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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/31/2010 9:11:44 PM   
Silence8


Posts: 833
Joined: 11/2/2009
Status: offline 		I think someone submitting to anyone or anything (a partner or a State) should recognize that 'following orders' does not mean relinquishing responsibility for one's actions. It can't, assuming the submission is voluntary.

The tension arises, perhaps, in that desire for submission (or, more radically, desire in being (really) enslaved) can sometimes derive from precisely that, a desire to escape reality (and its intrinsic responsibilities).

So, d/s slavery can at times simultaneously instantiate two seemingly contradictory things -- escape into slavery (the joy of 'just being' (opposed to the anxiety of being free)) and escape from slavery (using d/s to deal with one's not feeling free in the world-at-large, e.g., crappy job, long hours, corporate oppression, societal and familial restraints, etc. etc.).


(in reply to MstrPBK)
Profile   Post #: 301
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/31/2010 9:25:39 PM   
Ozzfan1317


Posts: 62
Joined: 5/13/2008
Status: offline 		There is just something really hot about a smart, sexy submissive woman but I do agree the term can cause some unfair judgement.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 302
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/31/2010 9:34:00 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrPBK

If slavery is bullshit then why does it exist ... ?

The slaves I would like to find are not being found. NOT because they do not exist but rather they exist in another 'space' than where I am at now - in short we're not crossing paths and seeing each other; or not recognizing the really we each have and fully connecting. YES I am an optimist and still I am tremendously fristrated for a man who has had to searched for 19 years.

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA





The logic is because something exists is proof it is not bs? Whoa man, use your noggin.

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to MstrPBK)
Profile   Post #: 303
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/31/2010 10:36:50 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silence8

The tension arises, perhaps, in that desire for submission (or, more radically, desire in being (really) enslaved) can sometimes derive from precisely that, a desire to escape reality (and its intrinsic responsibilities).

So, d/s slavery can at times simultaneously instantiate two seemingly contradictory things -- escape into slavery (the joy of 'just being' (opposed to the anxiety of being free)) and escape from slavery (using d/s to deal with one's not feeling free in the world-at-large, e.g., crappy job, long hours, corporate oppression, societal and familial restraints, etc. etc.).



Perhaps, sometimes.  Or perhaps it's merely an expression of various facets of oneself.  I know I personally have no need to escape a thing in my life; rather, I embrace and enjoy all of it.  What's with all the "escape" talk?


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 304
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/31/2010 11:27:18 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

You know, SN, you know nothing about me, my path, or my journey. You are quick to spout the "company line", promote fearmongering and ignorance all while purporting to champion "freedom of information" -- but how much does that "information" mean if it is nothing to us but yet another clamoring of noise, bombarding our senses and bouncing off into nothingness without leaving any impact upon our lives?


Calla, the problem with this reasoning is that unless you process and evaluate information, you can't know if it is important or it is clamoring of noise.
If they don't allow you the chance to be in contact with the sources of information, you can never be sure is you missed something important.


_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 305
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/31/2010 11:31:16 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Yes. Two reasons. The most important is because a vow of obedience is a very serious thing to make, and before I give that commitment to someone I think of all the things it could possibly mean or require from me, and if I wasn't Ok with doing those things for that person I would not accept his control.


CaringandReal, if your "vow of obedience" to your Master is that important, would you kill an innocent person if he ordered you to?
Please don't try to evade the answer by saying that "he would never request something that unethical or foolish"
I know that the question is purely theoretical and hypothetical, and very unrealistic, but still this is a valid question.

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/31/2010 11:33:13 PM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 306
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 12:16:26 AM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Calla, the problem with this reasoning is that unless you process and evaluate information, you can't know if it is important or it is clamoring of noise.
If they don't allow you the chance to be in contact with the sources of information, you can never be sure is you missed something important.

Who is 'they'?
Apart from that, I do believe you missed her point. I will leave it to her to explain it to you, as she will undoubtedly do it more eloquently than I.




_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

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(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 307
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 1:01:07 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

Yes. Two reasons. The most important is because a vow of obedience is a very serious thing to make, and before I give that commitment to someone I think of all the things it could possibly mean or require from me, and if I wasn't Ok with doing those things for that person I would not accept his control.


CaringandReal, if your "vow of obedience" to your Master is that important, would you kill an innocent person if he ordered you to?
Please don't try to evade the answer by saying that "he would never request something that unethical or foolish"
I know that the question is purely theoretical and hypothetical, and very unrealistic, but still this is a valid question.


I sincerely hate to point out the "Nine meals away from Anarchy" concept here, but.... some people have it figured at being a little less or more. However, our polite civil society is prone to quick disinegration. This is a concept I learned quickly after a Hurrican ripped through where I was living. People were fighting and rioting over ice and food and charcoal. This blew my mind as a kid that people could turn so violent quickly. I was reminded of this fact, when watching the violence errupt on TV after the Rodney King ordeal. I heard stories of the Chicago riots, almost like it was some strange folklore handed down by adults or those older than me. Seriously, the violence that errupted after hurricane Katrina even. Now, in all these cases thank god that order was eventually restored. However, this should be a good indicator that if in the event things ever happens where the SHIT really hits the fan. Lord knows... one thing is for certain Family first, close friends second, and yeah... anything else and anybody else could go any which way.

But seriously Dude, how many people are gonna actually ask their submissive/slave to mindlessly kill another person? Sure it might happen, but it's extremely unlikely to happen. If they do do it, well... it's gonna be like you see on those TV murder true crime shows. There have been couples that have engaged in killing for their significant partner, either seperate or jointly.

Personally, you are just take things to extreme outer fucking limits, to places that really don't belong to the vast, and I mean vast majority of people into BDSM, D/s or Master/slave relationship go into.

Damn it, seems like you're asking a pretty extremely rhetorical question here. What are you expecting? for people to pipe up and say "Yeah I'd kill if my Master askes me to"?

Why don't you worry about finding something like this to spank and less about all the million and one cavets, loop holes or strawman or trying to kill mocking birds.





< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 6/1/2010 1:04:36 AM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 308
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 1:45:16 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		So anyhoo... have we established that Slaverly is really bullshit yet? That's it's an uncool fetish that's along the lines of pissing in the cooling fan of your PC? (Mac's excluded)

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 6/1/2010 1:47:30 AM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 309
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 1:48:59 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
CaringandReal, if your "vow of obedience" to your Master is that important, would you kill an innocent person if he ordered you to? Please don't try to evade the answer by saying that "he would never request something that unethical or foolish" I know that the question is purely theoretical and hypothetical, and very unrealistic, but still this is a valid question.
*sighs* Out of curiosity SocratesNot, if I were to say to you that the sun was going to rise tomorrow, would you think that I was stretching the truth? I mean, when you think about it, it is in fact possible that the sun does not rise tomorrow. It could nova sometime tonight. A passing black hole could suck the earth out of it's orbit. There are probably millions of different ways the sun could not rise tomorrow morning. But you know what? Most of us consider such a statement to be "true enough"

But since I also deal in edge cases, I'll give you a specific answer for Carol. She his a highly malleable personality who trusts me a great deal. But neither of those two things is infinite. At some point, she would be unwilling to bend any further or trust any more. That point, I'm certain, falls well before the point of axe murdering our neighbors. But now that we've handled the .0000000001% probability cases, can we just go on to discuss the remainder with the assumption that nobody here is an idiot?

And Silence... honestly... it is blatantly obvious that you cannot actually imagine a personality which is both submissive and healthy. But your lack of imagination does not define reality. Why can't Carol like to submit for all the same reasons you like to debate... namely... because it's her nature (and yours). Honestly, there doesn't need to be a reason for it any more than there needs to be a reason for someone to dominate or someone else to like politics (well, ok, that last one is a bit sketchy in my mind).

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 310
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 2:06:05 AM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I mean, when you think about it, it is in fact possible that the sun does not rise tomorrow. It could nova sometime tonight. A passing black hole could suck the earth out of it's orbit.
Mr Two Ff's,

I know you're trying to prove a point and all, but science is beautiful, and physics especially so. Please don't massacre my beautiful and defenceless subject in such a cruel, bastardised way.

The words 'a passing black hole' hurt me somewhere deep inside. Physics has done nothing to deserve this abuse.

<--Time lapse photo of me reading your post.

Ok?


_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.




(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 311
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 2:17:00 AM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

The words 'a passing black hole' hurt me somewhere deep inside. Physics has done nothing to deserve this abuse.



OMG!
I was totally thinking the same thing.

_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 312
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 2:26:15 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
The words 'a passing black hole' hurt me somewhere deep inside. Physics has done nothing to deserve this abuse.
So does this mean I'm officially a sadist now and can be one of the cool doms on the block? Hope springs eternal.

Now I'm gonna have to tell that line to my online slave tomorrow just so she can mock me too (never, ever collar a girl with an astrophysics degree *sighs*) Look, I'm just a simple dom of simple means.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)
Profile   Post #: 313
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 2:34:18 AM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Now I'm gonna have to tell that line to my online slave tomorrow just so she can mock me too (never, ever collar a girl with an astrophysics degree *sighs*) Look, I'm just a simple dom of simple means.


I don't think the term sadist would apply to you in this context, but from what you describe, I think the term massochist would.






_____________________________

I want you to know that it doesn't matter where we take this road
Someone's gotta go
and I want you to know you couldn't have loved me better
But I wanted to move on
So I'm already gone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJFn_RIdkg

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 314
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 2:50:33 AM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		@Socrates. I don't give a flying f.. what you think about my decision and no wonder people would rather rant up on down on yarn .. than deal with some of your posts.
Why didn't you read mine before prattling to me as tho I am an idiot. I said I did not want to go into details but I gave an example. Believe me, if you were going to have a catastrophic stroke if you didn't take a medication, i'd stuff it down your throat every night if you were my sub.. Call it totalitarian if you wish. You should be so lucky.

Wow. I think I am going to look for my knitting needles or pull out the crochet hook. A REALLY big one... you remember those old hooks they used in vaudville. hehehehe.


(in reply to SocratesNot)
Profile   Post #: 315
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 2:54:47 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		Does Anybody have a portable black hole to spare, you know the kind Bugs Bunny uses?

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to Silence8)
Profile   Post #: 316
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 3:32:19 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Does Anybody have a portable black hole to spare, you know the kind Bugs Bunny uses?


I do, but I'm using it to leave work early.....sorry.


_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

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(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 317
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 5:46:47 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Does Anybody have a portable black hole to spare, you know the kind Bugs Bunny uses?


I don't have one but I know this level 10 bladesinging elf mage that does. Want me to contact her for ya?

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 318
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 6:25:51 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Does Anybody have a portable black hole to spare, you know the kind Bugs Bunny uses?

I don't have one but I know this level 10 bladesinging elf mage that does. Want me to contact her for ya?

Geee.. she sounds like my stalker from back in high school, she was committed to a special facility.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Slavery is bullshit - 6/1/2010 8:09:32 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

****Socrates. I don't give a flying f.. what you think about my decision and no wonder people would rather rant up on down on yarn .. than deal with some of your posts.
Why didn't you read mine before prattling to me as tho I am an idiot. I said I did not want to go into details but I gave an example. Believe me, if you were going to have a catastrophic stroke if you didn't take a medication, i'd stuff it down your throat every night if you were my sub.. Call it totalitarian if you wish. You should be so lucky.

Wow. I think I am going to look for my knitting needles or pull out the crochet hook. A REALLY big one... you remember those old hooks they used in vaudville. hehehehe.


MsMillgrove, I don't think that you are an idiot, nor I want you to tell me any personal details in your explanation. I am just wondering why would the Internet
be more damaging to your sub then any other activity, if it is not overused, I mean, if you control how much time he spends online, why would the Internet affect him badly in any way, especially, since so much time has passed after you introduced this rule.
I am really curious, because, except in cases of Internet addiction, I have never heard anywhere that the Internet itself has any bad effects on people.
Misuse and overuse of the Internet, of course, can be bad, but the Internet itself, I really don't think so.
If the Internet is really that bad, then the TV is the same, and maybe cell-phones as well, and maybe newspapers, and many, many other things.
If you can explain this to me, without going into too personal things that you are uncomfortable talking about, I would be very glad.


_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 320
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