mined could cause inflation if there is an increase, or deflation if there is a decrease. Some hold the view that this contributed to the severity and length of the Great Depression.

Oh yeh we would be totally at the mercy of how fast the miners can bring it out of the ground.  Pretending there would be no regulation.

this shit is a farce.  laughably stoopid.

* Some have contended that the gold standard may be susceptible to speculative attacks when a government's financial position appears weak. For example, some believe the United States was forced to raise its interest rates in the middle of the Great Depression to defend the credibility of its currency.

Maybe susceptable to alien attack too!  Simply remove it as a commodity.

* If a country wanted to devalue its currency it would generally produce sharper changes than the smooth declines seen in fiat currencies, depending on the method of devaluation.

Thats all due to management and has nothing to do with the basis.

This probably wont make much of a difference to Real, who thinks he knows it all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yup, Real knows everything and everybody else that does not agree with him are wrong and stupid. I called that one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

A banknote is not an IOU, it is a promissory note; the former is non negotiable, the latter is.

E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"This increases the value of cash, but it decreases the value of assets,

This one is complete bullshit!  The assets directly ride with the money because the money is a hard asset. "

Wrong. The value of real assets only changes under certain circumstances, supply and demand among the strongest of influences. In the case of assets that are not locally available transpotation costs must be built into the price for example.

In any case it is not the value of any goods or services that has changed drastically, it is the value of the currency. If you think pegging the currency solidly to the value of any commodity is the solution, how about wheat ? Then we can grow more and gain true wealth. And is it not true wealth ? If so, then it is. If not then all theories of economics and trade are summarily dismissable, because the basic logic behind it all is flawed.

T

quote:

or by order of any:

court,

judge, or

justice

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Jesus, Real, every time you post on legal matters makes it more apparent that you have no idea of the concepts behind the text.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Jesus, Real, every time you post on legal matters makes it more apparent that you have no idea of the concepts behind the text.

Spoken like a true uninformed system slave and clueless to the fact as well.

Its clear you dont "remotely" understand what you just said.

You dont realize it but these fuckers are so hard up they even go after other agents who properly perform their jobs within the law when I deal with them to attempt to obstruct and stonewall "LAWFUL" remedies.  get it?  nah...

You see tards really dont know the difference and are incapable of discernment.  Well maybe not completely.  I mean I am sure they know how to use the left right buttons on their xbox.