RE: If you were a true slave

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Mercnbeth -> RE: If you were a true slave (4/14/2006 11:47:03 AM)
quote: First off I must confess I find Gor offensive in the extreme because it is based on really really idiotic FICTION, so take my rant with a double dose of salt. Crappy, Not a Gor defender or practitioner, only a striver for understanding and addressing inconsistency. Can you reconcile this? You list on your profile as an "expert" and "living for" Renaissance Faires. Is that a case of just only using one "really" before the other two words of your quoted statement? Pass the salt...

MLskajira -> RE: If you were a true slave (4/14/2006 12:13:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom I have yet to see a single relationship based on GOR that I would call healthy, I am sure there are places in Idaho that are full of them but here in California we are having a dire shortage of them. well Crap, it appears that You dont know crap. this girl has been kajira to a wonderful Master for a while now and it is a VERY healthy relationship. He loves and cherishes His pet and this girl honors and respects her Master. he is the yin to this girl's yang. she was not complete until she met Him. and to head You off at the pass, no, this girl has not based her life on a string of abusive relationships, she knows the difference, and although she cannot say she will not be abused, ever, she can say that it will only happen once and she will leave some of her own marks. You obviously know NOTHING about Gor, so read a book, ask a question.... with an opened mind to the answers and You too might just learn something and if You chose not to do that, then shut the fuck up.

BitaTruble -> RE: If you were a true slave (4/14/2006 1:12:21 PM)
quote: If you want to hear what others who beat people in real life think of Gor, go here...http://www.sexuality.org/l/bdsm/morgr_tw.html A specious link and you were rude beyond the pale. So you have not found what you have not sought. This does not suprise me. I admit I have never lived in Sacramento, but I did spend the first 38 years of my life living in San Jose which is a tad bit closer to SF than is Sac. I was a long time member of Janus, frequented HOD ::I never, ever fed the dog::, participated in demo's, lectured, wrote for Exchanges and have been an activist for BDSM for several years including starting groups which grew in size. I am working on starting another such group for the town in which I live. Such gives me no more nor less credibility than anyone else. It just means that I got out a bit but that's hardly a criteria for common sense or good manners. I don't recall ever meeting anyone by the name of Crappydom, but perhaps you came about after I left. The Gorean population in that area is alive and well but as you were unaware of their existance, and I'm quite sure they, in turn, would want nothing to do with you, it's probably best you keep the blinders on and just go about your merry way with your most appropriate screenname. Oh, and as an avid poker player, betting a box of stale donuts isn't much of a bet since you are not willing to lose anything of value should you be proven wrong. It would appear you don't believe enough in what you say to risk anything of importance. Since you list intellectual discourse as a 'hatred' on your profile, I won't engage in such with you. Far be it for me to try to push the limits of a Crappydom. Celeste

CrappyDom -> Sarcasm (4/14/2006 1:30:11 PM)
I see sarcasm is a lost art here, well I hope I can bring about its rebirth. Anyway, the comment about those who "beat" people is the same as calling someone else HERE a pervert, many take it as a compliment. It was my ways of saying people who actually do S&M in real life, live with their S&M partners etc, think of people who "do" GOR. Someone asked an intelligent question about my enjoyment of Renaissance Faires, I do enjoy them but for me, they are fun fantasy, entertainment, nothing more. I don't actually try and pretend the last four hundred years didn't happen. Besides, half of the people who attend those events are into S&M on some level or another and most of the rest are kink friendly so it is a fun place to play in public. As for healthy gor relationships, I don't count anything where you don't either live with or at least sleep together a few times a month as much of a relationship. Call me crazy but that is my opinion. For those I know who are into Gor they use its rules to prey on people who I often believe don't have the experience nor maturity to provide informed consent. As for my post of my vast and overwhelming experience (for those who don't get it, that statement reeks of sarcasm) I was simply demonstrating that I am talking about real world relationships, not internet or phone fantasies. As for being rude, if the emperor is offended because I noticed his ass is naked, well look to someone else for an apology.

BitaTruble -> RE: Sarcasm (4/14/2006 1:52:45 PM)
quote: It was my ways of saying people who actually do S&M in real life, live with their S&M partners etc, think of people who "do" GOR. Master and I just celebrated our 10th anniversary of his ownership of me and I don't think that at all and yes, that's r/t 24/7 living together ownership. So, you're wrong. "Some" people may disparage Gor, but not all people. quote: As for healthy gor relationships, I don't count anything where you don't either live with or at least sleep together a few times a month as much of a relationship. Call me crazy but that is my opinion. For those I know who are into Gor they use its rules to prey on people who I often believe don't have the experience nor maturity to provide informed consent. We've already established that your pool is very limited. quote: As for my post of my vast and overwhelming experience (for those who don't get it, that statement reeks of sarcasm) I was simply demonstrating that I am talking about real world relationships, not internet or phone fantasies. No, again, you are speaking from a very narrow and limited perspective based on the fact that you are completely unaware of what is around you. Your world is so small as to be laughable. quote: As for being rude, if the emperor is offended because I noticed his ass is naked, well look to someone else for an apology. Yes, there is an ass here, but it's not on the Emperor. You've succeed in rebirthing sarcasm. That must please you. I can't help but wonder if you are even in a long-term relationship. It wouldn't appear you have the temperment for such. Perhaps you should stop typing with one hand and get out into the real world. You might have better luck in your search. Let's face it, according to your profile you are actively seeking switch women and submissive women. If you are such an advocate of the real world, what are you looking on line for in the first place? Celeste

CrappyDom -> Gor (4/14/2006 2:12:46 PM)
In my experience those who are into gor often play with the most inexperienced subs, often pulled from online, and work hardest to keep them from reaching outside that small community. That smacks of abuse to me and always will. Since you will find almost none if any links to any gor group on any bay area open community group's website, for me that speaks volumes. YMMV

kajira4aMaster -> RE: intolerance of others (4/14/2006 8:35:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom In my experience those who are into gor often play with the most inexperienced subs, often pulled from online, and work hardest to keep them from reaching outside that small community. Ok.. since I started this thread.. I will address this.... I am not inexperienced in S&M nor am I inexperienced in the B&D part of it either... unless you call 15+yrs inexperienced.... not to say that thier aren't more experienced people out there. I agree with BitaTruble on the blinders part.. maybe if you took them off and opened your eyes and your mind to something that is different then you would find us... We are out there even at the supermarket right around the corner from you!!! quote: That smacks of abuse to me and always will. What smacks of abuse? <looks for abuse around the corner... hmmm must be playing hide an seek> quote: Since you will find almost none if any links to any gor group on any bay area open community group's website, for me that speaks volumes. So what.. maybe you should type in Gorean.. hehe quote: YMMV OK someone enlighten me on what this means... and I guess crappydom doesn't want to play with me.. hehe... he won't respond to what I posts.. hehe Can I ask.. what qualifications do you have to say you are an expert at giving a massage? Its a bummer you are shorter than I am [:)]

BitaTruble -> RE: intolerance of others (4/14/2006 10:10:48 PM)
quote: quote: YMMV OK someone enlighten me on what this means... YMMV = Your mileage may vary

CrappyDom -> RE: intolerance of others (4/14/2006 10:37:52 PM)
Kajira, I am tired of being nice, please learn to read unless gor forbits or some other bullshit. None of the terms I used were all inclusive, I didn't say ALL or EVERY, I left room for some exceptions. Again, I didn't say there were no gorian groups, I said I knew of no mainstream S&M groups that even LISTED a gor group. I then stated my opinion that it wasn't that they didn't know of them but that they, like I, thought people who did gor were at best idiots and better left unlisted. So next time before you get your panties all in a bunch, find someone with better reading skills to help you out. See THIS is what I sound like when I actually start getting irritated. Oh as for massage, I learned to do it online in a chatroom after reading a fiction book where they did it so I am an expert with 15 years of online experience...

kajira4aMaster -> RE: intolerance of others (4/15/2006 7:22:03 AM)
thank you BitaTruble.. I appriciate it!!

MLskajira -> RE: Gor (4/15/2006 7:36:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom In my experience those who are into gor often play with the most inexperienced subs, often pulled from online, and work hardest to keep them from reaching outside that small community. quote: this girl has been in this life for 33 years, she doesnt think anyone here, not even you could call her "inexperianced". quote: That smacks of abuse to me and always will. quote: the difference between what W/we do and abuse is the same as the difference between a professional boxer and getting mugged in a back alley. quote: Since you will find almost none if any links to any gor group on any bay area open community group's website, for me that speaks volumes. quote: apparently bitatrouble had it right and you have a VERY limited base to pull from. YMMV

MLskajira -> RE: intolerance of others (4/15/2006 7:43:31 AM)
bet you were a D student. try learning the truth about something before you start bashing it. ignorance breeds fear. fear breeds hate. hate causes death and distruction.

kajira4aMaster -> RE: intolerance of others (4/15/2006 7:47:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom Kajira, I am tired of being nice, please learn to read unless gor forbits or some other bullshit. None of the terms I used were all inclusive, I didn't say ALL or EVERY, I left room for some exceptions. Again, I didn't say there were no gorian groups, I said I knew of no mainstream S&M groups that even LISTED a gor group. I then stated my opinion that it wasn't that they didn't know of them but that they, like I, thought people who did gor were at best idiots and better left unlisted. So next time before you get your panties all in a bunch, find someone with better reading skills to help you out. See THIS is what I sound like when I actually start getting irritated. Oh as for massage, I learned to do it online in a chatroom after reading a fiction book where they did it so I am an expert with 15 years of online experience... ok so NO qualifications in massage.. bummer that really sucks, you might want to change that to intermediate instead of expert... It is too bad that you are getting upset because I am having so much fun... as for reading english.. I probably read more than you do on a daily basis. And please tell me that for fun you read Kinesiology and/or Anatomy and Physiology books. Then maybe we would be on the same level with something. I feel that I am looking down all the time. Would you like to know more of my daily reading? As for panties getting bunched.. well I don't have any so I don't know how they would get bunched.. As for Gorean groups.. does there have to be one listed just so you can feel good about yourself when you sandblast them? or are you just going to feed them stale doughnuts? To each thier own......

kajira4aMaster -> RE: intolerance of others (4/15/2006 7:54:03 AM)
To everyone who posted enlightening and supportive posts... They have helped greatly, I appriciate them, and am learning from each of them. To the other... it is to bad your eyes are closed to something different. You miss alot because of the blinders you have on.. The world is such a beautiful place if you really look at it. Maybe you should pick up the rock you just threw on that flower and actually LOOK at the flower beneath it.. it might be crushed and will not live much longer but it still has beauty.

MontaukDaisies -> RE: intolerance of others (4/16/2006 9:42:56 AM)
IMHO... Gor is BS. It's a series of writings.. fiction. F I C T I O N. (and PS.. so is the Bible!) 'Nuff said. (Now watch all the Religious Nuts come out of the woodwork..) (oh.. and "Happy Easter"!)[:@]

Nosathro -> RE: intolerance of others (4/16/2006 10:00:14 AM)
Tal, greetings, and Hello If this Gorean Master may add his views to this. I am Gorean and I am very comfortable with that. I have many friends in the BDSM Lifestyle and we all meet for sharing many things, laughs, friendship, and understanding each other. I have encounter those who have a negative view of Goreans and I just ignore them. I have also in my years involved in the BDSM Lifestyle some, far to many in my opinion, who claim being a Master, Goreans as well. Yes, this person who left his kajira without a single word is a coward, nor is he Gorean. For Gorean hold Honor and Respect above all else. This action I have heard far too often and I am angried by these so-called Masters, they think they buy a whip and hand cuffs and that is all it takes to be a Master. There is a Gorean saying, "Before You Master a slave, You must Master Yourself". For me that has taken alot years and experiences. To those who judge Goreans harshly, I ask do not paint all of us with the same brush, this person is not Gorean. I wish All of You well Nosathro

ownedgirlie -> RE: intolerance of others (4/16/2006 10:08:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MontaukDaisies IMHO... Gor is BS. It's a series of writings.. fiction. F I C T I O N. (and PS.. so is the Bible!) 'Nuff said. (Now watch all the Religious Nuts come out of the woodwork..) (oh.. and "Happy Easter"!)[:@] A true example of trying to incite an argument for the sake of.......??

MontaukDaisies -> RE: intolerance of others (4/16/2006 10:26:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: MontaukDaisies IMHO... Gor is BS. It's a series of writings.. fiction. F I C T I O N. (and PS.. so is the Bible!) 'Nuff said. (Now watch all the Religious Nuts come out of the woodwork..) (oh.. and "Happy Easter"!)[:@] A true example of trying to incite an argument for the sake of.......?? quote: A true example of trying to incite an argument for the sake of.......?? You're kidding me, right? I can't have an opinion about whatever topic without you saying I'm trying to incite an argument? Get over yourself. This is a forum for discussion/opinions/ideas/conversations. I have opinions (and you know what they are equated to).. you are invited to block my posts in the future. Have a great day! [8D]

CERCKL -> RE: I need to understand...... (4/16/2006 11:11:23 AM)
quote: I need another Masters perspective on things... Why would a Master just pack up all his stuff (he lived with me) and move out, while I was at work, and not leave a note or call my cell and leave a message? Does this seem right to you, that a Master would do this? This slave thanks you for your time, ~ crying kajira girl Don't know the story, can't comment, but do know this is a 'human' thing not a 'Master' thing... C

KnightofMists -> RE: If you were a true slave (4/16/2006 12:31:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom First off I must confess I find Gor offensive in the extreme because it is based on really really idiotic FICTION, so take my rant with a double dose of salt. Based on Fiction... mmmmm that is not actually completely accurate in a universal sense. The fiction writing actually as some basic principles within it. It has been my experience that they most credible individuals that call themself Gorian actually recognize the principles that are buried within the Fiction. These same individuals are able to take the Fantasy of the writing and seperate it from the principles that are contained within the story line. So I don't think it is accurate to label Gor as based on fiction... It's based on principles that are contained within the story. However, many individuals that call themself Gor have never even read the books or even understand what the principles are. They are shallow thinkers and like some individuals that read the bible... they translate things in a literal fashion instead of symbolic that much of it is intended. It is my experience that many individuals that call them self Gorian actually do it a disservice. But, every group has it's black sheep, It's been my experience that Gorian just seem to have more than it's share. As a side note... I met two individuals that called themself Gorian... a so-called Master that frankly couldn't Master my toilet and a kajira that was only beginning to learn an had along ways to go. Most of my exposure to Gorian individuals is observing/interacting in the Online Medium. and I wouldn't want to label a paticular group from only a online exposure and my little direct face to face interaction would hardly be adequate sample to judge an entire group by. quote: Relationships are just that, if you can't form real ones in vanilla life, S&M in whatever form isn't the magic pill to fix it. In fact, S&M relationships are harder, require more self reflection and self knowledge than any others. Any intimite relationship requires Self-reflections and Self-Knowledge... none have a monopoly or a higher requirement over others... However, individual needs and desires will dictate that one may need more in one type of relationship structure or style than another. TO THE OP... as I said in another thread.... There is no good way to break up but their is an honorable way.

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