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2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best int... - 6/9/2010 11:41:00 PM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		There are two types of treatment of slaves and both of these types are in slave's best interest:

Type A:

Treating her in a way she ENJOYS the most. Encouraging feelings of belonging and commitment to the Master. Pushing her often in the delightful subspace. Encouraging intimacy and connection. Encouraging total submission. Discouraging individuality of both Master and slave. Encouraging merger and putting emphasis on Us, and not on Me and You.
Emphasis is on emotional development, catharsis, oneness and spiritual connection between Master and slave.

Type B:

Treating her in a way that is most beneficial to her personal and intellectual development. Encouraging her to choose and evaluate goals on her own and to pursue them. Encouraging her to form her own opinions and to discuss and debate. Encouraging her to stand up for herself in the outside world. Encouraging her to develop new skills and knowledge. Encouraging physical and mental fitness and exercise. Encouraging her to find new areas of interest on her own and to pursue them. Encouraging development in career, etc. The emphasis is on increasing slave's skills and development of her intellectual and all other potentials. Slave is prepared to be as independent as possible even if the Master isn't around. However, all of this is still done with strict authority of the Master. His authority isn't endangered even if the slave CAN be totally independent if the Master allows it.


In my opinion both types of approaches have good and bad sides and should be combined. In many cases the slave would enjoy Type A treatment much more than Type B treatment, because Type B treatment, even if it is beneficial, can be intellectually and emotionally exhausting and stressful to the slave. Type A treatment, on the other hand, even if it provides the slave with feelings of security, belonging, stresslessness and delightful submission, can cause her to become increasingly dependent on the Master and to lose some of her own coping skills and mental capacities.

So, IMO, the best would be careful combination of the two approaches. However, if I had to decide between Type A and Type B treatment, I would give slight advantage to the Type B treatment.

So as a Master, I would treat my slave around 40% in Type A way, and 60% in type B way.

Other opinions?

Masters, which type of approach you prefer?
Slaves, in which way you prefer to be treated, something like Type A, or Type B?

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/9/2010 11:50:03 PM >

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Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 1:52:30 AM   
delicatelydirty


Posts: 126
Joined: 2/7/2010
Status: offline 		please explain why B is stressfull, because to me it sounds like what I do everyday off my own back... because I enjoy bettering myself...
Most of those things you describe strike me as basic life skills...

And as for part A those things are an important part of any healthy relationship, I don't really think either of them are particularly special as far as "how" a slave should be treated...

Bottom line a slave is a human being.. basic rules of common sense and respect apply anything else is negotiated between the couple

(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 1:55:19 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
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I only see a merge of type A and B. I think what your trying to say is encouraging a slave/sub to be dependant or encouraging a slave/sub to be independent.

I take it that when you say 'discouraging individuality' your talking 'micro management'? Micro management can be a very successful way of removing individuality and induce dependency on a carer. I believe (and I may be wrong) that micro management is not only hard work but can have big consequences if done to someone who comes from an abused background. A child that has had an incredibly controlling parent, often grows up with an inbuilt need to be controlled. They often follow traits of finding friends and lovers that will micro manage them because micro management is a safe haven for them.
I had a long conversation with a female sub who was micro managed to the extent that she became agoraphobic and could no longer drive her car even with a passenger sat next to her. Her relationship was loving and outwardly appeared very healthy but he was like a strict farther that discouraged any sort of independent thinking. She told me that this was the safest place she had ever been and yet the most destructive and I can totally see why.

For the life of me, I can't find anything negative about (B) You use the word 'encourage' again and again. Funnily enough, I recently picked up a book on good parenting and you have just briefed what the book said!


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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 2:06:05 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		And there also is a type C. Treating her in a way she DOESN'T enjoy, may even hate - but that she needs for some reason or other. It could be cathartic. It could be that she is a masochist. I'd still consider this separate from Type A - sometimes there is nothing enjoyable about it, other than having the masochistic itch scratched. I think the example allthatjaz gave falls into that category.

It could be to improve herself (in that case, type B and C are the same). Or it could be that it is necessary for some other reason (for instance, telling her that she MUST go to the dentist).

In my mind, the types don't really matter as much as the outcome. The slave must be better off in some way, shape or form. And that applies to all three types.


(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 2:25:51 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		You know I don't give a lot of thought to what is either pleasing to Carol or good for her. I think in terms of us. In that context, there is no simple math formula of "40% fun, 60% improvement". Rather, there is a constantly changing set of life conditions which require us to work. When too much working has happened, then fun must happen. It's a balancing act trying to get as much fun in as you can and still get all the important work parts going. How is this any different than just plain old "life"... exactly as delicatelydirty said.

The basics of the problem do not change simply because Carol is my slave. All that changes is who's making the decisions.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 4:28:06 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Or D, doing what is best for the relationship even if it's a decision that neither of you enjoy nor is beneficial to either one of you at the moment. Which is what we do. The health of the relationship comes first.

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 5:37:02 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

There are two types of treatment of slaves and both of these types are in slave's best interest:


No, there is not. As many different dominants are out there.. that's how many different ways their are to treat slaves. You can come up with only two. Others are not so limited.

quote:



Type A:

Treating her in a way she ENJOYS the most.


How do you know this would be in her best interest? It is very possible treating her in a way she most enjoys is the worst possible thing for her.

quote:

Type B:

Treating her in a way that is most beneficial to her personal and intellectual development.


This is better but not if it comes at the expense of being detrimental to the personal and intellectual development of the dominant. An example: Paying for her college education by working two jobs and not having a college education of your own.

A few more *ways* to treat a slave, some of which may be beneficial and some which may not be:

Type C:

Treating her in a way that is most beneficial to the dominant (which, from my experience is what *most* dominants do.)

Type D:

Treating her in a way that causes her the most discomfort.

Type E:

Treating her in a way that brings in the highest sources of income.

Type F:

Treating her in a way which is most beneficial to the relationship as a whole.

Type G:

Treating her in a way that demands her service be invisible

Type H:

Treating her in a way that brings enjoyment to your friends and fellow doms.

Type I:

Treating her in a way that amuses the dominant.

Type J:

Treating her in a way that leaves her useless for anyone else.

Type K:

... etc.





quote:

Slaves, in which way you prefer to be treated, something like Type A, or Type B?


I prefer that he treats me consistently so I remain balanced and if XYZ was okay yesterday, XYZ is okay today and if XYZ is NOT okay tomorrow to let me know so I don't fuck up.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 6:19:13 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

No, there is not. As many different dominants are out there.. that's how many different ways their are to treat slaves. You can come up with only two. Others are not so limited.


Yes, I am limited, and that's why I would be a terrible dominant. I lack the evil streak, and I feel that it is quite important trait for dominants in order to be successful.
If I owned someone, I would feel that this is extreme responsibility to treat her in a way that is most beneficial and enjoyable to her. If she enjoyed pain, I would give her pain. If she wanted to feel "bad pain" sometimes - the type that she doesn't enjoy - I would give it to her. But I would never give her bad pain in quantity that is greater than she can endure. I would never try to intentionally cause discomfort and suffering to her. I would give her just enough bad pain to experience catharsis, but not even a little more than that. I am simply not psychological sadist.  I could engage in sadomasochistic activity as long as it serves a purpose such as achievement of subspace or catharsis, or even satisfying her masochistic urges - but I would not give pain and suffering in any amount that is greater than what is absolutely necessary.

So, for me personally,

quote:

Type D:

Treating her in a way that causes her the most discomfort.


is unimaginable - I would never treat anyone in such way.

Also,

quote:

Type C:

Treating her in a way that is most beneficial to the dominant (which, from my experience is what *most* dominants do.)


Almost as unimaginable as type D. This would mean that I am focused only on myself = quite selfish, isn't it?

When it comes to

quote:

Type F:

Treating her in a way which is most beneficial to the relationship as a whole.


I could do it, but I think that relationship is too abstract category, and usually this translates to type C - doing what is most beneficial to dominant.

quote:

Type I:

Treating her in a way that amuses the dominant.


Of course, but not always, and not to detriment of her wellbeing.


quote:


Type H:

Treating her in a way that brings enjoyment to your friends and fellow doms.


Ridiculous, IMO. Who the fuck are my friends? When it comes to MY relationship I don't give a damn about what they think.

quote:

Type J:

Treating her in a way that leaves her useless for anyone else.


Again, big NO! I would never try to render anyone useless to other people.

BTW - I just mentioned two types of treatment which are in slave's best interest. I would never treat her in any of harmful ways.



_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

(in reply to BitaTruble)
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:09:28 AM   
whipmaker7


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/30/2010
Status: offline 		...because I couldn't find where this fits in your Hallmark descriptions.:
i want to encourage her to learn how to fuck right, suck my dick, teabag my nutsack, lick my ass and serve as a living breathing urinal. and if she mouths off, she gets the belt.

I call that slave type OMG


(in reply to SocratesNot)
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:12:18 AM   
whipmaker7


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

You know I don't give a lot of thought to what is either pleasing to Carol or good for her. I think in terms of us.


If your thinking of 'us' your thinking about what's pleasing to her and good for her, right? ...or am I missing something?


(in reply to leadership527)
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:14:16 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		Probably.

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:18:36 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

So as a Master, I would treat my slave around 40% in Type A way, and 60% in type B way.



i'm just wondering, in other threads you talk about being a submissive male to a Mistress. Are you serious about BDSM at all?

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:18:45 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The point Bita was trying to make... or at least the point i think she is trying to make and she will certainly correct me if im wrong... is that a Dominant has many ways to treat a slave. Just because some of those ways are abhorent to you doesnt mean they dont happen or that they shouldnt happen.

It all depends on the Dominant and slave in question, what makes them tick seperately, what makes the relationship work for them.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:23:28 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Having read many of your posts on your relationship with Carol, what i see is a man and a woman who obviously put each other before themselves, the relationship first, so to speak. What SN isnt getting is that the best relationships are a team effort, a work in progress. Its what works for you both... not either of you singularly. An unhappy dominant leads to an unhappy relatiohsip, same with the slave. But a slave isnt always happiest having her every wish granted.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:24:59 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UniqueRaven


quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

So as a Master, I would treat my slave around 40% in Type A way, and 60% in type B way.



i'm just wondering, in other threads you talk about being a submissive male to a Mistress. Are you serious about BDSM at all?


His profile lists him as a switch.

Are switches less serious about BDSM?

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:25:02 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

i'm just wondering, in other threads you talk about being a submissive male to a Mistress. Are you serious about BDSM at all?


I'm a switch. It depends on person I end up with. I think that I have affinities for both domination and submission.
With someone more submissive than me - I'd be a dominant.
With someone more dominant than me - I'd be a submissive.
With someone similar to me in her level of dominance - I could switch roles constantly.
With someone who is both more dominant than me AND I find her wiser, more intelligent and more knowledgeable and highly compatible with me in her ethical values - I could even be a slave in TPE.


< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 6/10/2010 7:27:02 AM >

_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:31:43 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		Ah, ok. And no, i don't see switches as "less serious" - i'm just wondering how much real life application all these discussions are going to have for you.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:38:31 AM   
SocratesNot


Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
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quote:

i'm just wondering how much real life application all these discussions are going to have for you.


I hope a lot. First I'd like to find a curious and inexperienced switchy girl with whom I could slowly, easily and safely explore the dynamic and other aspects of BDSM, without any hurrying. Or maybe I'd like to find a domme that is not too strict, because I think that in BDSM it is more logical to start as submissive and to experience receiving all of kinds of pain and domination, so that, if I decide to become a dominant one day, I have better knowledge and understanding of the things she experiences while I dominate her.


_____________________________

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas. - Aristotle
Plato is my friend, but truth is a better friend. - Aristotle

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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 7:45:52 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
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Status: offline 		SocratesNot, when I read the scrolling title, I knew it had to be one of your posts. You are a very focused individual, who seems to need to organize BDSM into an outlined concept that makes sense. I get that. For you, that may very likely be the type of relationship model you thrive in.

The thing about BDSM, is it isn't always ordered, or clean. Sometimes it makes absolutely no sense at all from the outside, even when it is bliss for the ones involved. Hell, sometimes it doesn't make any sense at all to the people who practice it.

Sometimes, BDSM is messy. For some it is mad chaos. It is unbridled passion and focused fury. For some, it is a concept so vast that it defies logic to try and neatly organize it into Power Point bulleted paragraphs.

I genuinely think that this is the point that seems to continually elude you, as you logically and systematically try to clean up and organize the concept of M/s and D/'s.


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RE: 2 types of treatment of slaves - both in their best... - 6/10/2010 8:00:26 AM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

quote:

i'm just wondering how much real life application all these discussions are going to have for you.


I hope a lot. First I'd like to find a curious and inexperienced switchy girl with whom I could slowly, easily and safely explore the dynamic and other aspects of BDSM, without any hurrying. Or maybe I'd like to find a domme that is not too strict, because I think that in BDSM it is more logical to start as submissive and to experience receiving all of kinds of pain and domination, so that, if I decide to become a dominant one day, I have better knowledge and understanding of the things she experiences while I dominate her.



i understand. Similar to the point WinsomeDefiance is making, sometimes you just need to get out and do things - and experience them - people are human beings, with variability...it simply is impossible to completely categorize them.

One thing i've learned over this life of mine is that people don't always do what you think they should, nor do they always do the right thing. So at some point you have to just begin to create your own bucket of life experience - and draw your own conclusions from that.

Knowledge is great, but without experiences you will never truly understand these concepts.

_____________________________

"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I'm happy. I can't figure it out. What am I doing right?" ~Snoopy (Charles Schultz)

My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to SocratesNot)
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