The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!!

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The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/20/2010 9:01:10 PM

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Okay, so I've been in and out of the BDSM lifestyle for a while now. I've been owned by two Masters and have had a couple of playmates on the side, including a slave sister in a poly house. The idea of forced anything I didn't really know anything about until I starting going through the CM profiles and I just can't wrap my mind around it. A lot of times it has to deal with "forced bi" but I think there have been other things along the same lines.

My question is simple, when you're a sub/slave/bottom looking for someone and you put "loves forced bi" on your profile.... if you're saying you love it, how is it forced? O.o I'm not being judgemental, I just honestly don't understand. Or the Dom/Master/Top saying your other half will be subject to "forced bi". If they are okay with it, how is it "forced"?

I mean I know that with our chosen subculture here that there really isn't much "forced" on people because we still legally have the right to say no. But some clarification on this would be really helpful. It's something that I don't understand, and I'd really like to.

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RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/20/2010 9:08:19 PM

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they like to act like they do not want to.

(in reply to Steelslilbit)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 1:39:13 AM

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I find more male subs are into this than female ones.
It would normally mean they have bi forced fantasies and love those fantasies. In their heads that doesn't make them bi!
Like you said, there really is no such thing as forced within this lifestyle but if they can get it into their heads that, that is whats happening then they are still not bi!
Saying that, some people really do sexually get off on doing something that they find repugnant.
Forcing another woman to go down on me would be a 'BIG' turn off for me. I want her there because I desire her and she desires me and so within my household forced bi would never happen.

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RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 8:29:02 AM

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I imagine it would be something like forcing a soft limit. For exampe if you said to your dominant you did not like to do foot worship and he was into it and during scene he 'forced' you to do it and you enjoyed it not for the act itself but because he had told you to.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 8:48:22 AM

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I suppose that makes a little more sense to me now. I've asked some people that I know offline about it, but most of them were just as confused about the whole idea as I was. Probably doesn't help that none of the people I know are into it, and none of us know anyone who is. Kinda hard to find answers to questions that no one has any real time experience with. x.x

Thanks for your answers, I appreciate everyone who takes the time to stop and message on these boards. :D

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i'll try anything once, twice if i like it.

If you wanna know you better ask, and if i don't want to answer i won't.

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RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 10:10:03 AM

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They want a fantasy role playing scene.

Lemme put it this way. Taboos are easier to swallow if the "Devil" (Top) makes them do it. Say a girl really wants to be slapped around,hand cuffed,thrown down and buttfucked without lube (play rape). But that's just too tame. So to top it off-he then pisses up her ass-diapers her and throws her into a cage-still handcuffed so she can't take them off.

Then video tapes it and teases her mercilessly while she tries to avoid shitting herself-unsuccessfully. She's having brain orgasms the whole time this is all going on. It's every twisted thing she ever dreamed of-but was too afraid to ask for-for fear of being rejected.

But she was "forced", so the burden is off of her shoulders.

Personally-I don't need to force anyone to do anything-but it's sexual pshychodrama.

< Message edited by Smutmonger -- 4/21/2010 10:16:47 AM >

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RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 11:41:20 AM

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quote:

They want a fantasy role playing scene.

Lemme put it this way. Taboos are easier to swallow if the "Devil" (Top) makes them do it. Say a girl really wants to be slapped around,hand cuffed,thrown down and buttfucked without lube (play rape). But that's just too tame. So to top it off-he then pisses up her ass-diapers her and throws her into a cage-still handcuffed so she can't take them off.

Then video tapes it and teases her mercilessly while she tries to avoid shitting herself-unsuccessfully. She's having brain orgasms the whole time this is all going on. It's every twisted thing she ever dreamed of-but was too afraid to ask for-for fear of being rejected.

But she was "forced", so the burden is off of her shoulders.

Personally-I don't need to force anyone to do anything-but it's sexual pshychodrama.

Thanks for that response Smutmonger, a bit of a graphic way but it definitely drives the point home and makes the whole concept a bit more understandable. Perhaps your last statement is one reason why this isn't something I could easily grasp. As a Dominant I don't need to force a submissive to do anything, I'd rather we both enjoy what we are doing. And as a submissive I know those kinds of situations are beyond my ability to accept. That'd be a great instance of me switching roles on a dime during a scene, or at least of me ending it right on the spot. So thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. ^.^

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i'll try anything once, twice if i like it.

If you wanna know you better ask, and if i don't want to answer i won't.

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(in reply to Smutmonger)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 11:47:02 AM

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There are a lot of dissonaces in D/s kinks.

Like the "domissive"........the woman who claims to want to submit to her dom in ALL TINGS TWUE!!!!!!!

After he jumps through the twelve pages of hoops she wrote,containing the explicit details defining every aspect of his thought and behavior-with numbered photographs matching the footnoted annotations in the text.

But he is in TOTAL CONTROL.......really!!!!!!!

< Message edited by Smutmonger -- 4/21/2010 11:51:21 AM >

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RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 2:58:04 PM

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I hear ya there. But it's not just with the female gender, what with the hoop jumping and the like for the doms. I've seen more than one guy try pulling the same thing, or girls wanting to submit to other girls as well. Letting someone know you have limits is different from handing them a manual saying "This is the only way you'll get to be my Dom". And dominants thought they had a monopoly on running the show. ^.^

Sometimes I think it's fantastic how our vocabulary is so flexible, that our definitions aren't so much ridged things to conform to as much as general guidelines that everyone has their own take on. And sometimes I remember that it's easier to speak English knowing there's a Websters Dictionary out there. x.x But don't mind me, I'm a bisexual switch who's also an inconsistant female Libra. LOL.

_____________________________

i'll try anything once, twice if i like it.

If you wanna know you better ask, and if i don't want to answer i won't.

Offical Language: Caryn-ese
(Translator available upon request)

(in reply to Smutmonger)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 3:01:36 PM

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I don't worry about the fantasy D/s stuff. I am an artist at heart. Stereotypes are like "paint by the numbers" pictures. You stay inside of the lines-and you end up with a page full of shit,in limited hues.

I work with a multitude of ideas and genres, and my pallette has no limits.

I look at the canvas first.

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RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/21/2010 5:39:41 PM

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All I know is all I can know:

I like what I like, I don't like what I don't like, and I'm willing to try the things I've never tried at least once (with a few OCD caused exceptions). As for the rest of it, I just take it day by day and learn what I can. I'm just glad there is a place like these forums that I can ask questions without getting too harassed. Some harassment is expected, of course. ^.^

_____________________________

i'll try anything once, twice if i like it.

If you wanna know you better ask, and if i don't want to answer i won't.

Offical Language: Caryn-ese
(Translator available upon request)

(in reply to Smutmonger)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/25/2010 4:58:49 PM

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most experiences where i've been in control, i can get away with almost anything and have never reached the other person's limits. afterwords i am often thanked so... yeah, i'm rather unwitting about all of it and rely exclusively on impulsive action. i rarely go into something thinking i'm going to tie my girlfriend at the time up to the showerhead that's blasting ice cold water, and i never ask for any title. "master" or "sir" or once even "god" (that pushed my limits a bit) just seem to come out of the mouth of whomsoever i happen to be with. it's a euphoric feeling when you can make someone embrace exactly what you have come up with- even better when it's completely spur of the moment.

so from my perspective, having "forced" lots of things, it's really not forced- it's just something, under different circumstances, that you could never get that person to do. it sort of goes back, and i really do hate to bring it up without adequately softening its context, the "no means yes" theory that's been buzzing around as a male vs female situational logic. eg "when a girl says no, she really means yes". well sirs and gentlemen, sometimes you're right- but unless you really have a feel for that person, don't assume ANYTHING like that.

that said, coercion is a big part of sex in general and very few people have kinks that line up perfectly with their partners. however, in just the right circumstances, damn near anything is possible.

(in reply to Steelslilbit)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/25/2010 8:31:35 PM

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All of the different responses I've gotten to this here makes me very glad that I chose the switch boards to post it on.
Thanks for adding your two cents Subversed. I appreciate the input. ^.^

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i'll try anything once, twice if i like it.

If you wanna know you better ask, and if i don't want to answer i won't.

Offical Language: Caryn-ese
(Translator available upon request)

(in reply to Subversed)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/25/2010 8:39:49 PM

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Often when I read someone states they are into forced activity x or y, it may not be a case that they hate that specific activity but do enjoy it yet it's that role play concept of their dominant ordering them to do a certain activity. I don't believe it's the activity that they want to be forced to do but that authority struggle which is the real reason for the 'forced" kink they have.

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Take the pain
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(in reply to Steelslilbit)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/25/2010 9:54:41 PM

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[/sizeplease disregard my first post i do apologizes, since then I've read more post, seen some eloquently written some blisteringly on point, and will try to live up to the high standers starting with this one.
Regarding SwitchDom I liked how how smutmonger put it "my palette has no limits" with some reservation about the canvas, we don't get blank canvas, ill default to Michelangelo " Every block of stone has a statue inside it and it is the task of the sculptor to discover it. One of a few true genius a master of multipliable disciplines. This is how i view my role as Switch, skilled in multipliable disciplines even tho i feel like a red headed stepchild in this community something akin to diet D/s, a 3 in one tool that works doesn't work well or as it's been stated before greedy. :) I'm none of theses. As Switch im bleesed with skill to create a Michelangelo's "David" be depraved enough to create Salvador Dali Young Virgin Auto-Sodomized by the Horns of her Own Chastity. I believe its my choice what i surrender, its my partner's skill of "seduction " in either role which lets me surrender willingly. Using smutmonger's explainnation of forced. " It's every twisted thing she ever dreamed of-but was too afraid to ask for-for fear of being rejected." takes me back to Michelangelo. What can be create is already present it's the skill that brings it forth.
I WISH/Choose to believe that a Switch is unusually respectful, honest, truthful almost to a fault. Example.There is a 1000 ways to say fuck you I prefer to choose the more eloquent.

A proud Switch

Practice safe text were latex gloves
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(in reply to Wolf2Bear)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/26/2010 8:39:51 AM

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I like *physically* struggling, whether I get genuinely overpowered or not. It's hot having my muscles straining against him or her to their limit, being reduced emotionally to a feral, animalistic place, biting, scratching, feeling scared or agressive or passionate or just primal. It can go in a "fantasy-rape" direction at times, or be redirected into other forms of play.

(in reply to TomCypress)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/26/2010 12:48:31 PM

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I think it's simple, really, Steelslilbit. The idea of 'forced' - [insert 'feminisation', 'bi', 'service', whatever] - in BDSM involves ambivalence - contradictory feelings, contradictory thoughts. The confusion only arises because people take it for granted that contradictory feelings and thoughts shouldn't - or even can't - exist. They 'shouldn't exist' because this seems 'unreasonable' and 'illogical'. But, since when has anything been involved in sexual desires been reasonable and logical? They 'can't exist' because this is somehow how the human mind is assumed to work. But the human mind is the most complicated thing in the known universe. How the hell did that assumption - of the mind being like a machine whose ultimately reasonable purpose must be knowable and definable - arise?

Take the usual sub's story. He wants to take control of his life, control over his buzz and what turns him on. So he comes here, to CM, to find someone to, er, control him? Irrational.

BDSM is full of contradictions, right to the very core. We can't get resolve them all, so we might just as well have fun with those that we can't. My own little tip for a start towards getting to that position is to look at those on CM who are saying to you, 'Your kink is unreasonable', and say, 'Yeah right. Look who's talking'.

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(in reply to Steelslilbit)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 4/26/2010 3:52:17 PM

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@steels: Thank you very much. i like to put as much forward as i can with "arguments" in any favor.

@tom: Well said. an adult and mature switch who is steadfast.
i'm rather annoyed with the stereotype that switches are just undecided or kinky vanilla people. it's similar to a person being bisexual- very few, compared to gays or straight people, are actually bisexual. however, it's real.

switches have managed to be a "subculture within a subculture" where we are somehow looked down upon by many dominants and many submissives. (but shouldn't the subbies be looking up? lol.)
having said that, i notice it's a stigma i only encounter with "communities" be they online or otherwise- and very rarely is it a stigma i encounter face-to-face. (as in, i have never encountered a dom or sub that has hinted in any way shape or form that my status as a switch is in any way a lesser preference.)

so, a subculture within a subculture. are switches actually discriminated against? well, yes and no. closed-mindedness still exists within an environment based on personal freedom, and anywhere else you put two people with like-minds.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 5/1/2010 2:05:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steelslilbit

My question is simple, when you're a sub/slave/bottom looking for someone and you put "loves forced bi" on your profile.... if you're saying you love it, how is it forced? O.o I'm not being judgemental, I just honestly don't understand. Or the Dom/Master/Top saying your other half will be subject to "forced bi". If they are okay with it, how is it "forced"?

I'm an s-type without "loves forced bi" on my profile, but I do think the concept of "forced" activities in BDSM is valid. At least for me, being ordered to do something by a dominant (which in my opinion qualifies as "force", as long as there are going to be consequences for disobedience) is a significantly different experience from just doing that same thing on my own. Doing dishes is boring; being told to do the dishes by a dominant, and knowing I'm under an obligation to obey, can bring out tingly feelings of subservience. I'm not quite ready to present myself to the world as someone who "loves forced dishwashing", but it's true that adding some authority to the equation can turn dishwashing into an erotic experience. The logic is exactly the same for things that are a lot more intrinsically unpleasant/painful/humiliating/scary than dishwashing, except that the feelings involved are more intense.

(in reply to Steelslilbit)

RE: The concept of "forced"...CONFUSED!! - 5/1/2010 3:12:26 PM

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Um actually...

the appeal of "forced" is/can be that the sub in question actually does NOT like the specific activity, however they do very much like the fact that someone has the power to make them do something they do not like.

Mind you plenty of people do use it as a gateway to fantasies they can't quite yet embrace on their own, but not always.

Hasn't anyone here ever submitted to something they don't like because it was what their partner wanted?

Same mentality, just clouded by a bit more controversy.

(in reply to Steelslilbit)

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