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RE: About discussing negative things - 5/24/2010 4:05:43 PM

SocratesNot

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Lucienne, here are my responses.

quote:

These are gross generalizations. You know that. I think what you are responding to is resistance to a thorough critical analysis.

Yes, it is true. I would like to see more in depth critical analysis on these boards.

quote:

And if I may turn the question a bit, how about instead of you casting wildly about for things to disagree with, we focus on actual barriers that you face in pursuing a bdsm relationship.

I would be very comfortable with that. I would really like to discuss about my own barriers, and I think it would be far less insulting to others if I objected to my own desires and feelings that I haven't come to terms with, instead of objecting to things that I find unreasonable or bad in other people's relationships. What I also thinks is true, is that most of my criticism of other people's relationships originate from my criticism of myself and my own desires and attitudes, which is just projected on them.

quote:

To review what I've gathered about you... you're a 22 year old male living in Bosnia. You've had two girlfriends, but not much luck with girls. There isn't a thriving bdsm culture for you to join, so you can't just "go to a munch." You seem to be intelligent. How educated are you?

I finished high school of lyceum / gymnasium type. This is sort of high school without narrow specialization, focused on wide variety of subjects, including maths, sciences, arts, literature, modern languages (English and German) and Latin. This kind of school is very common in Europe, and this usually has the purpose to prepare students for university. I was a very good student in high school, had A grades in most subjects. Now I'm studying Law on University. I'm second year student. I am not so successful as I was in high school, because I tend to spend a little too much time on some other things apart from my faculty, but still, I am not a bad student either.

quote:

Are you working?

In sense of being officially employed, no. I'm not working. I do some things on the side. For example, I'm translating one textbook now from English to Serbian.

quote:

Living with your parents?

I am living with my mother. My parents are divorced. My father does not live with us. We are not even in contact with him. He left us when I was 5.

quote:

Are you Bosnian, or just living there?

There are no ethnic Bosnians. "Bosnian" is just a geographic term for all people born or living in Bosnia. In that sense, yes I'm a Bosnian.
People living in Bosnia are Serbs, Croats and Muslims (aka Bosniaks). I am an ethnic Serb.

quote:

What sort of cultural concerns do you have -- how conservative or liberal are your surroundings?

Former Yugoslavia was one of the most liberal communist countries. But still, a little more conservative than, say, Western Europe.
Most of people here are not very religious, since religion was repressed during the communist regime.
However, after the fall of communism, there was a huge wave of nationalism and religious renaissance in all Balkan countries. With this, religious intolerance also came into play.

quote:

You say you want an egalitarian relationship with some kink. Are the vanilla relationships around you egalitarian?

Vanilla relationships are mostly egalitarian, but this is not always the case. I live in patriarchal society in which men are officially heads of family and in charge.
However this is only officially. Men would never admit it, but in quite a lot of relationships here women have a lot of power. While men always have the last say, they often use this privilege just to say: "Yes, my darling, as you wish!" :-)

quote:

What other sorts of work have you done to define yourself as an adult, other than study bdsm?

Apart from my native Serbian language, I learned English and Italian language and I know them pretty well. I watched some of the greatest classic movies, which I downloaded and also I learned a lot about classical music. I am interested in philosophy and psychology and I have read some interesting books on that subjects.
When it comes to novels, I am not yet satisfied with how much I have read, but of those books that I have read so far, my favorite is "The Brothers Karamazov". My second favorite is, surprisingly, a very short children's book "The Little Prince", which I think has a lot of wisdom in it, and is more suitable for adults than for children.

quote:

What are your goals?

My goal is to have fun and enjoy my life. Apart from that, nothing outrageous. Like most people, I want to finish my studies, find a good job, have a family and children etc. In the meantime I want to learn about many things that I'm interested in and deepen my understanding of the world. I want to have a positive influence on other people and I want to learn from them. If they happen to also learn something from me, that would be great.

quote:

What are the things that you do that contribute to your identity (this is going to hurt... but reading doesn't count in this question)?

I think that I already somewhat answered that question. Developing my tastes, connecting with people that I like, exploring many different things and trying to find out what I really like. So far I haven't done any heroic deeds, but if I prepare myself, I might be able to do something like that, if such situation arise.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/24/2010 4:11:46 PM >

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RE: About discussing negative things - 5/24/2010 4:24:08 PM

Level

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I enjoyed hearing about you and your life, SocratesNot.

One small bit of advice: I happen to agree with you, in that there is nothing wrong with discussing "negative" things, but be sure and focus on the positive, too, in all aspects of your life. It will serve you well.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: About discussing negative things - 5/24/2010 4:54:23 PM

Lucienne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

When it comes to novels, I am not yet satisfied with how much I have read, but of those books that I have read so far, my favorite is "The Brothers Karamazov".

There's the light! I thought I sensed a Dostoevsky fan in your words about human suffering in the first post in this thread.

So, tell me about your romantic relations with women. You seem to have an attraction to more courtly behavior. Is this something you practice in real life? Are women responsive to you?

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RE: About discussing negative things - 5/24/2010 4:59:31 PM

kiwisub12

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Look - i hate to say this - because i think it may be a blow to your ego- but you sound just like my kids. Trying to figure out where you are in the grand scheme of things. Spending too much time on the puter because it is easier than actually getting out there and talking to people. And trying for a grander persona than warrented by your years.

Give yourself some time to grow up - bearing in mind that even when i was a sweet young thing i was of the opinion that university students matured way slower than those who had to actually live in the real world. University is great for theoretical knowledge but not so much for maturity.

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RE: About discussing negative things - 5/24/2010 5:42:41 PM

SocratesNot

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quote:

So, tell me about your romantic relations with women. You seem to have an attraction to more courtly behavior. Is this something you practice in real life? Are women responsive to you?

As I said, I'm not very successful with women. And also, I am not very much into courtly behavior despite the appearance on forum.
Quite contrary, I sometimes lack mannerisms, which is quite common in my country. We are not very much into formality and politeness.
My main problem is excessive shyness and lack of self confidence.
Asking a girl out is not a big deal for me, but when the date actually happens, I am often a bit awkward.
In real life, I usually avoid sensitive topics until I know someone very well so that I can discuss such things in a relaxed way.
I am not very good at teasing people and I rarely include sexual innuendos in my conversations. So on a date, it is hard for me to break certain barriers in communication.
Instead of initiating concrete talk about sexual matters or even subtly alluding to them, I tend to stick to usual topics of conversation such as movies, music, student life, places to go out, night life, hobbies, friends, etc. It is very hard for me to actually start talking with girl about sex or proposing some sexual things.
It's not that I never do it. I do. But this is kinda stressful to me, and I am usually not comfortable in doing it.

My two girlfriends were not very physically attractive, and also they weren't very interesting as persons. They were madly in love with my, but I wasn't so crazy about them.
Because of that I ended those relationships relatively early, because I was afraid that they might attach too strongly to me and expect too much. Since I wasn't able to reciprocate their feelings, I decided it is better to end the relationship before it is too late.

However, I had very serious crushes on some other girls, to the point of actually falling in love, but they weren't interested in me, and our relationship never happened.
All of those girls that I was so strongly in love with were very physically attractive, intelligent, and they were assertive and popular. They were also very interesting and fun.
But they either already had boyfriends or knew me for too long, so we were in " just friends" zone.

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RE: About discussing negative things - 5/24/2010 6:57:45 PM

Lucienne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
. And also, I am not very much into courtly behavior despite the appearance on forum.
Quite contrary, I sometimes lack mannerisms, which is quite common in my country. We are not very much into formality and politeness.

Well, note that I said "attraction to," not "affinity for." It's not about formality as much as being considerate of others. And every culture has their own version of politeness.

quote:

My main problem is excessive shyness and lack of self confidence.

And... it appears you're not likely to distinguish yourself via bravado. So, how about distinguishing yourself by being considerate? Not formal manners as much as paying attention to women and anticipating their needs. You like to explore and observe and learn things, why not put more energy into paying attention to the people around you and what they want? To be completely explicit -- the things you need to do to increase your chances of having a satisfying relationship are things that involve the broader you, not just a small compartment that wants companionship.

quote:

Asking a girl out is not a big deal for me, but when the date actually happens, I am often a bit awkward.
In real life, I usually avoid sensitive topics until I know someone very well so that I can discuss such things in a relaxed way.
I am not very good at teasing people and I rarely include sexual innuendos in my conversations. So on a date, it is hard for me to break certain barriers in communication.
Instead of initiating concrete talk about sexual matters or even subtly alluding to them, I tend to stick to usual topics of conversation such as movies, music, student life, places to go out, night life, hobbies, friends, etc. It is very hard for me to actually start talking with girl about sex or proposing some sexual things.
It's not that I never do it. I do. But this is kinda stressful to me, and I am usually not comfortable in doing it.

Initiating sexually explicit conversations with women you're just getting to know is not actually a skill that you should prioritize developing at the moment. Unless you're just looking for sex. And maybe you are. I'm not going to criticize you if that's what you want at this time. But that involves an entirely different set of skills. If what you want is a relationship, then you build a relationship. Once you know someone, it should be easier to have these conversations. This absolutely never works when I say it to people your age, but I can't stop saying it -- sex isn't going anywhere. You don't need to figure this all out right now. At 22, with your relative lack of relationship experience, you're better off focusing on building those foundational skills than you are sitting around waiting for the perfect kinky girl who's willing to overlook that you haven't mastered the vanilla basics.

quote:

My two girlfriends were not very physically attractive, and also they weren't very interesting as persons. They were madly in love with my, but I wasn't so crazy about them.
Because of that I ended those relationships relatively early, because I was afraid that they might attach too strongly to me and expect too much. Since I wasn't able to reciprocate their feelings, I decided it is better to end the relationship before it is too late.

However, I had very serious crushes on some other girls, to the point of actually falling in love, but they weren't interested in me, and our relationship never happened.
All of those girls that I was so strongly in love with were very physically attractive, intelligent, and they were assertive and popular. They were also very interesting and fun.

I'm not even going to touch this at the moment. Other than to make the obvious but painful point that if you're consistently falling in love with unavailable women, maybe you've got a wee bit of an issue with intimacy.

quote:

But they either already had boyfriends or knew me for too long, so we were in " just friends" zone.

Please, for the sake of all that is good in the world, do not waste much time studying the mindset of men who spend a lot of time analyzing "just friends" zone.

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RE: About discussing negative things - 5/26/2010 5:20:44 AM

cloudboy

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I think you have done a good job. Getting experience and not gunking up relationships with perfectionism and over analysis is great advice. Leaning how to better relate to others and establish connections (all kinds) is the smart and balanced way to go.

Its not easy being 22, but I agree with you --- its necessary at this time to give things a try, make mistakes, and know that nothing is the end of the world. Do the best you can and learn about yourself and others.

When I say this it sounds like a bunch of cliches grouped together, but when you say it -- it sounds like worldly advice from a wise sage.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/26/2010 5:23:49 AM >

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RE: About discussing negative things - 5/26/2010 8:09:48 PM

Silence8

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

THE FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS:

All is suffering (dukkha).
Suffering is caused by desire/attachment.
If one can eliminate desire/attachment, one can eliminate suffering.
The Noble Eight-fold Path can eliminate desire. Extremes of excessive self-indulgence (hedonism) and excessive self-mortification should be avoided.

edited for more info.

Quoting this shit only proves the OP's point. Eastern philosophy is becoming the new opium for the masses (notice the interesting 'short circuit'.)... platonism for the people!