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Posting strong opinions with respect for others - 5/24/2010 10:18:25 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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Split off from another thread to avoid hijacking the topic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
I am going to take your advice.
Would you try to help me to learn how to state my 100% honest and sicnere opinion or perspective without causing disruption on forum?
But at the same time I want to remain 100% true to myself, I mean I don't want to lie to people just because this is more convenient.


Certainly.  While this is not a perfect fix, if you take care to always preface statements with "I" language, like "I think" or "I feel" or "I personally believe," and make it clear that you understand that your opinions belong to you only, it will help.  Own your words.  Make them personal.  Make them yours, and nobody else's.  Because they are.

You can also make it clear that you understand that other people are not obligated to feel the same way as you feel, and I think that would be very well received.  It shows respect when you recognize that other adults are allowed to believe different things, even if they are not the same as what you believe.  Avoid using words like "you should" to other people, or making what might sound like a moral judgment of what is right or wrong for another person.  You can say, "I personally feel that X is wrong.  I know that it is wrong for me, and it makes me personally uncomfortable to hear about others doing X."  I would really try to avoid phrasing it like, "X is totally wrong, nobody should do X."  Unless you're talking about 100% nonconsensual or illegal acts, it's not a good idea to word it that way.  In short, try to avoid preaching, but instead make it all about sharing your personal feelings and experiences, without implying that they are better than anyone else's.

Recognize that you're not that experienced in what really goes on in the lifestyle.  From your posts, I think you have a lot of serious misconceptions that are very far from the day to day reality of the vast majority of people in long term, successful BDSM relationships.  People who are more experienced don't mind educating newbies, but you have to start by admitting that you really don't know, and that you don't have the right to pass judgment on other people.  You can say how you personally feel about something - and use the phrase "I personally feel" a lot, it will help - but it's not going to work well to tell other adults what they should or should not do in their relationships.   In fact, ban the words "you should" from your vocabulary pretty much entirely, and find other ways to share your opinions without disrespectfully demanding control over another adult's behavior.  That is, unfortunately, what the words "you should" basically express.  You are demanding control over their behavior when you use words like that, and people do consider that rude, arrogant, presumptuous and a lot like nonconsensually trying to dominate them.

I'd recommend you not try to give anyone any more advice for awhile, to give everyone a chance to cool off.  But when you do feel that you have a helpful perspective to offer, do it that way.  Offer *your* perspective and *your* personal experiences, but remain aware that it may not be 100% relevant to another human being and their very different beliefs and experiences.

Good luck and I hope this is at least somewhat helpful.

Edit: Ironically, what I'm doing here is telling another adult how to behave and offering advice.  This is a highly touchy social situation, because you are effectively stating that you have greater experience and authority than the person you are giving advice to. That's not always going to be well received if it wasn't asked for. In some ways, it's kind of like spanking somebody.  It has to be consensual.  If it is consensual, then all is well and you are both having a positive interaction.  If you do it nonconsensually, especially if you do it a lot to strangers, they're probably going to get pretty mad at you.  Right now I'm doing it consensually. 


< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 5/24/2010 10:35:16 PM >


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RE: Posting strong opinions with respect for others - 5/24/2010 10:48:13 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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Thanks LnT and sorry if I'm derailing your discussion, I don't know how to quote from one thread to another, however, but responding to your post to me SN, no one cares if you disagree. We disagree often, that's the thing, we are very diverse and typically respect that diversity and even learn from it. What we do care that you seem to do often is people that judge. So many people here have tried over and over to point it out to you and you just don't get it and your responses are indicative of someone that doesn't want to get it and only wants to judge and criticise. We don't need that.

Even the harshest of posters here (with one or two exceptions) will take the time to explain something to someone that is really here to learn. Repeated threads and responses about being abusive and wrong and bad and ill, threatening to beat people up, threatening to call the police on people for consentual relationships, etc., just do not at all paint you in any light of someone that is here to do anything other than judge.

Now, you seem to have been on this site for days straight with very little sleep....something is very off about your reactions as well that is not a language issue....if you have some issues (and I am not asking for you to disclose them) that effect you, I would suggest not posting when you are unsure if you can avoid the judgmental responses.

I'm not doing this to bitch at you, believe me, you would be back on block if I didn't see you finally attempting to share about yourself and ask about how YOU fit into this "lifestyle". THAT is what you should be doing, SHARE, ASK, discuss, don't judge and for pete's sakes, you live in Bosnia, stop telling people you are going to call the police, it's both incredibly ridiculous and really really NOT winning you any friends.

(and yes I am sure there are spelling, grammar errors, I'm not feeling well..which is why I'm not sleeping, my apologies)

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 5/24/2010 10:55:19 PM >


_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
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RE: Posting strong opinions with respect for others - 5/24/2010 10:51:31 PM   
SocratesNot


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Joined: 5/17/2010
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LNT, thanks for this advice, or should I say, spanking?
I'll try to put your words to good use, and to adhere to those guidelines that you provided me with.
Also, it was an interesting read and gave me some laughs!

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/24/2010 11:00:57 PM >

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RE: Posting strong opinions with respect for others - 5/24/2010 11:00:21 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3
Thanks LnT and sorry if I'm derailing your discussion, I don't know how to quote from one thread to another


No worries about me, it's SN who gets to say whether he consents to receive more advice from others.  Personally I'm trying to model appropriate "ask consent before giving advice" behavior here, so that SN gets a chance to experience how it feels when people are respectful of him and ask whether he would appreciate hearing their advice and their perspective before they give it. 

On the quote thing, just hit the quote button, then cut or copy what you want to reply to.  Open another window for a new thread and paste. Type there and hit OK.  Close the original window from the thread you don't want to post on.  Type the word quote enclosed in brackets [ ] to start a quote, and /quote enclosed in brackets to end it.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 5/24/2010 11:01:32 PM >


_____________________________

Your dominant Personal Trainer for fitness and body shaping in the lifestyle. Let my fetish be your motivation.

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RE: Posting strong opinions with respect for others - 5/24/2010 11:05:41 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
Yes, I am responding to his post to me rearding this, I just didn't want to derail that thread any further given the moderation there.



Thanks for the quote thing! Guess I should have thought of that.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Posting strong opinions with respect for others - 5/24/2010 11:06:51 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
Laurell3, I will try to follow LNT's and your advice.
I am also sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention. I explained it to you that the very same things I criticized people for, are also present in myself to some extent, and my mentioning of negative aspects was mainly for "scientific" purposes of evaluating the risks of BDSM before trying to engage in it.
I am really sorry if I was offensive during that process.

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
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RE: Posting strong opinions with respect for others - 5/24/2010 11:23:30 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
Apology accepted and thank you. You know I'm sure many of us struggled with it in the beginning too, (I did) I mean to the concepts and how they apply to us, that is. That is something most can relate to.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Posting strong opinions with respect for others - 5/25/2010 5:14:42 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
Re scientific. We aren't lab rats so using us without our consent to see how we react is rude. Nobody likes a rude person. Being unfamiliar with something and  confused about what people can get out of it is one thing, telling everyone else they shouldn't do it is rude. On the domestic service thread, you keep saying it's wrong and you keep making assumptions that are not necessarily true. That's an example of being closed minded and not wanting to understand why people do what they do.

Most importantly you seem to think that anyone who does something within BDSM is different than people who don't do BDSM. Try asking yourself if it would be wrong to go over to a friend's house, or the house of the elderly person down the street, and weed their garden or cut their lawn or shovel their snow. Because if you would feel warm and fuzzy from doing this for them, knowing that they would come home after a long day and would be thrilled to discover this, then the same thing applies to doing it in the context of wiitwd. The doer still gets something out of it, the warm fuzzies. And you don't get to judge what makes someone else feel good.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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