RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision?

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/2/2010 9:04:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
I have given the medical reasons i had my son circumcised.

I'm a bit skeptical of this considering you've previously mentioned that your son is 24 and all the medical evidence that's been brought up in this thread is considerably newer.

New?

According to some accounts, phimosis prevented Louis XVI of France from impregnating his wife, Marie Antoinette, for the first seven years of their marriage. She was 14 and he was 15 when they married in 1770. However, the presence and nature of his genital anomaly is not considered certain, and some scholars (Vincent Cronin and Simone Bertiere) assert that surgical repair would have been mentioned in the records of his medical treatments if it had occurred.[citation needed]

US President James Garfield was assassinated by Charles Guiteau in 1881. The autopsy report for Guiteau indicated that he had phimosis. At the time, this led to the simplistic speculation that Guiteau's murderous behavior was due to phimosis-induced insanity.[42]

Josef Fritzl had this condition when he was a child, according to a court psychologist. [43]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phimosis

Did not realize Louis the 14th was considered newer.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GotSteel)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/2/2010 9:19:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InControl754

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Phimosis affects about one in twenty uncircumcised men.. far more than 15%.

I don't know where you are getting your number of 1 in 20 (which, by the way for you math challenged - is only FIVE percent).

The National Institute of Health did a study in 1999 which showed this:
AbstractOBJECTIVE: To establish the incidence of pathological phimosis in boys. PATIENTS AND METHODS: A 2-year review of circumcisions was performed for phimosis among a known population of boys, with the histological findings of the circumcision specimens assessed. RESULTS: Sixty-two boys (all but one aged 5-14 years) had typical pathological (cicatrizing) phimosis and among the 51 circumcision specimens examined histologically, 43 (84%) showed appearances of balanitis xerotica obliterans. During the same period, 30 boys were circumcised for developmental unretractability of the foreskin ('physiological phimosis'). CONCLUSIONS: The incidence of pathological phimosis in boys was 0.4 cases/1000 boys per year, or 0. 6% of boys affected by their 15th birthday, a value lower than previous estimates and exceeded more than eight-fold by the proportion of English boys currently circumcised for 'phimosis'.
And here's the link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10444134

So where is your number coming from?

http://www.london-urology.co.uk/penile%20problems.htm

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to InControl754)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/2/2010 9:21:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

you are busted and too stupid to realize it. btw, you really should be watching what you post. plagerism, TOS violations, venomous attacks... you are gonna step on the wrong side soon.

It was an honest mistake, I had no intent of that looking like I wrote it. Whether you believe me I could care less.

You remind me of the fat ugly girl wearing all the wrong clothes in the school yard at recess getting in peoples faces telling them how they are going to get in trouble when the teacher finds out. Annoying, unwelcome, fat ugly.

You need to do a litmus test on your own venom.

Your post here is more telling than you realize. But its exactly what i would expect from you.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to heartcream)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/2/2010 9:47:05 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InControl754
RESULTS: Sixty-two boys (all but one aged 5-14 years) had typical pathological (cicatrizing) phimosis and among the 51 circumcision specimens examined histologically, 43 (84%) showed appearances of balanitis xerotica obliterans.

I suspect that most of these were caused by diseases that were transferred manually to the penis and / or by misguided efforts at hygiene. These kids and their parents ought to have been interrogated about their penis handling and disease environment. For example: what was the socio-economic status of their parents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: InControl754
During the same period, 30 boys were circumcised for developmental unretractability of the foreskin ('physiological phimosis').

I read on wikipedia that in some men it may take 17 years or longer for the foreskin to become naturally retractable. So circumcising years earlier simply is premature. Let them develop naturally. And if the condition is not outgrown, then they are defective males that ought not to reproduce themselves nor their deleterious allele.

(in reply to InControl754)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 3:20:35 AM

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17 years. That did not take 17 for me and my brothers. by puberty at latest - all was fine.

(in reply to Rule)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 3:53:09 AM

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From: Tamaris
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Notice the word some, that meaning what was written does not apply to all, so using the self as an example or means to trash what is written in a post does not work. Furthermore because a person has no problems, that is not to say others might also not, for we are all different, every and each one of us, physically and mentally.

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RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 7:47:03 AM

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Yet you used your own personal experience to trash.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 8:49:21 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I'm starting to wonder if some of the vocally pro-circumcision posters on here are motivated by a need to justify their having their child circumcised.

I suggested the same before.

It must be horrible to realize that one has been fooled into mutilating one's own child, having a fully functional organ amputated. I entirely understand that such people are in complete denial, refusing to accept the responsibility for the wrong they have done to their defenseless male offspring and to their population and its gene pool.

Yet only by acknowledging their sin and by repenting and determining that the perverted practice of circumcision must stop, can they redeem themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:13:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I'm starting to wonder if some of the vocally pro-circumcision posters on here are motivated by a need to justify their having their child circumcised.

I suggested the same before.

It must be horrible to realize that one has been fooled into mutilating one's own child, having a fully functional organ amputated. I entirely understand that such people are in complete denial, refusing to accept the responsibility for the wrong they have done to their defenseless male offspring and to their population and its gene pool.
And then there are those like me who have never had a male circumscribed who still think you are nuts.

Yet only by acknowledging their sin and by repenting and determining that the perverted practice of circumcision must stop, can they redeem themselves.
And who, pray tell would an atheist acknowledge their sin to? And who are they sinning against? You do know what an atheist is right? After all, you claimed you were one.

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(in reply to Rule)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:21:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
It must be horrible to realize that one has been fooled into mutilating one's own child, having a fully functional organ amputated. I entirely understand that such people are in complete denial, refusing to accept the responsibility for the wrong they have done to their defenseless male offspring and to their population and its gene pool.

Gene pool? Is your mastery of genetics rehabiliting lamarckian hereditary now?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Rule)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:28:47 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And then there are those like me who have never had a male circumcised who still think you are nuts.

Supergenius by definition are crazy. They are also nearly invariably right. I thank you for the compliment.

(I corrected the word in bold into what I suspect you intended.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And who, pray tell would an atheist acknowledge their sin to? And who are they sinning against?

It is often sufficient to simply acknowledge to have done wrong. It may be even better to acknowledge the wrong to the wronged person, in the case of circumcision the mutilated boy as well as the affected population.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And who are they sinning against?

Perhaps you can figure that out yourself? Come on, you can do it, Little Train That Could. Give it your best effort.

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:29:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
It must be horrible to realize that one has been fooled into mutilating one's own child, having a fully functional organ amputated. I entirely understand that such people are in complete denial, refusing to accept the responsibility for the wrong they have done to their defenseless male offspring and to their population and its gene pool.

Gene pool? Is your mastery of genetics rehabiliting lamarckian hereditary now?

You're talking to someone who thinks a flap of skin is a fully functional organ and you want to discuss genetics?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:31:19 AM

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quote:

Perhaps you can figure that out yourself? Come on, you can do it, Little Train That Could. Give it your best effort.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And then there are those like me who have never had a male circumcised who still think you are nuts.

Supergenius by definition are crazy. They are also nearly invariably right. I thank you for the compliment.

(I corrected the word in bold into what I suspect you intended.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And who, pray tell would an atheist acknowledge their sin to? And who are they sinning against?

It is often sufficient to simply acknowledge to have done wrong. It may be even better to acknowledge the wrong to the wronged person, in the case of circumcision the mutilated boy as well as the affected population.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
And who are they sinning against?

Perhaps you can figure that out yourself? Come on, you can do it, Little Train That Could. Give it your best effort.

You are the one claiming to be an atheist, so you tell me who are they sinning against?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Rule)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:38:25 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Gene pool? Is your mastery of genetics rehabiliting lamarckian hereditary now?

No. I have never advocated any Lamarckian evolution on these boards.

I have already explained the devious way in which circumcision affects the frequency of deleterious alleles in the gene pool, perhaps in this very thread, but apparently you either have not read those posts, or you did not pay attention to their contents. Ordinary people often only see the false truths that they want to see instead of the genuine truth that manifests before their eyes.

(in reply to Moonhead)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:39:55 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
You're talking to someone who thinks a flap of skin is a fully functional organ and you want to discuss genetics?

Oops, thishereboi is a lay person.

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:41:30 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
You are the one claiming to be an atheist, so you tell me who are they sinning against?

I am willing to hand you a tissue, but I expect you to blow your own nose.

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:45:24 AM

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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
You are the one claiming to be an atheist, so you tell me who are they sinning against?

I am willing to hand you a tissue, but I expect you to blow your own nose.

Can't come up with an answer? That's ok, I honestly didn't think you could.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to Rule)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:47:43 AM

Rule

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Tsk, tsk.

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:51:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
It must be horrible to realize that one has been fooled into mutilating one's own child, having a fully functional organ amputated. I entirely understand that such people are in complete denial, refusing to accept the responsibility for the wrong they have done to their defenseless male offspring and to their population and its gene pool.

Gene pool? Is your mastery of genetics rehabiliting lamarckian hereditary now?

You're talking to someone who thinks a flap of skin is a fully functional organ and you want to discuss genetics?

Good point.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to thishereboi)

RE: What is Lost Due to Circumcision? - 6/3/2010 9:53:48 AM

Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Gene pool? Is your mastery of genetics rehabiliting lamarckian hereditary now?

No. I have never advocated any Lamarckian evolution on these boards.

I have already explained the devious way in which circumcision affects the frequency of deleterious alleles in the gene pool, perhaps in this very thread, but apparently you either have not read those posts, or you did not pay attention to their contents. Ordinary people often only see the false truths that they want to see instead of the genuine truth that manifests before their eyes.

In this case I'm more wondering how in hell's name a surgical procedure can have any impact at all on somebody at a genetic level.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Rule)

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