RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a femdom?

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/27/2010 7:44:31 PM

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Without knowing his motivations it seems a bit premature to be declaring this guy bent on topping from the bottom. I feel that way about deciding he is creepy, again without knowing the motivations.

That always makes me look at the others involved and their motivations.

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/27/2010 8:17:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

I don't think it is a male vs female thing. I have seen Dommes come down on both sides of this. There also seem to be several takes on it. For some a sub buying any toy beforehand is presumptuous topping from the bottom, for some it is the fact that the harness is a personal item. I haven't seen any male Doms say that they would be opposed to discovering a sub had purchased toys prior to meeting them. I know I would not. I don't feel any obligation to use any toys that a sub owns, but the fact she does own them is a convenience to me as I actually have very few toys myself. Mind you I am not really a fan of dildoes or vibrators, so chances are those will go unused, but that doesn't mean I have any problem with her having them. If she did have CBT gear I'd be amused, and probably ask if she switches if I didn't already know.

I agree I have seen males do this as well. And again, as someone who isn't into strap on play, now having learned all the variables regarding size, material comfort, etc. it wouldn't be a wise purchase. But to someone who is new, they don't know that any more than I did prior to reading this thread. What got me about it was the instant dismissal of a someone who was new who made a newbie mistake.

As for the insertable toys, as DesFIP has mentioned a number of times, it is very much a safety issue. Any dominant, male or female who would insist on using their own insertable that had been used on someone else is inconsiderate. If one doesn't like the toys that the sub comes with (sound like the accessories a barbie doll might come with, lol), can certainly either purchase new or instruct the sub to do so. But no one should ever force someone to accept something be inserted into them that was used on another. THAT is not just creepy, but dangerous.

(in reply to Nineveh)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/27/2010 9:06:26 PM

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Strap on!
Strap off!
Strap on!
Strap off!
The Strapper!

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/27/2010 9:10:26 PM

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Akasha, in the interest of better understanding your view, could you perhaps clarify whether a completely inexperienced and uninvolved sub owning a toy, like a whip, that is of a different nature – but equally difficult to effectively use on themselves – would give you the same sense of creepiness? Or does the creepiness factor stem more from your perception of strap-on harnesses as being highly personal to the wearer, somewhat akin to lingerie?

If it's simply a matter of owning something that they've never had an occasion to use but are interested in, I'm not really sure I'd see that as creepy. At least no more so than someone who spends time fantasizing about the action. It's probably not something I would do, but I think I can sort of see the appeal in having something physical just to look at and imagine using one day. I could also see such a purchase as perhaps being used to reinforce commitment to pursuing the search for a partner. Peon's analogy to the girlfriend with the wedding dress seems apt. If fantasy becomes so entrenched that it impinges on someone's ability to relate in a normal manner or compromise any on their desires, that gets creepy… but does having a few impractical toys really cross that line?

If the creepiness is more because of the item's personal nature, I think LafayetteLady has a point. In my view, it's entirely possible, maybe even probable, that the guy in question simply didn't see strap-ons in quite the same way that you do. My guess is that, with no experience, he probably saw them more as fairly fungible tools. From his perspective, any personal nature was probably actually far more closely tied to him, being on the intimate receiving end, than to the seemingly less deeply involved wearer. The idea that the design, style, and fit can be quite important to the woman's enjoyment is something which I think could be honestly missed in overly eager excitement; I'd wager most places he acquired the fetish from probably didn't bother to mention those factors as concerns – but the women using them were still portrayed as having a good time. So, I think I would be careful in ascribing an intentional callousness toward the opinions of his hypothetical future female partner based solely on the misguided purchase. Operating with Hanlon's razor, obliviousness seems more likely to me. Does that make any sense?

Of course, I can still see the presentation being creepy; trying to give it as a "gift" would show an amazing lack of… many things. But I think the problem would be more with how something intimate is brought up than with the mere fact he bought the thing while not in a relationship.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/27/2010 10:02:06 PM

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Subs owning their own toys isn't weird to me. Subs even buying dildos or insertables and using them 100% alone, without a partner, isn't uncommon. Subs buying and owning 'chastity devices' they use 100% on their own without even an online partner I find a little "odd" but I can understand perhaps wanting to fantasize while wearing it. A strap on harness is meant to be worn by a woman and serves no functional purpose for a male sub, that's why I find it creepy. Especially in a situation where the sub bought it before ever even having a conversation on any level with ANY femdom.

Akasha

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/27/2010 10:08:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs owning their own toys isn't weird to me. Subs even buying dildos or insertables and using them 100% alone, without a partner, isn't uncommon. Subs buying and owning 'chastity devices' they use 100% on their own without even an online partner I find a little "odd" but I can understand perhaps wanting to fantasize while wearing it. A strap on harness is meant to be worn by a woman and serves no functional purpose for a male sub, that's why I find it creepy. Especially in a situation where the sub bought it before ever even having a conversation on any level with ANY femdom.

Akasha

I didn't see you answer the question.

If a sub bought a bullwhip. Something he obviously can't use himself. Is that weird? is that creepy?

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/27/2010 10:20:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs owning their own toys isn't weird to me. Subs even buying dildos or insertables and using them 100% alone, without a partner, isn't uncommon. Subs buying and owning 'chastity devices' they use 100% on their own without even an online partner I find a little "odd" but I can understand perhaps wanting to fantasize while wearing it. A strap on harness is meant to be worn by a woman and serves no functional purpose for a male sub, that's why I find it creepy. Especially in a situation where the sub bought it before ever even having a conversation on any level with ANY femdom.

Akasha

I didn't see you answer the question.

If a sub bought a bullwhip. Something he obviously can't use himself. Is that weird? is that creepy?

A bullwhip is not an item to be worn by the other person.

Would a vanilla guy buying sexy lingerie for a future girlfriend (when he's single with no prospects) be creepy?

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/27/2010 10:26:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs owning their own toys isn't weird to me. Subs even buying dildos or insertables and using them 100% alone, without a partner, isn't uncommon. Subs buying and owning 'chastity devices' they use 100% on their own without even an online partner I find a little "odd" but I can understand perhaps wanting to fantasize while wearing it. A strap on harness is meant to be worn by a woman and serves no functional purpose for a male sub, that's why I find it creepy. Especially in a situation where the sub bought it before ever even having a conversation on any level with ANY femdom.

Akasha

I didn't see you answer the question.

If a sub bought a bullwhip. Something he obviously can't use himself. Is that weird? is that creepy?

A bullwhip is not an item to be worn by the other person.

Would a vanilla guy buying sexy lingerie for a future girlfriend (when he's single with no prospects) be creepy?

Yeah, I got that part. And no actually it wouldn't IMO. It might if he told her he had bought them before he met her, but when he bought them it'd be to look at, or to fondle and enjoy the thought of a woman in them. A little pathetic, but not creepy.

The really important difference between panties and a strap on though is that a strap on has a plastic penis attached that goes inside dude's ass. He had not met or interacted with any femdoms at the time he bought it, as you have been very clear on (apparently this makes it creepier to you, to me it is a clear demonstration of his ignorance) For me, and for several other posters who were unfamiliar with strap on play, as he clearly was, a strap on is intimate for the person being penetrated. I am not denying that it is also an intimate piece of apparel for the woman doing the penetrating, but that had not occured to me (or several others) until it was explained in this thread, it's certainly reasonable that it hadn't occured to this guy either. That's not creepy, or even pathetic like the underwear guy. It's ignorance combined with foresight and preparedness. If I were in your place I would be happy he had thought to get his own toys in advance, and then explain to him why that particular toy was not something it was appropriate to have bought in advance, as it is extremely likely he simply did not realize.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 1:30:34 AM

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Thanks to Nineveh for catching what I was trying to tease out with my questions and to you, Akasha, for the answers.

If you wouldn't see having a bullwhip as being so creepy, I really think it may just be a bit of a disconnect in how you see a strap-on and the way I suspect many guys would see it. To you, it's something a woman wears, like lingerie. It's personal; you want to select it (or at least have it selected with you specifically in mind) and to be comfortable with it. To the newly intrigued guy, it's a BDSM toy to be used on him, like a whip. Even though he can't use it, having it presumably gives him some enhancing, tangible connection to his fantasy and probably feels, to him, like a first step to making that fantasy real. The idea that a woman might see it as being significantly different than a dildo probably doesn't cross his mind because, to him, that's really what it is.

He has a fetish that he fantasizes about and a lack of experience. That might limit compatibility in some cases, but reading more into it than that seems a bit harsh. If it's clear he's just looking for some female form, preferably breathing, to stick inside the thing and fulfill his fantasy, then sure, I'd agree that's creepy. However, simply having purchased a strap-on, while probably misguided, wouldn't convince me he's a creep, especially if he's not at all pushy about it and can see your perspective when it's pointed out.

And, for the record, I happen to feel buying lingerie before a relationship would be creepy. I just think it would be pretty normal for a guy to not make the connection that a strap-on might be similarly personal to a woman.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 1:30:57 AM

ranja

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs owning their own toys isn't weird to me. Subs even buying dildos or insertables and using them 100% alone, without a partner, isn't uncommon. Subs buying and owning 'chastity devices' they use 100% on their own without even an online partner I find a little "odd" but I can understand perhaps wanting to fantasize while wearing it. A strap on harness is meant to be worn by a woman and serves no functional purpose for a male sub, that's why I find it creepy. Especially in a situation where the sub bought it before ever even having a conversation on any level with ANY femdom.

Akasha

you obviously dismissed my post as totally irrelevant...
well, i'll repeat: strap on harnesses no matter how personally female you think they are... men can wear them too.

There once was a guy who had this thing for shoes... he had a pair of high heels he very much liked, way too small for himself.... i thought it was wonderfully weird....
but then... i am sub and do not feel like i must be the one dictating what anybody else is allowed to buy before they meet me.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 9:13:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs owning their own toys isn't weird to me. Subs even buying dildos or insertables and using them 100% alone, without a partner, isn't uncommon. Subs buying and owning 'chastity devices' they use 100% on their own without even an online partner I find a little "odd" but I can understand perhaps wanting to fantasize while wearing it. A strap on harness is meant to be worn by a woman and serves no functional purpose for a male sub, that's why I find it creepy. Especially in a situation where the sub bought it before ever even having a conversation on any level with ANY femdom.

Akasha

you obviously dismissed my post as totally irrelevant...
well, i'll repeat: strap on harnesses no matter how personally female you think they are... men can wear them too.

There once was a guy who had this thing for shoes... he had a pair of high heels he very much liked, way too small for himself.... i thought it was wonderfully weird....
but then... i am sub and do not feel like i must be the one dictating what anybody else is allowed to buy before they meet me.

In this case, he bought it for a woman, not for himself to wear. It was designed for women.

Akasha

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(in reply to ranja)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 10:41:36 AM

submissivemale22

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Subs owning their own toys isn't weird to me. Subs even buying dildos or insertables and using them 100% alone, without a partner, isn't uncommon. Subs buying and owning 'chastity devices' they use 100% on their own without even an online partner I find a little "odd" but I can understand perhaps wanting to fantasize while wearing it. A strap on harness is meant to be worn by a woman and serves no functional purpose for a male sub, that's why I find it creepy. Especially in a situation where the sub bought it before ever even having a conversation on any level with ANY femdom.

Akasha

you obviously dismissed my post as totally irrelevant...
well, i'll repeat: strap on harnesses no matter how personally female you think they are... men can wear them too.

There once was a guy who had this thing for shoes... he had a pair of high heels he very much liked, way too small for himself.... i thought it was wonderfully weird....
but then... i am sub and do not feel like i must be the one dictating what anybody else is allowed to buy before they meet me.

In this case, he bought it for a woman, not for himself to wear. It was designed for women.

Akasha

initially i found the act more pathetic than creepy... but the more i think about this, the more ashamed i am i didn't see how wildly creepy this was at the outset.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 10:46:51 AM

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A strap on is something you use to FUCK SOMEONE.

Unless you are seriously into Robert Mapplethorpe (guilty!) you really don't do that with a bullwhip. Also, why shouldn't a bottom have whip throwing skills?

Unless he is bouncing around on the dildo that has the suction cup, I don't want to hear about it. Even THEN, I don't want to hear about it!

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 10:47:06 AM

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I commented on this on the other thread started by LL. If nothing else, this thread has made Me realize that there are a lot of folks out there who haven't done a lot of research about purchasing a harness. It might be a good opportunity for some to take a little tour of some online shopping venues to see what is out there and the differences in styles, prices, materials, sizes, and so on. There actually are male harnesses and female harnesses, so while you could alter one for a male, if you bought one designed for a female, there is a much better potential fit out there rather than it having to be altered.

With the suggestion coming up that the submissive male described in the original that he might be buying the harness to wear himself, it's My opinion that you're grasping for straws. While it may be the situation if he bought a chin strap model, if he's buying something that fits around the hips, he's going to buy something in his own size. Hopefully one that is built best for him. If it really is for him to wear, I highly doubt it's going to remain in the package for a year. He's going to have taken the thing out of the box and tried it on. That leads us back to something no longer in a package and most people aren't going to use an intimate item that they can't verify doesn't have someone else's body fluid on it.

There are literally more products on the market for anal penetration than most people can keep track of. This is one of those areas where it makes perfect sense that the harness and the dildo can be purchased separately. Doc Johnson's is a very popular brand and it eliminates the whole issue. Personally, I find that shopping together is more fun and increases the intimacy of the purchase.

By the way, if anybody out there can introduce Me to somebody out there who not only bought their wedding dress before they had a boyfriend and has that hanging in the closet along with the haven't met yet but the future groom's tux, I'd really like to meet them. You just don't see that happen every day.

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 11:33:35 AM

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This really falls under the rubric of compatibility. If the fact that someone bought something with their money for the two of you to use together bugs you that much, don't pursue intimacy with that person... or tell them how you feel about it and see if their response is acceptable to you...

Seriously, if a dominant made such a big deal about my investing in toys of any sort... well I would feel like it was not a good relationship for me possibly...

You have the right to gauge someone's suitability on any level you might like, and possibly this seems a bit like you are the life support system for someone else's fetish, but I think it is important to put most sorts of behavior into complete context before judging them...

Just me, etc

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 11:52:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This really falls under the rubric of compatibility. If the fact that someone bought something with their money for the two of you to use together bugs you that much, don't pursue intimacy with that person... or tell them how you feel about it and see if their response is acceptable to you...

Underline mine.

He didn't buy it "for the two of us." He bought it before he met me, ever talked to me, ever talked to *any* femdom. Big difference.

Akasha

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 12:15:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This really falls under the rubric of compatibility. If the fact that someone bought something with their money for the two of you to use together bugs you that much, don't pursue intimacy with that person... or tell them how you feel about it and see if their response is acceptable to you...

Underline mine.

He didn't buy it "for the two of us." He bought it before he met me, ever talked to me, ever talked to *any* femdom. Big difference.

Akasha

Exactly. And while I do not want to dismiss anyone's opinon here, I have to say that unless you are a female dominant, this isn't something that you can really speak to. Imagine if you were a submissive, and you were immediately asked to deep throat a banana to show your skills? It's just an expectation of sexual gratification with NO acknowlegement that you are a human being.

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 12:30:42 PM

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There is, of course, no reason a bottom couldn't or shouldn't have whip throwing skills. However, assuming they are only interested in being on the receiving end, it probably doesn't do anything for them and isn't why they bought the thing. It was just sort of a random example I quickly came up with to see if I could better understand what the distinction was that made a strap-on purchase seem so creepy.

If I understand correctly (and feel free to correct me on this if I misunderstood), Akasha's objection isn't actually to the fact that the guy had a toy he couldn't use on himself, but to the personal nature of that toy to any woman who might use it. That's what made it creepy and, if the guy saw it the same way, I would agree. The point I was trying to make is that I really doubt the guy saw it as being such a personal thing. While I don't have any particular fetish for strap-ons and have never been interested in purchasing one, I'm pretty sure I would have missed the connection to it being something as personal as lingerie when I was newer. And I like to think I'm normally reasonably empathetic. I mean, lingerie has clearly different styles and sizes; it's obviously personal. Before I commented, I actually quickly looked at an online shopping site, much as I'm sure he did. The strap-ons tended to be marketed as one size fits all, perhaps with a choice between purple and black. It's not exactly obvious that one would be seen much differently than another.

Of course, a strap-on is obviously intended for intimate use and just randomly brining it up with the assumption a woman would want to use it would still strike me as very creepy. However, if the guy seemed otherwise normal and interesting and things had already progressed to a point where the discussion was about stuff like dildos – something Akasha said she would have been ok with – I think it's a bit harsh to conclude the guy is a creep simply because he got carried away and bought a strap-on before he knew any women. I see lots of potential for creepiness in the way it's presented, but I'm not seeing it as being something inherent in the purchase itself.

It's quite possible I'm missing something, but to me being a creep is about an inability or unwillingness to relate to others. I think I would probably see a strap-on purchase, at least in isolation, as speaking more to ignorance than an underlying inability to relate, somewhat mitigating the creepiness factor. Does that make any sense? I genuinely am curious.

(Edited for typo.)

< Message edited by shallowdeep -- 6/28/2010 1:10:58 PM >

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 12:37:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shallowdeep

[snippage by Hib]

It's quite possible I'm missing something, but to me being a creep is about an inability or unwillingness to relate to others. I think I would probably see a strap-on purchase, at least in isolation, as speaking more to ignorance than an underlying inability to relate, somewhat mitigating the creepiness factor. Does that make any sense? I genuinely am curious.

You are absolutely right. Again, I say that you have to be a femdom to really appreciate the sorts of folks that approach us.

The men that you see posting on the Mistress board--Otters, Peon, SnowRanger, LittleSarbonn, et al--are just NOT representative of the men who want our attention. This makes me sad, but there you go. Yes, creepiness is an all-around trait. Believe me, the guys that are showing us their strap ons often have that quality in spades. We are not a bunch of kick-em-to-the-curb bitches, ready to toss aside a good person over a trifle. We are also not willing to waste our time with one-trick ponies who are fixated on their sexual gratification to the exclusion of all else. Here, we are talking about the strap on guy, but it's the same story with all the fetishists.

I just don't like being objectified.

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RE: Subs that buy a strap on harness - before he met a ... - 6/28/2010 12:44:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

This really falls under the rubric of compatibility. If the fact that someone bought something with their money for the two of you to use together bugs you that much, don't pursue intimacy with that person... or tell them how you feel about it and see if their response is acceptable to you...

Underline mine.

He didn't buy it "for the two of us." He bought it before he met me, ever talked to me, ever talked to *any* femdom. Big difference.

Akasha

Exactly. And while I do not want to dismiss anyone's opinon here, I have to say that unless you are a female dominant, this isn't something that you can really speak to. Imagine if you were a submissive, and you were immediately asked to deep throat a banana to show your skills? It's just an expectation of sexual gratification with NO acknowlegement that you are a human being.

If he asked her to put it on right off that's pushy. That's a different problem than the fact that he bought it and would apply equally, IMO to a bullwhip. If I met a sub and she told me she had this bullwhip and she needed me to use it on her right now I'd have a problem with it. Just as much as I would with her insisting I use a dildo or any insertable.

I don't think for a moment that he bought it to use on himself, or that he bought it to wear himself. I think it is quite obvious he bought it with the hope that someday some woman would use it on him.

The fact that it is something he gets fucked with though makes it, again, that much more appropriate that he bought it. It's going inside him. He doesn't want something going inside him that he hasn't picked out personally. Can you really blame him? Would you want something going inside you that you hadn't picked out? I know I really really wouldn't. I really think his error here was in not thinking about how intimate the harness itself is and I really do think this seems like a pretty excuseable error since the big plastic penis that goes in his ass was obviously overshadowing the harness in his mind.

I think a bullwhip is a really good metaphor because you really can't use it on yourself. Also, for a deep sadist or deep masochist it is a very intense and intimate experience. Bullwhips hurt a lot, they can do real damage if not used right. They are the sort of thing that I think a masochist has every right to be picky about since the feeling of ones made from different materials and tipped in different ways are radically different. I am not going to be offended that a sub has her own bullwhip, or her own dildos. If she had bought a strap on for me to use on her (as has been pointed out, guys can use them too, also, I'[m assuming that she bought it prior to ever having met a male Dom, just like the guy the OP complains about) I would personally patiently explain that the harness itself is rather intimate and I would prefer to choose it. Something I hadn't known before this thread, so I am glad of that in any case (although chances are I wouldn't use it anyways, I have never wanted to have two penises but I still wouldn't hold against her the fact that she had purchased it with the hope that it would someday be used on her)

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

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