RE: Beer substitute ?

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Moonhead -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 7:58:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LittleBroken I was thinking of Root/Ginger Beer. It's refreshing, has the same sort of brewed flavor and it develops the same sort of creamy head when poured out into a glass. That way you don't miss out on the whole ritual of sitting down with a glass in your hand at the end of the day, which in and of itself is very soothing. That's a good notion. Ginger beer might be a bit too sweet, though.

Musicmystery -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 11:15:51 AM)
quote: I'm of two minds here. That's because you're lumping together multiple situations and treating them as all the same. [This "debate" reminds me of the people who drop by here briefly and then post to complain CM is nothing by scammers, fakes, and wannabes. You know--the clueless people we laugh at for their hasty ignorance?] There's a world of difference between the habit of downing a few too many beers and someone with a serious drinking problem. There's a world of difference between addressing a bad habit and overcoming an addiction. There's a wealth of medical science on alcoholism that you're ignoring completely. You're also ignoring that not everyone with a drinking problem is an alcoholic necessarily. You're ignoring that an alcoholic faces a different situation than someone merely drinking too much, that, in fact, chemical and biological physiology is different, and calls for different measures and different cautions. There's a lot of reference here to statistical claims but without any presented evidence. In some ways, it's unfortunate that courts mandate AA attendance---someone recently busted for DUI, given the choice of jail or AA, is not going to merrily waltz off to the nearest meeting and come back a changed person with a rosy account. Hardly. It's a recipe for a negative and harsh assessment born of resentment. Duh. Bottomline, your "cult" take is born of ignorance, misinformation, and mischaracterization. Only one participant in this discussion has any real experience over time with the group, and that person is not the one displaying any of this nonsense. If you want to drink, then drink. If you need to cut down, then cut down. If you find you need a substitute, check 'em out (I like fruit juice and seltzer personally--fruit juice at first to replace the missed sugars from the alcohol, and seltzer because I like the fizz without the sweetness or sodium of sodas). If you need help cutting down, that's suspect, but sure, bad habits can be overcome by any number of means. And if you're unable to stop, and are ready to recognize that this is a problem, help is available for this as well. And for those who want it, a group of people who have been there done that get together to hang out and hash out life, including levity and laughter, with people they've grown to like and call friends. If that's a "cult" to you, then so is the Elks Club. Or if it bothers anyone that yes, an alcoholic is going to have to lay off the booze, both from medical science and the long list of alcoholics who picked up right where they left off after forgetting this, maybe take a look at why other people not drinking poses such a challenge to you. There are worse practices. If it's not for you, that's not surprising--it's not for many people, including alcoholics who could seriously use the help and instead drink themselves to death. And others will stop drinking by other means, because they are able to do so. Still others will enjoy a lifetime of drinking responsibly. But if others joining together to overcome their addictions is a problem for anyone, really, you should ask yourself why. Just what is the problem? Because the problem there is yours. Live and let live. Some do it sober. It's OK.

Termyn8or -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 7:57:53 PM)
No matter what, this little experiment should tell me two things - if I am indeed a slave to alcohol and how beer affects my health. Alcohol has been part of my life for a long time, especially beer. I don't even drink strong beers, let alone whiskey, except very rarely. The last time I drank whiskey I threw my keys across the room into my bedroom losing them of course. Then I proceeded. No trouble at all. But that's over now. I used to love getting laid off. It happened many years and it was close to industry wide. So I could expect a check until my benefits ran out. Or close. I don't think I ever got on one of those extensions, the layoffs wouldn't last long enough, but they lasted long enough I could get some good partying in. And I know my employer paid for the UI insurance, but I have never had a paid vacation in my life so we're even. At any rate, it never seemed to bother me physically. I don't get hangovers, and alcohol does not act as a depressant or "downer" to me. It may be that my body converts it to sugars, because I avoid sugar and will not ingest refined sugar. It is a possibility, so it would be a good thing to get some natural source, fruit juices and such. Actual water ? I think that depends on the individual. Most foods are mostly water, but how much can be absorbed is another story. Water is a different issue, because there are some things that just exude juice right in one's mouth. Surely this is treated as liquid by the body. Others though, with different eating styles, will have different needs. One thing that is clear to me, beer has become too high a percentage of my liquid intake, and that is going to change no matter what. Soon, I'll go to the store and see what I can find, buy a couple of acceptable kinds and try them all. I'll have a list of all the suggestions here and see what I can find. T

slvemike4u -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 8:26:59 PM)
Don't exactly know what bonnet got in your saddle Tim.....but I'll offer an opinion any time I feel like it.....and I just might not bother giving you the details of how I have formed that opinion.I might just consider that too personal....sometimes you might not agree with those opinions. But please don't try to tell me how I have reached that opinion......you don't have a clue as to the wealth of resources I have on this subject....and I don't feel like proving my bonafides to you.....I posted some opinions....if they have somehow insulted some belief system you hold onto.....I apologise....but people sometimes draw different conclusion based on life experiences that just might have been wildly different than your's...so you are going to have to deal with that.

Musicmystery -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 8:30:59 PM)
No saddle bonnets, no problem with opinions, no jumping to conclusions other than what's presented in this thread, not insulted, and no need to deal. Whatever has you going is coming from you, mike. You'll have to own it yourself. I'm good with my stuff.

slvemike4u -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 8:37:08 PM)
"Bottomline, your "cult" take is born of ignorance, misinformation, and mischaracterization. Only one participant in this discussion has any real experience over time with the group, and that person is not the one displaying any of this nonsense. " No...Tim the above is yours to own......I on the other hand have no axe to grind....with You or coincidentally with AA...but despite what you called my "ignorance" I will still claim they are ,in many ways, "cult like". Denying that such comparisons can be made....brings to mind that "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt". ;-)

Musicmystery -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 8:39:04 PM)
I stand by it. Why wouldn't I? Nothing has changed. Your tirade, mike. Whatever the reason.

slvemike4u -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 8:46:22 PM)
Tirade....Lol...give me a break...I offered some opinions...you labeled then born of ignorance and misinformation...your claims,if you see it some other way.....we are back to the "river" thing Tim. But fuck it.....I'm too happy tonight to give a fuck.....have a good night. lol.

Musicmystery -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 8:51:24 PM)
Well, mike...they are. Sorry, but you don't hold a free pass on unsupported opinions, whatever your reasons for not choosing to support them. Price of posting on a public forum. Seriously, if someone tried that in another thread, you'd be all over them. Enjoy your night.

slvemike4u -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 9:02:59 PM)
If someone offerd up as "fact" and refused to support those "facts" yes I would be all over them....I offered opinions....you care to dispute or disagree with them.....again all cool,I got no issues. You tell me my opinions are born of ignorance and misinformation I will tell you that you are completely ignorant of where and how my opinions were formed. You don't see it that way....fine it's not worth the argument tonight....it's been a long cold day ,I probably contracted double pneumonia at Yankee Stadium...and the only thing I'm really doing here is dropping into my "chance to brag " thread(shameless self promoting)...this beer/AA thing is just a stop in between posting there.

Termyn8or -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/12/2010 9:15:55 PM)
"in many ways, "cult like". " I can see that perception, and that is what it is. They require a certain attitude. That is on base - the desire to stop drinking. If you go there without that attitude they will do everything they can to instill it. They will try to ensure your attendance via the use of a "sponsor" who acts on the outside, and is chosen only to reinforce their beliefs. They have chosen to accept enforced attendance, via probation orders and the like, even when you meet none of their other criteria. This is to give them a chance to sell themselves. If I were the head of AA I would forbid any of those papers that probationers or parolees have to carry to ensure compliance. After all, what does the second A stand for in AA ? Defeats the whole purpose. They have a program, you've of course heard of the 12 steps. It is purported to be the only way to achieve, that which must be your goal of course. But all in all, they can only recount their stories about their own downfalls. What of those who are there because their doctor told them their liver was so bad that even one more drink will kill them ? Do they meet the qualifications in the face of death ? I think not and if they were able physically they would be in the bar having a good time. But something happened. Some people like cults. I would say that Catholicism would qualify just as much. And all these people are tring to do is to help others. You can't fault them for that, but the fact is that their methods do not work for everyone. For normal people AA is probably one of the best things going. For others it is a waste of time. Just don't ever even think that I am normal. T

Moonhead -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/13/2010 6:30:59 AM)
Is it worth pointing out that people who've gone through the AA thing are a lot less prone to falling off the wagon again than people who've quit under their own steam? I think what's getting described as a cult here is more of a support group, and really, the whole aim is modifying long established habits, so of course some of it's going to come across as a little heavy handed. It wouldn't work if it wasn't.

mnottertail -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/13/2010 6:33:55 AM)
Moonhead, I have never seen any independant verification of that, and I am thinking that I am gonna sorta doubt that.

Moonhead -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/13/2010 6:53:55 AM)
I remember seeing some figures a few years back, though I'm not sure how independent they are. It isn't like they're a front for the $cientologists like Narcanon, so the cult thing seems a bit misjudged.

angelikaJ -> RE: Beer substitute ? (5/13/2010 7:34:49 AM)
Termy, You wanted something to drink that wasn't too sweet. If water with various flavorings doesn't do it for you then perhaps you might enjoy Celestial Seasonings Red Zinger Tea Iced?

Termyn8or -> RE: Beer substitute ? (7/7/2010 1:20:51 AM)
It just happened, as much as I like my beer I just got up at about ten after three in the morning. Had to pee and found myself bouncing around. Well Mike was around earlier and brought a case of beer but that is no excuse. So with twenty beers in the fridge, I went looking for the water. I am now drinking wild cherry seltzer. But understand, I WANTED this, not one of the beers in my fridge. At three AM most of us would opt for the beer, but you know what ? I am simply getting sick of it. I mean it's OK, but I have had my fill. Things are going to change. Do I drink beer for the taste ? I think partly because it is not sweet, I hate sweet. But now this water is unsweetened, and it's "popularity" with me is growing fast. Looking at the "gredients" there are only two, and that suits me. Next is to stock up on it, TWO INGREDIENTS ! I'lll get it done and this is , well really I might just stop drinking beer. I am seriously getting to the point where I don't like it, sometimes. This works. It might get to the point that I stop drinking beer. Pizza is another thing I used to devour, but I don't like it anymore, despite the fact I can make an excellent pizza and you can ask a few of my town folks about that. But I am so sick of pizza I don't want any at all. Beer is catching up to pizza. I say let it happen. Then maybe this thread is for naught. Maybe I'll stop drinking bacause I don't want the buzz, or maybe I don't like beer anymore. Maybe I don't. I turn 50 next month, and really I don't even enjoy smoking a joint all that much. I think I am growing out of it. Why couldn't this have happened about twenty years ago and saved me a couple hundred thousand ? Dammit. Lemme tellya, one night, M&Ms(microdot and mescaline), $12. Nickel of weed, $15. Beer maybe twenty bucks. Every once in a while someone had some good PCP or coke, so there goes at least a hundred bucks, and you're so fucking high you don't even know when you get high ! Twenty years ago that's how it was. And that's every day. But now I want no hard drugs even for free. But now are pot and beer to disappear the same way, as if I am casting off childish ways almost ? If anything like that is close to the truth, why does it take so fucking long ? T

DarlingSavage -> RE: Beer substitute ? (7/7/2010 5:39:30 AM)
There is no substitute.

Owner59 -> RE: Beer substitute ? (7/7/2010 7:16:43 AM)
Liquor before beer, you're in the clear. Beer before liquor, never been sicker.

submissivemale22 -> RE: Beer substitute ? (7/7/2010 7:32:29 AM)
yeah. i drink no beer, not caffiene, and no beverages with sugar (beyond natural sugar in fruit juice). i recommend vodka and diet tonic (with lime juice).

sirsholly -> RE: Beer substitute ? (7/7/2010 10:20:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u .One with the overriding message(and in some cases the self fulfilling prophecy)of the one drink will lead you back to your nightmare. That is the nature of an addiction, Mike..it is a lifelong battle. There is a huge difference between a true addiction and mere alcohol abuse. Like many, i have abused alcohol. The next day i felt like a human wrinkle, sobered up and moved on. One with an addiction cannot move on. They do not control their alcohol intake...it controls them. They are powerless to stop. quote: A man standing up and declaring himself to be an alcoholic....who hasn't had a drink in 40 years....I'm sorry,get a life get out of the church basement and move on... That man standing in the church basement is not there for the free coffee. If he has 40 yrs of sobriety, it is obvious to me that AA is working for him, as it has worked for many. Some do not need to attend meetings for the rest of their lives. Some do. Those that have that need have my admiration for admitting their inability to control their addiction and admitting their need for help and support. quote: .of course that would violate all of the tenets of the cult...which teaches all of it's supplicants that without the group they are lost It is your opinion that AA is a cult, Mike...and of course that is your right, but look at the mindset of the average cult member. A cult does not attract those who are physically and emotionally healthy. It attracts those who are lost, fearful, insecure, searching, and in need of support. AA does not rope in healthy happy members of society and create a dependence on a 12 step program. Those who join are NOT healthy. And yes...perhaps AA does perpetuate an emotional dependence, but for someone who can achieve sobriety i think it is a fair trade.

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