RE: Slavery is bullshit

RE: Slavery is bullshit (Full Version)

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Aynne88 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:08:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Yes....... and right now... I wish you had such a Master. [:D].

zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:12:19 PM)
quote: You are mistaking obedience or lack there of as defining concept of what a slave is and its not a defining concept -- though its usually beneficial for a slave to obey but its not what defines her as a slave. When a slave disobeys she doesn't stop being a slave, she simply is a disobedient slave THIS!!!! Oh dear God, angel, this is so perfect, really I wanted to get up and applaud when I read it! Bravo!

lally2 -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:13:45 PM)
this is not a dig in any direction whatsover, just im curious. how is a dominant qualified to comment on what a submissive or slave feels when owned or enslaved. since a dominant is dominant im assuming they have no actual submissive tendencies sufficient to appreciate the emotional and psychological bond a slave or sub feels - and i dont give a toss about titles, they simply serve the purpose of shorthand descriptives.

SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:24:30 PM)
Killing oneself for the Master is actually not that hard, especially if you are an atheist, or have some very romantic ideas about sacrifice. Also, being dead is easier than living a miserable life in which you are deprived of the things that you like the most. Now I will ask few more questions about real extremes of slavery, so that we see if consensual slavery is really a plausible concept or not. These are REALLY hard things to do: - stop using the Internet (already mentioned) - not being allowed to eat your favorite food or drink (think of chocolate, strawberries, french fries, milk shake, beer, wine, steak, cherries, watermelon, popcorn, orange juice, whatever is your favorite food or drink) - not being allowed to listen to your favorite type of music or your favorite band or composer - no more television - no more movies (or only those that Master orders you to watch) - reading only the books that Master approves of - pursuing only the hobbies that Master approves of (erase your favorite hobbies from your memory, they are gone) etc. If your Master treated you this way, would you still be with him, or would you run for the hills ?

UniqueRaven -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:30:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Killing oneself for the Master is actually not that hard, especially if you are an atheist, or have some very romantic ideas about sacrifice. Also, being dead is easier than living a miserable life in which you are deprived of the things that you like the most. Now I will ask few more questions about real extremes of slavery, so that we see if consensual slavery is really a plausible concept or not. These are REALLY hard things to do: - stop using the Internet (already mentioned) - not being allowed to eat your favorite food or drink (think of chocolate, strawberries, french fries, milk shake, beer, wine, steak, cherries, watermelon, popcorn, orange juice, whatever is your favorite food or drink) - not being allowed to listen to your favorite type of music or your favorite band or composer - no more television - no more movies (or only those that Master orders you to watch) - reading only the books that Master approves of - pursuing only the hobbies that Master approves of (erase your favorite hobbies from your memory, they are gone) etc. If your Master treated you this way, would you still be with him, or would you run for the hills ? That stuff is the easy stuff. Not a single problem with any of this. It's actually what happens in my dynamic.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:30:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Killing oneself for the Master is actually not that hard, especially if you are an atheist, or have some very romantic ideas about sacrifice. Also, being dead is easier than living a miserable life in which you are deprived of the things that you like the most. Now I will ask few more questions about real extremes of slavery, so that we see if consensual slavery is really a plausible concept or not. These are REALLY hard things to do: - stop using the Internet (already mentioned) - not being allowed to eat your favorite food or drink (think of chocolate, strawberries, french fries, milk shake, beer, wine, steak, cherries, watermelon, popcorn, orange juice, whatever is your favorite food or drink) - not being allowed to listen to your favorite type of music or your favorite band or composer - no more television - no more movies (or only those that Master orders you to watch) - reading only the books that Master approves of - pursuing only the hobbies that Master approves of (erase your favorite hobbies from your memory, they are gone) etc. If your Master treated you this way, would you still be with him, or would you run for the hills ? These are really hard things to do if you're maybe... twelve. There are adult humans who live EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIVES this way, and they are not even slaves!

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:33:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 this is not a dig in any direction whatsover, just im curious. how is a dominant qualified to comment on what a submissive or slave feels when owned or enslaved. since a dominant is dominant im assuming they have no actual submissive tendencies sufficient to appreciate the emotional and psychological bond a slave or sub feels - and i dont give a toss about titles, they simply serve the purpose of shorthand descriptives. Thank you, Lally, I fully agree. I have about 1% submissiveness. I understand SERVICE, I am the daughter of an ethnic household! But submission? That look they get when they say "yes, ma'am", or when I say, "what a treasure!"? NO clue what they are feeling, or indeed what motivates them down deep to make someone that they did not give birth to priority over their own wishes. All I can say to anyone that serves me is "Thank you very much!"

SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:33:47 PM)
quote: These are really hard things to do if you're maybe... twelve. There are adult humans who live EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIVES this way, and they are not even slaves! Explain this. How can they live this way if they have no Master who will tell them what to do and what not to do?

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:36:27 PM)
Are there no authority figures in your life AT ALL? No cultural mores that dictate what you will or will not do? Look into the lives of women in Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan.

SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:38:07 PM)
Would you still be with your Master if he not just controlled you, but deliberately deprived you of the things that you love the most? Not just controlling what you will eat, but deliberately depriving you of the foods that you love the most, for the very reason that you love this food. And not just temporarily as a form of punishment, but continually. On an ongoing basis. The same with all other things, music, movies, internet, etc... deliberately restricting the things that you love, just because you love them... Would you still be with him?

barelynangel -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:38:25 PM)
In the end with regard to slavery -- nothing on your list remotely is a concept that defines or solidifies a person being a slave or a Master. But you seem to be caught it in the superficial concepts. It utterly amazes me that you refuse to remotely see what creates it and why the superficial concept has no "must dos" in order to exist as a slave or in slavery. Let me say this much -- if a guy who has mastered me made those house rules for me to follow -- i have no clue if i would stay or go because it would depend on the relationship AS A WHOLE. For example, if the guy hadn't mastered me and suddenly started making all these RULES for me to follow because that is what he considered being a Master. it wouldn't matter what rules he made -- he isn't fulfilling my needs and i would leave because i could. However, if he had mastered me and he determined that the environment i was kept within and atmosphere meant those things would be eliminated from my life and i was content in his mastery -- then that's what it would be. Its not about the rules its about whether he would be capable of mastering the slave to EXISTING IN HIS LIFE AS HE DETERMINES. If he can't do that then he doesn't have a slave and it wouldn't matter what rules he made, what things he took away or gave, it wouldn't be a concept of M/s. Again, take away the superficial ideas you keep focusing on in the need to somehow what exactly prove slavery isn't real???, and start understanding the concept and you will find yourself understanding a little bit more of something you are ignorant about. angel

UniqueRaven -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:39:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Would you still be with your Master if he not just controlled you, but deliberately deprived you of the things that you love the most? Not just controlling what you will eat, but deliberately depriving you of the foods that you love the most, for the very reason that you love this food. And not just temporarily as a form of punishment, but continually. On an ongoing basis. The same with all other things, music, movies, internet, etc... deliberately restricting the things that you love, just because you love them... Would you still be with him? Yes. Why is this difficult to understand? My being a slave isn't about being able to dictate how i exist. It's not about me. Honestly, my Master is waaaaaay more important to me than a TV show or chocolate. i could care less about physical things in life.

UniqueRaven -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:41:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel In the end with regard to slavery -- nothing on your list remotely is a concept that defines or solidifies a person being a slave or a Master. But you seem to be caught it in the superficial concepts. It utterly amazes me that you refuse to remotely see what creates it and why the superficial concept has no "must dos" in order to exist as a slave or in slavery. Let me say this much -- if a guy who has mastered me made those house rules for me to follow -- i have no clue if i would stay or go because it would depend on the relationship AS A WHOLE. For example, if the guy hadn't mastered me and suddenly started making all these RULES for me to follow because that is what he considered being a Master. it wouldn't matter what rules he made -- he isn't fulfilling my needs and i would leave because i could. However, if he had mastered me and he determined that the environment i was kept within and atmosphere meant those things would be eliminated from my life and i was content in his mastery -- then that's what it would be. Again, take away the superficial ideas you keep focusing on in the need to somehow what exactly prove slavery isn't real???, and start understanding the concept and you will find yourself understanding a little bit more of something you are ignorant about. angel This.

SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:42:53 PM)
quote: Are there no authority figures in your life AT ALL? No cultural mores that dictate what you will or will not do? Look into the lives of women in Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan. I choose when will I go online, how long will I stay online, and what websites I visit. I choose which books I read (except when I have to read something in college) - I am sometimes forced to read things that I don't want, but no one forbid me reading things that I want. I choose which music I listen to (and I have a pretty good taste) etc... Most of the time I choose what will I do. They can force me to do what I don't want (in school, college, job, etc), but they can't forbid me from doing anything, except if this is illegal. Only the state ( and police) can forbid me to do something.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:43:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SocratesNot Killing oneself for the Master is actually not that hard, especially if you are an atheist, or have some very romantic ideas about sacrifice. Also, being dead is easier than living a miserable life in which you are deprived of the things that you like the most. Now I will ask few more questions about real extremes of slavery, so that we see if consensual slavery is really a plausible concept or not. SN, what you are not getting is the dichotomy that is D/s or M/s. Lets take something simple like bondage. Many people, upon the first time being tied up find an intense feeling of freedom inside that bondage. There are a host of reasons but the most common is that by being bound they do not have to feel responsible for either pleasing their partner or for whatever their partner does to them. So by restricting them you free them. All things being equal, M/s or D/s operates the same way. The boundaries, control, structure, or decision making, being taken over in some way by the one in charge provides a sort of freedom for the other person. You can't see past the "bondage" to the person's reaction to the control in their relationship. Don't get me wrong, plenty of people have no business submitting or dominating someone but assuming both parties are healthy, I have seen some stuff that squicked me out deeply that I knew was "okay" for the couple in their own weird way.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:47:39 PM)
I like that stick in your avatar, Michael! One of your own pieces?

SimplyMichael -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:51:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus I like that stick in your avatar, Michael! One of your own pieces? Yes, its one of my pieces. One of the only ones I have never personally used. Its too extreme for me but I saw a class that Boymeat put on about golden shower play where he used the one I made him lightly on a woman's back till blood was dripping from a multitude of places then he pissed on her back while she screamed a bit. Quite the eye opener.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:54:17 PM)
Really lovely! And tempting! /end hijack, back to your regularly scheduled... cluster.

SocratesNot -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 5:57:48 PM)
SimplyMichael, I understand the concept of finding freedom inside the bondage. You are free of responsibility, you are just being, go with the flow, surrender, etc. But still, being deprived of SOME things, is more important then this concept of freedom in bondage. Some things are really that important that you simply can't accept to be deprived of them. That's why I am asking the ultimate and most important question as my final challenge to the concept of slavery: If your Master wanted this, would you accept to never again in your life be allowed to see the second most important person in your life (after Master) whoever he/she is: - for example: your mother, your father, your best and dearest friend, you dearest son or daughter (giving them to be adopted, for example), your sister, your brother, etc. not just any of them, but exactly the one you love the most, and the one that is most dear and important to you If the answer is "Yes", I would like you to explain me why.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Slavery is bullshit (5/28/2010 6:00:30 PM)
Okay, someone take on the differences between dominance and abuse, okay? I'm outta here!!

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