MarcEsadrian -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 3:51:00 PM)
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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael While we use the terms master and slave, I have real trouble with the myth of slavery on so many levels. Being a slave in no way meant you had anything but hatred and loathing for your master. In many cases this was true, but not so throughout all times and places, for we must remember that history is not one single time or place that will support straw man absolutism. Recorded history is further very limited in what it recounts and understands about the goings-on of all people and events, which are lost to the mists of time. On top of this, there are many things history teachers and books get wrong, even considering how little of a gamut they teach. Be that as it may, some vignettes manage to survive, and refute your claims. While there was without a doubt a great deal of brutality and social evil involved in ancient slavery, to say all slaves had nothing but hatred and loathing for their masters is simply incorrect, if not from a historic sense, then from an intuitive one most of us can sense about human nature. quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Being a slave in no way meant you were weak[;] gladiator's were slaves. Agreed. I'm intrigued about your inclusion of this fact to support your rant, however. It is said many times in M/s that it takes individuals of great strength to be slaves, and I know this to be true by putting theory to practice over the years. That strength needn't be in all things, however, and then one must of course consider the seeming paradox of the strength needed to yield, and so on. For the stability of my earlier lunch, however, ixnay on the Kushiel's Dart quotes, please. quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Being a slave sometimes meant you knew more than you master, were more adept, were "more" in so many ways. Not economically or socially, but otherwise, I agree—they fulfilled many functions in ancient society, due to their skill sets. I'm not certain what this has to do with comparing modern consensual slavery with "historic" slavery, other than to instead draw similarities between consensual and antiquitous bondage—and I'm sure we don't want to do anything of the sort in this thread! quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Being a slave often meant you wanted to be free but society overrode your will to be free. Agreed. Though if we are speaking historically, slavery was also consensually entered for reasons of famine, drought, plague or economic hardship, and this form of voluntary slavery included a wide gamut of employment. quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Being a slave in the bdsm sense is an entirely different kettle of fish. I agree. It is different, but to say the contrast between the two invalidates consensual slavery today isn't something I'd agree with in all cases, however. In many, I think I may be inclined to agree with you, but not in all. quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael There are many here who think doormats are healthy, I am not one of them. Someone who will roll over on their back like some abused and terrified puppy doesn't have much to surrender. Its sort of like an adult bragging about beating a kid in some game, really, you want to brag about that? I know what "doormat" means, of course (there is really more than one working sentiment on this term among us) but I must admit this caricature you paint escapes me somewhat. Terrified puppies? That would just be too ideal. Regardless, if some men or women enjoy excessively submissive females (preferably straight out of rehab) more power to them. I'm sure they couldn't care less about the moral measuring stick some wish to use to legitimize their hunting strategies. quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael You can own the body of a person pretty easy. This is something I find disagreement with when spoken matter-of-fact, as ownership of body inevitably defaults to legal definitions and permissions. Suckage. quote:
ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael Well, you can't own a mind. I wouldn't want a woman who wanted me to make all the decisions, it would bore the fuck out of me, clearly for others, that is what they want. Clearly, we all have different ideas of what we want, and we shouldn't get into the jurisdiction that our preferences are better or somehow morally correct. As for owning a mind, I wouldn't quite phrase it that way. Having a mind in your thrall feels more accurate, though I don't discount the emotional depth to which one can be "owned".
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