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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 2:30:56 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

@Dave, IIRC, Polish potatoes have always been banned due to some potato disease or other, that was just a re-banning, necessitated by Polands ascension to the EU in '04.

Spot on Woody. It was due to an infestation of ringwot in the Polish crop, in 2003. It spreads easily and would thrive in the UK`s damp summer.....err climate.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 3:37:14 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

So that indicates the spirit of the law is what then ?

T

What do you mean spirit of the law? Or are you asking what it's intending to do?

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 4:45:17 AM

DCWoody

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Well I think that answers Termies mumblings, ta polite.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 5:12:29 AM

SohCahToa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
....no wonder our prisons are full

How many people are in prison for importing illegal potatoes or impersonating a traffic warden?

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 6:00:48 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

I don't have a problem with polish potatoes being banned.
Do you understand why they are? And many of the other laws that you included - like the squirral one? As a person as 'earthy' as yourself, I would have thought that you would support it as well.

the.dark.

I also do not have a problem with Polish potatoes being banned, and I do know why, but in my OP I was attempting to draw attention to laws that have been created that in reality make no sense, in effect, someone is being paid to fill our statute books with rubbish. I mean in the link provided, at the top of the list of examples, it is now illegal to cause a nuclear explosion, further down the list, it states that a person may not enter the hull of the Titanic without permission from the secretary of state.

What is wrong with those two examples, well simply aside from the military, who goes around causing nuclear explosions and if they did would there by anyone left to initiate finding the culprit and prosecute them, does this law apply to persons in other countries, other nationalities, would other countries implement this law for us or is the Act in effect a waste of words.

The Titanic, given the depth the vessel is lying at some 12,600 feet, not mentioning the coldness of the sea, can a human being operate at that depth without special mechanised undersea craft and furthermore why would they given remote viewing vehicles are available and more useful than a human ever could be underwater. Does this law apply to foreign nationals, or is it for Britons only. Furthermore if should a Briton enter the vessel and come back under a furore of puplic sensation at discoveries made and feat accomplished, is the plod going to dim the day and arrest the person because we have a law that stops Britons entering the wreck of the Titanic.

As to the potato issue, if they are banned already, why bother going to the trouble of criminalising the importation, surely it was in the nature of banning, already, or is it the Labour government is so concerned with the minutae, the dotting the i's and crossing the t's, the attempt to make everything and anything no matter how bizarre and senseless it seems to Joe Public as effective as possible in statute only.

Who knows, many of us Britons could even be breaking statutes in these forums, surely many of us could be deemed guilty of sedition, just like our media industry who informs us.

But as to squirrels, my thoughts are, what lives and thrives in our enviroment despite what we throw at it, leave it the fuck alone as surely natural selection is at work. Everytime we feel we have to manage animal kind, we are perhaps unknowingly upsetting the balance that has over the years been created naturally in nature. Also just because something was not in the past native to these islands, that does not mean we have the right to manage and create what we think is how nature should be, there is no chocolate box ideal, nature is what it is warts and all and is continuously evolving.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 6:06:20 AM

SohCahToa

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I thought it was illegal to use explosives without a licence but since it only applies to nuclear explosions I guess I can do a study to see if grey squirrels can act as suicide bombers.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 7:29:30 AM

RCdc

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quote:

But as to squirrels, my thoughts are, what lives and thrives in our enviroment despite what we throw at it, leave it the fuck alone as surely natural selection is at work. Everytime we feel we have to manage animal kind, we are perhaps unknowingly upsetting the balance that has over the years been created naturally in nature. Also just because something was not in the past native to these islands, that does not mean we have the right to manage and create what we think is how nature should be, there is no chocolate box ideal, nature is what it is warts and all and is continuously evolving.

Squirrels are thee classic example of why these laws should exist. Because they aren't a native but arrived through unrestricted imports putting much native wildlife in danger. So bang goes that theory.

What's so pointless about these laws? If the titanic was boarded by another country or a national - then maybe this law might deter - who the fuck knows? Honestly - anyone sensible person knows that if you are going to get involved with a historical piece - be it a boat or a rock - then they need to check out the legalities because unless you own said piece, it's tresspass. But I don't see what's pointless about making rules and laws. Yes, people who bring illegal items into countries should pay the price and if thats criminalising and if you are going to claim 'I didn't know' - well tough quite frankly.

quote:

What is wrong with those two examples, well simply aside from the military, who goes around causing nuclear explosions

Yes - who does? Mind you, people thought only the military and airline pilots can fly and control large planes. Gosh how silly THAT assumption was.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 4/23/2010 7:31:07 AM >

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 7:34:15 AM

SohCahToa

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The problem with UK law is that it tries to be too specific to close loopholes.

Instead of this need to strictly define the law the judges at appeals courts should be more draconian about the legal interpretation. It's utter nonsense to talk of nuclear explosions when there are existing laws to deal with such events.

I think this is what Aneirin was getting at.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 7:40:17 AM

LadyEllen

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There are rules for statutory interpretation - not since Lord Denning has it been en vogue to make it up as you go along

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 7:45:12 AM

SohCahToa

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The law is an ass because there is the word of the law and the spirit of the law.

Any law can be interpreted in a beneficial unintended way to a defendant so you'll be chasing your tail and coming up with new and improved definitions of the law until the cows come home; if that is your approach. Human beings have always needed to interpret the law on some level.

< Message edited by SohCahToa -- 4/23/2010 7:57:16 AM >

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 7:51:31 AM

Aneirin

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The grey and the black squirrel being imports into our country putting our native wildlife in danger, who says ? Perhaps it is the red squirrel has had it's day, it has failed to adapt to changing circumstances and so is being pushed out in favour of the new invaders. Even without man's intervention in bringing foreign creatures to this country it has happened by nature, creatures like people migrate and find new homes and if there is resistence to them being there, they like humans fight for their right to exist.

Click here to find a list of wild creatures now found in the UK which are not native to these islands

By my reckoning, some 86 seperate species encompassing mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish and invertebrates, what makes the red squirrel so important, why has it been selected for special protection at the expense of other creatures ? Dare I say, it is because it looks cute and is in peoples recent memory that there were loads of them about at one time, where there doesn't seem to be many these days.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 7:52:53 AM

Arpig

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quote:

Then riddle me this batman. Polish potatoes are illegal to import into England. Why do they grow them then ? If they are supposed to eat them or export them to other countries, how can they be dangerous ? And if they are not dangerous why would they be illegal if the spirit of the law was actually to protect the people ?

For the same reason you can't bring citrus fruits into the US...when crossing the border years ago they made us throw out a bag of Florida oranges we had in the car...that's right Florida oranges, you can't even bring them back into the US. Nor can you bring any citrus fruits into California from neighbouring states...its to protect the crops.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 8:03:41 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The grey and the black squirrel being imports into our country putting our native wildlife in danger, who says ? Perhaps it is the red squirrel has had it's day, it has failed to adapt to changing circumstances and so is being pushed out in favour of the new invaders. Even without man's intervention in bringing foreign creatures to this country it has happened by nature, creatures like people migrate and find new homes and if there is resistence to them being there, they like humans fight for their right to exist.

Click here to find a list of wild creatures now found in the UK which are not native to these islands

By my reckoning, some 86 seperate species encompassing mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish and invertebrates, what makes the red squirrel so important, why has it been selected for special protection at the expense of other creatures ? Dare I say, it is because it looks cute and is in peoples recent memory that there were loads of them about at one time, where there doesn't seem to be many these days.

I cannot believe that you think that A.

Migration is far different to unrestricted importation. I am shocked and disgusted that someone can think that bringing a non native product into any country is 'ok' just because of 'natural selection'. Such a selfish attitude to have.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 8:06:23 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SohCahToa

The law is an ass because there is the word of the law and the spirit of the law.

Any law can be interpreted in a beneficial unintended way to a defendant so you'll be chasing your tail and coming up with new and improved definitions of the law until the cows come home; if that is your approach. Human beings have always needed to interpret the law on some level.

Maybe the law has to be an ass because many people are just too stupid.

the.dark.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 8:43:32 AM

Aneirin

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I have learned, where nature is concerned, people are better leaving it alone, as we do not know or even understand the intricacies of what nature does. We don't yet understand our own species, so why think we know about the wild creatures. Our best bet as far as I can see, is basically in what we do, have a thought for other forms of life where it exists, ( which is basically everywhere as nature is so adaptable),and if we want to promote wild life in Britain, think of others before ourselves, in others, I am indicating other life forms.

So, we have these new creatures out living wild in the enviroment, creatures that came via migration and stayed, creatures that were brought in as produce and there escaped or were let free or by whatever other means, they are not native to these shores, what are we to do about them, let them live and become part of our rich tapestry of wild life, or seek out and destroy anything that we know comes from abroad.

Fine given the publicity about the grey squirrels and red squirrels, I suppose not many would mind if actions were taken to eradicate the grey species, but if that was taken as a maxim, the intent to eradicate other non native species, would the public have much or any stomach for the authorised destruction of other creatures,( some of them similarly cute and cuddly), just because they are not native.

And say we did successfully eradicate non native creatures in our country, what would that do to the balance of nature, something suddenly going from the food chain or even enviroment management chain ( for wild animals do manage their enviroment ),do we know enough to recreate a balance, or are we best just leaving well alone and letting nature decide what thrives and what decays.

But going further on this, what about all the native British creatures man in his history has eradicated, the grey wolf, the cave bear, the wolverine, cave lion , the aurochs and a great many other creatures that we know became extinct in Britain, what about these, do we reintroduce them, as it makes sense that if we were trying to get the wildlife in Britain back to how it was, we also do our best to reintroduce extinct species, just like the successful reintroduction of the Red Kite.

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 4/23/2010 8:45:28 AM >

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 10:00:16 AM

xbrand

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To add to your 'Over Thinking'...just follow the money. It's as simple as that.

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RE: Polish potatoes unlawful in Britain - 4/23/2010 10:38:56 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I have learned, where nature is concerned, people are better leaving it alone, as we do not know or even understand the intricacies of what nature does.

And there you have it - you answered your own question.
Without these laws, then people won't leave alone. Simple as that.

the.dark.

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