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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 9:52:31 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
Nah... I do it because it's a fetish of mine (religious iconography).  It's yummy and sexually stimulating.
It's funny that LA posted that image earlier.  I know people like to think 'freaks' when they see those kinds of image and take the piss.  But then people do tend to ridicule that which makes them feel uncomfortable.  I find it a fascinating subject.  Ever seen the film 'Martyrs'?  I would highly recommend it.

What's your 'excuse'...



Too many years of Catholic school. 

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 9:54:53 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


I have read many condescending remarks about religion from you... want me to look them all up when i have the time? I am taking a break from finals, once I am finished in a few days i could find each and every remark you have ever made that I found snarky toward religious people



Yes.

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 10:07:14 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


I have read many condescending remarks about religion from you... want me to look them all up when i have the time? I am taking a break from finals, once I am finished in a few days i could find each and every remark you have ever made that I found snarky toward religious people



Yes.



I will by next weekend


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 12:19:26 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
Nah... I do it because it's a fetish of mine (religious iconography).  It's yummy and sexually stimulating.
It's funny that LA posted that image earlier.  I know people like to think 'freaks' when they see those kinds of image and take the piss.  But then people do tend to ridicule that which makes them feel uncomfortable.  I find it a fascinating subject.  Ever seen the film 'Martyrs'?  I would highly recommend it.

What's your 'excuse'...



Too many years of Catholic school. 



Well you know where I am if you want to talk about it...

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 12:31:41 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
it is just a fucking random and meaningless existence.

I'm horrified by the teaching of so many religious groups that we are worthless and that the only thing that gives our existence meaning is said groups deity. I feel sorry for anyone who has been so indoctrinated that they have to play pretend with their imaginary friend to give their life a sense of meaning.

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 12:36:25 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
it is just a fucking random and meaningless existence.

I'm horrified by the teaching of so many religious groups that we are worthless and that the only thing that gives our existence meaning is said groups deity. I feel sorry for anyone who has been so indoctrinated that they have to play pretend with their imaginary friend to give their life a sense of meaning.



Without a spiritual dimension to existence life would just be a meaningless chain of random events...

Oh, btw, I do not believe in a "diety" like a personified anthropomorphic being, so if that pity was aimed at me, it missed its mark

I feel sorry for people that are so threatened by others having religious beliefs that they have to ridicule them... it is a sign of insecurity


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 12:46:58 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
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Status: offline 		God....climate change...defence....

Defence usually right wing.....climate change usually left wing...God goes both ways....

But the same line of thought underpinning all........some bollocks about something happening somewhere that where you don't believe in it life ain't going to be all tits and beer......so fear dictates that it needs to be accounted for....a bit harsh with God as it can be a positive construct....though the point remains that people latch onto things they can't see.....just goes to show how utterly unreasonable we are at times....

I have no problem with anyone believing God providing it's kept personal. The point I'm making really is that there's no use in slating people who believe in God....while believing that someone somewhere wants to kill you though you have no evidence whatsoever beyond media hyperbole....and assuming you don't have scientific apparatus in your basement that can deduce climate change then you know very little about that too. Hypocritical to chastise people who believe in a God while believing in something totally intangible yourself.

Personally...I'm definitely not an atheist....possibly agnostic....but more accurate would be to say I really do not care.

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 12:50:45 PM   
pyroaquatic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


So is the obvious conclusion that there was no other form of consciousness around prior to the Big Bang? My little pittling Homo sapien brain does not pretend to understand how it all got here, you must forgive my inability to time travel and have it all figured out.

I will say what I always say on this matter.... the only intellectually valid answer about this subject is that of the agnostic. Anyone that pretends to have the one true answer is basing that on their personal beliefs. Yes, I have beliefs, and they are every bit as valid as anyone else's... even those who think some random chain of amino acids explains it all



You are trying to say a belief system is the same as a scientific theory.


Do you believe any scientific theory is true?
You can have all the proof you want but it does not mean squat.

Nothing is Absolute. Nothing is static.
Everything, including science, is subject to change. Yes I do see the irony of these last two comments but it is just a theory.

Belief and Theory. Ha.



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You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 12:52:57 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Without a spiritual dimension to existence life would just be a meaningless chain of random events...



Nonsense....life would be what you make of it. Career....friends...family....laughter...beer and all the rest of it.

You don't have to believe in something bigger than yourself to enjoy life and all it has to offer.

So....say you can't explain it....doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.....

If someone dropped a million quid in your lap...would you want chapter and verse as to how it came about....or would you say thanks very much...couldn't care less where it came from....I'm gonna fuckin' well enjoy it....before running off into the distance laughing your cock off like a wild man....

Why do human beings feel the need to understand everything? Ridiculous really.......but that's one of the illusions of human existence....we really thing we're much more important than we are....philosophers (far greater minds than those stalking the corridors of CM) have been trying to work this out since the year dot...and we ain't got very far in terms of understanding the essence of the universe.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 12:56:05 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


So is the obvious conclusion that there was no other form of consciousness around prior to the Big Bang? My little pittling Homo sapien brain does not pretend to understand how it all got here, you must forgive my inability to time travel and have it all figured out.

I will say what I always say on this matter.... the only intellectually valid answer about this subject is that of the agnostic. Anyone that pretends to have the one true answer is basing that on their personal beliefs. Yes, I have beliefs, and they are every bit as valid as anyone else's... even those who think some random chain of amino acids explains it all



You are trying to say a belief system is the same as a scientific theory.


Do you believe any scientific theory is true?
You can have all the proof you want but it does not mean squat.

Nothing is Absolute. Nothing is static.
Everything, including science, is subject to change. Yes I do see the irony of these last two comments but it is just a theory.

Belief and Theory. Ha.




The scientific method is a method to try to answer questions about the world.... but the thing is that the scientific method isn't perfect, those who use it make mistakes too.

There are many ways to understand the world, through the lens of science is but one way. Science is steeped in Western ideology. Those who push forward science as being the best way to understand the world are doing so from their own cultural perspective... science is a cultural artifact.

Of course those who think they can run around objectively explaining the universe and their place in it by the use of "science" do not want to think of it this way, why? Because it would challenge their entire belief structure, that which they base their lives on. Of course their culture is superior to how other people view the world! How silly everyone else is to challenge them!


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 2:59:48 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Without a spiritual dimension to existence life would just be a meaningless chain of random events...


Loves, family, friends and experiences aren't meaningless just because someone doesn't have spiritual dimensions.  Their lives aren't meaningless just because they don't have some spiritual experience.  Ridiculing people who have belief doesn't rock, but neither is condecending people who don't dig a spiritual path.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:07:16 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Without a spiritual dimension to existence life would just be a meaningless chain of random events...

Oh, btw, I do not believe in a "diety" like a personified anthropomorphic being, so if that pity was aimed at me, it missed its mark

I feel sorry for people that are so threatened by others having religious beliefs that they have to ridicule them... it is a sign of insecurity



Do you understand what you have just said here?

Without a religious/spiritual reason for life we have no reason for life.

Which is exactly why the reason needed to be invented.

People are terrified that this existence may be random and there really may be no purpose at all to our lives.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 5/14/2010 3:11:26 PM >

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:17:50 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
People are terrified that this existence may be random and there really may be no purpose at all to our lives.


.Nodnod.

I see the worst examples of both sides in these forums.  You have one person saying that life is meaningless with spiritual dimensions because they cannot under the concept of life just being cool on it's own and then, you have someone else on the opposite side talking about playing with a pretend imaginary friend because they have no concept of spirituality for others.

I just feel sad that people have to be so condemning on either side.  I don't want so happy clappy let's all get along balony, but I don't see why people have to be so intent on being so condecending to entire peoples when they are really only centring on a single person to have some kind of oneupmanship.

Blah, but it's late and I was rocking all night last night - maybe I should get some sleep...

the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:25:48 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic


Do you believe any scientific theory is true?
You can have all the proof you want but it does not mean squat.

Nothing is Absolute. Nothing is static.
Everything, including science, is subject to change. Yes I do see the irony of these last two comments but it is just a theory.

Belief and Theory. Ha.




Well I'm pretty sure if you come over here and I stand on a ladder and drop a rock on your head we can demonstrate the theory of gravity.

(in reply to pyroaquatic)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:29:36 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
People are terrified that this existence may be random and there really may be no purpose at all to our lives.


.Nodnod.

I see the worst examples of both sides in these forums.  You have one person saying that life is meaningless with spiritual dimensions because they cannot under the concept of life just being cool on it's own and then, you have someone else on the opposite side talking about playing with a pretend imaginary friend because they have no concept of spirituality for others.

I just feel sad that people have to be so condemning on either side.  I don't want so happy clappy let's all get along balony, but I don't see why people have to be so intent on being so condecending to entire peoples when they are really only centring on a single person to have some kind of oneupmanship.

Blah, but it's late and I was rocking all night last night - maybe I should get some sleep...

the.dark.


I don't think I'm being condescending to point out a possible reality and the existence of religion/spirituality as a way to hide from that possibility.

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:31:51 PM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Without a spiritual dimension to existence life would just be a meaningless chain of random events...

Oh, btw, I do not believe in a "diety" like a personified anthropomorphic being, so if that pity was aimed at me, it missed its mark

I feel sorry for people that are so threatened by others having religious beliefs that they have to ridicule them... it is a sign of insecurity

Do you understand what you have just said here?

Without a religious/spiritual reason for life we have no reason for life.

Which is exactly why the reason needed to be invented.

People are terrified that this existence may be random and there really may be no purpose at all to our lives.

And I see a difference between spirit and religion.  Julia never said anything a needing a religion to have a full and meaningful life.  She didn't even say being a "believer" was necessary.  She said without a spiritual dimension to existance would make life a meaningless chain of events. 

I had a happy and very meaningful life.  I learned through my experiences in my spirituality how to have an abundant life... a cup runneth over kind of life.  And I am personally feel most religions can suck that joy right out of a person.  But that's just my experience and my path.

I won't put words in Julia's mouth but what I interpret is much like a really great photograph the photographer might use light and shadow to bring a sense of depth to a flat medium.  Without at least the illusion of the third dimension, it is just a picture.  We add time as a dimension (which is at best an artificial measure) to something that adds even more perspective to matter, energy, etc.  So then why could not spirit add a dimension that adds even more to life? 

Whether a person's life feels full of meaning boils down to personal choice.  Happiness is a choice.  Real joy.... may require more dedication.

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:32:22 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I don't think I'm being condescending to point out a possible reality and the existence of religion/spirituality as a way to hide from that possibility.



Sorry for the misunderstanding rule, that wasn't aimed at you, I was just responding to your post with random thoughts of my own.  The nodnod was me agreeing with you.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:37:16 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
I won't put words in Julia's mouth but what I interpret is much like a really great photograph the photographer might use light and shadow to bring a sense of depth to a flat medium.  Without at least the illusion of the third dimension, it is just a picture.  We add time as a dimension (which is at best an artificial measure) to something that adds even more perspective to matter, energy, etc.  So then why could not spirit add a dimension that adds even more to life? 



I'd have to disagree there eyes.  It might just be a picture to you, but to someone else, it could be incredibly important.  Images taken years ago isn't always play with light and shadow.  If you are taking snaps of your family, people don't always mess with all that - they just want to get the picture to cherish.  You don't have to know all the ins and outs of photography to either create or to have a wonderful photograph.

I don't believe that people have to have religion of spirituality to have fulfilment or for life to mean something.  If that's the case, then atheists are correct all along - it's nothing more than a crutch.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 5/14/2010 3:39:08 PM >

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:46:53 PM   
realcoolhand


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Status: offline 		So THIS is why you don't discuss religion at the dinner table. Blech; can anyone pass the salt?

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RE: agnostic or atheist? - 5/14/2010 3:58:47 PM   
eyesopened


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From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		And I do understand what you are saying.  I've never been great with analogies.  Of course a bad snapshot of my family has more meaning to me than an award-winning photograph hanging in a gallery.

A person can have a full and fabulous life without a belief in a supernatural being or a religion.  These joyful people are all around.  I suspect they have a spiritual dimension... but perhaps they don't define their energy as such.  And again, I do not want to be putting words into anyone's mouth. 

But if we were nothing more than an artfully arranged collection of biology and chemistry how would we feel satisfaction, love, empathy?  Are these all just chemical reations?  If so, then could we not inject people with identical chemicals to get identical response?  To me, there is something more than biology and chemistry.  I call that something more... spirit. 

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Profile   Post #: 160
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