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RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:07:05 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline 		Where as I don't exactly like where this thread is going I figure why ignore the elephant in the living room.

laurell3, I have to disagree with you, in a way, the pack/clique mentality that can be found on these boards are part of th charm that some people are seeking. I see people come here and will blindly agree with anyone who is part of that pack/clique.

There was a thread that was about a girl having an issue with her current place in relationship that was designed to imply that she was not equal to other people in that relationship. None of what her issue was had anything to do with any other thing than that she we having an internal struggle and didn't know how to sort it out. In her attempt to define the relationship she informed the boards that there was a 31 year difference in their ages, the thread snowballed into a post about age, responsibility of a Dominant, and how at a certain age it is irresponsible to date someone of another certain age. I held the Very unpopular opinion that there was nothing wrong with the decision she made, I saw it as something that had the ability to last for as long as it needed but that eventualy the difference in age would become an issue but for now there was no harm, the guy checked out and wasn't spoken of poorly in his community and all things considered this girl had made a pretty good choice in Dominants, even though there were 31 years seperating them. I won't say I was Flamed but I will tell you that I was certainly not agreed with.

Now to the point - I got like 6 e-mails from people saying that they were happy I was speaking up because they agreed with me. They all spoke of how the "In-Crowd" will get on to something and then make such a loud responce that people with the unpopular opinion do not see any value in replying, they feel in doing so they will not be heard because their voice will be over powered by the voices of those looking to have the Popular opinion.

I think this is part of the issue, some people think that cannot speak up. I will argue a point that at times doesn't even apply to me, I will argue the point of Equality and Independence in the dating scene and will argue the idea that expecting the male to pay is sexist and works to show a hypocracy in the Equality world. I made my personal point of view made, I believe I made it clearly enough that I perfer to pay that it is how I am wired, but that I think anyone having the expectation that I should pay is not being equal or independant. Somehow this eventually came to be argued that I think women who want me to pay for a cup of coffee are whores. Because I held the unpopular opinion that a woman wanting equality and to call herself independant should be equally as interested in paying a check as I am, I became someone who was attackable. So Attackable that these judgements against me have shown up in OTHER threads, ones that have nothing to do with the original thread.

In most cases what I had actually said was Ignored, Snippits of what I had said were taken and blown so far out of porportion that I was accused to saying that woman aren't worthy of being considered equal, that I did not think women could do certain things, Every possible way that I could be attacked from was taken by someone, people that usually do just that, find something they don't like and then attack the hell out of it hoping that it will go away.

But I don't back down from my views. I don't mind not having the unpopular opinion. I don't mind having people call me mean and nasty names or implying that I believe mean and nasty things. I know how I feel, I can only express it so well, and in the end I have the ability to share my opinion anywhere I like on this site.

I find it funny how many times I get e-mails that say.... "I don't always agree with you, but I like how you stand up for youtr beliefs" and in the end that is what I don't see enough of on the internet.

I don't see new people getting to see the fact that things can be done differently, that people can speak up for the unpopular oppinion, because there is an "In-Crowd" and there isn't anything wrong with that, but it would be nice if they were universally aware of the influence they have on the new and the uneducated and start presenting their views as Opinions, not as absolutes..... even when they think all they are doing is backing an opinion remembering to allow for other views to be valid options.

I don't agree with a LOT in the BDSM world, Much of certain views trun my stomach, I think this is why I identify as I do, but I try very hard never to put down someones view in such a way as to state that there is NO redeaming quality in it, and I try to always say when I have presented things in a My own personal way kinda way, that it is my opinion only.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:17:56 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:



because there is an "In-Crowd" and there isn't anything wrong with that, but it would be nice if they were universally aware of the influence they have on the new and the uneducated and start presenting their views as Opinions, not as absolutes..... even when they think all they are doing is backing an opinion remembering to allow for other views to be valid options.




and this is the crux of the problem... could you please show me the list of who are in the "in-crowd" and who is not. I am sure it would be appreciated by those that are part of the "in-crowd" so they can be aware that they hold this powerful influence on the new and uneducated. I am sure the "in-crowd" doesn't want to be irresponsible with this power of theirs.

btw... how doesn't one become a member of this "in-crowd"? So as I know how to avoid it and who to avoid



< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 6/29/2010 7:22:25 AM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:27:34 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		QSM,

We actually agree on much of what you said. The problem lies in your belief that popularity is the cause for stifling adults from speaking in anonymous text on the internet. That's ridiculous. If you reread my post, you will see THAT is my point. People blame their own issues on this "cool kids club" and really I would guess none of the people they see that way would even WANT to be seen that way. This isn't high school.

I don't care what other people are posting. I post what I believe to be true for me. I don't really care if that makes me popular or not. I really cannot fathom an adult that's anonymous feeling so unconfident that they cannot post. That's not about the "in-crowd" that's about that person's own lack of worth.

I agree, people really need to stop and question why they feel that way and just go ahead and make the post. It's only words, if someone attacks you, you can ignore them or tell them to knock it off. There is a poster that purposefully disagrees with everything I say and calls me names out of context often...I find it funny as hell that he goes to such extremes personally...it's entertaining, not remotely close to intimidating.
Hell when I started on CM, there was a much bigger group of male doms that went OFF on subs all the time, for not typing submissively enough. I found that funny too.

In reality, I think most people here do respect others FOR stating their own opinion, even when it's different.

Well, except the whole...I'm looking4 a true domme to cut my penis off thing....

No one ever has to agree with anything I say. I'm not here for high school histrionics. I'm also not here to hold anyone's hand (except Jeff's...wait...that's not his hand).

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:28:35 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		KoM

You are the taker of yarn, a legend in your own time...you don't need no stinkin crowd!

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:31:01 AM   
AQuietSimpleMan


Posts: 1410
Joined: 11/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:



because there is an "In-Crowd" and there isn't anything wrong with that, but it would be nice if they were universally aware of the influence they have on the new and the uneducated and start presenting their views as Opinions, not as absolutes..... even when they think all they are doing is backing an opinion remembering to allow for other views to be valid options.




and this is the crux of the problem... could you please show me the list of who are in the "in-crowd" and who is not. I am sure it would be appreciated by those that are part of the "in-crowd" so they can be aware that they hold this powerful influence on the new and uneducated. I am sure the "in-crowd" doesn't want to be irresponsible with this power of theirs.

btw... how doesn't one become a member of this "in-crowd"? So as I know who to avoid it.




And you are right that is part of the problem, the "In'Crowd" is a Concept. There is no list of people, but that there are people who see you in one.

For instance certain Poly People may see YOU KnightofMists as a member of the "In-Crowd" you are rarely challanged for your beliefs and when you are you are usually backed up by a large group of people, your one slaves rounding that out, in most cases defending your views or posting in the afermative of them.

People who have "Memmeber of Moga-In crowd" in their sig line might be seen as people in the "In-Crowd" as it implies that they indeed are in an "In-Crowd"

People who belong to the Subbie Mafia,

People who have logged more hours on the "Holly & Potty Show" than they have in any other forum may be part of an "In-Crowd"

See the point is, is that the "In-Crowd" the Clique is determined by the person who is outside looking in.

When you have someone who wants to be a part of something and looks up to certain group thinkers, Mob cliques, belief systems, or otherwise you see people are for last of a better word, Popular.

KnightofMists you have to accept that there are people who look up to you and model themselves after the things you say here if for no other reason that you have a successful relationship that a lot of people are seeking in the lifestyle.

Because your entirity of self is never conveyed in posts people are modeling an incomplete concept, do they see what you agree with and what you don't and then they try to fill in the rest as absolutes.

It is VERY common and not always a bad thing is just makes them people who are Followers and Not Leaders, they seek an idea to emulate that they believe will make them happy.

In an online community (Group if you dislike the word community) they seek a group of people that they see as being better than the rest and then want to fit in with them, even if that means emulating the same beliefs they have.

QSM

_____________________________

Guy Stud =Vs= Girl Slut ~~ Debate ENDED!

"If a Key opens many locks, then it is a Master Key, If a Lock is opened by lots of keys, then it is a Shitty Lock"

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:38:15 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline 		AQSM, I remember that thread.  As I recall, there was a wide range of views.  People who most would consider each other friends, or the esteemed charter members of the  "in crowd" actually didn't even agree with each other.  They had differing views.   I think this kind of throws the theory of the mean girls or "in crowd" out the window.

Usually when you see people gang up on others, and step forward as a "clique" it was because the person being attacked was an irresistable fucktard, and he needed poking.  (He used in the generic.  I've seen female fucktards too.)

Get off the computer.  Go out into the real world and you see liars and disingenuous people all the time too. 

It may be easier to present a nicer or cleaner, or wiser image online but hell, you don't have spell-check in the real world.  If someone is around enough, in real life or online, you learn who they are.  If they are disingenuous, it usually starts bleeding through the "image." 

People who are followers and emulate others are still responsible for their own choices. 

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 6/29/2010 7:46:04 AM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:47:08 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

In her attempt to define the relationship she informed the boards that there was a 31 year difference in their ages, the thread snowballed into a post about age, responsibility of a Dominant, and how at a certain age it is irresponsible to date someone of another certain age. I held the Very unpopular opinion that there was nothing wrong with the decision she made, I saw it as something that had the ability to last for as long as it needed but that eventualy the difference in age would become an issue but for now there was no harm, the guy checked out and wasn't spoken of poorly in his community and all things considered this girl had made a pretty good choice in Dominants, even though there were 31 years seperating them. I won't say I was Flamed but I will tell you that I was certainly not agreed with.

Now see, I find this interesting.  That down on another thread I have seen this said in reverse.  Talking about the same thread as you QSM, that they themselves took what was an unpopular view and got flamed.  You know what?  They were of the opposite view to you - that the age difference was inappropriate.

So we have one thread, with two different people suggesting that their opposite views are the most unpopular.  So, in reality where does the truth lay?

Personally, I always find the claim that 'I've had lots of people emailing me privately to tell me how great I am and how everyone else sucks' to be pretty lame.  It's not like anyone can prove it unless they post all these wonderful supportive emails out here - but no one can.  So it's heresay and I personally cannot take the words of anyone who cannot back up their claims with any serious consideration.

The crunch is, very few people trust themselves.  So they end up asking questions that might seem silly - like do I tell the truth, or the ones like is my partner supposed to cheat on me and should I just accept it because I am his slave..... or they make statements that attempt to back up their ideas - to give them some sort of credence with all these private emails and correspondance they have.

Just say what you believe and trust your own word or instincts and don't think there is some rule book to relationships or some gang to follow.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/29/2010 7:48:35 AM >

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:51:21 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc


Personally, I always find the claim that 'I've had lots of people emailing me privately to tell me how great I am and how everyone else sucks' to be pretty lame. 



I always shake my head when people post about how all these others post behind the scenes to support them, because their supporters are too scared to post.  I don't find this lame, I find it kind of manipulative and insincere.  If someone writes me, and tells me they support me behind the scenes but are too embarassed or scared or whatever to step up, I don't really find their support to be very meaningful. 

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 6/29/2010 7:54:17 AM >

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:54:26 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

Unfortunately many people are afraid to say what is on their mind at times for fear of angering the other person, insulting them, offending them, pushing them away, turning them off and on and on.



I know I do..it scares the living crap outta me(Shudders)..That's why I'm so quiet at times.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:57:28 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc


Personally, I always find the claim that 'I've had lots of people emailing me privately to tell me how great I am and how everyone else sucks' to be pretty lame. 



I always shake my head when people post about how all these others come out of the woodwork to support them, because their supporters are too scared to post.  I don't find this lame, I find it kind of manipulative and insincere.  If someone writes me, and tells me they support me behind the scenes but are too embarassed or scared or whatever to step up, I don't really find their support to be very meaningful. 


I do agree with you winsome.  Lame was probably the wrong word to use and too non descript and I totally agree with your assessment.

the.dark.


_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:57:29 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		fast reply...

I suppose I wasn't direct enough about those who emailed me on the other side... I do not think that it was because of an "in crowd" that they felt unable to voice their opinions... there were two that emailed me were people who had personal experiences with a vast age difference when they were very young. Not everyone is strong enough to relate experiences that are painful for them on internet discussion boards....I wish these two in particular had weighed in because they had experiences analogous to the situation of the original poster. When sharing a personal and painful experience it is often hard to "defend" the negative emotions that you are left with, and if I had experiences like those emailing me, well I wouldn't have weighed in either...

Here is my position on the opinions I posted. I did so for the benefit of the person that came in and asked advice. Once it was clear she didn't appreciate my advice I left the discussion... end of story as far as I am concerned...\

As for being in an "in crowd", I am far too opinionated to ever be accepted in one....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 7:59:08 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan

See the point is, is that the "In-Crowd" the Clique is determined by the person who is outside looking in.




very true.... and sometimes a very misguided choice by some.

I will contend that to some degree that my experiences of living my life as caused some to put me into an "in-crowd" in certain aspects in some people's eyes. However, does that equate to me having to be responsibility for their choices? That I must live up to the image that they have of me. An image that most likely is incomplete and maybe even unrealistic. For the most part, I am not even responsible for those groupie's that come to support my view points. I say the most part since a couple of those groupies are my slaves.

I think it's sad that we need to make excuses for the choices of others. People don't post because they blame someone else or other such lame excuses. Even worse they elevate some to hero worship and things crash for them when it doesn't work as they imagine it. Ironically, there are more than a few s-types that learned things the hard way by their unrealistic hero worshipping. What I find even more pathetic is the d-types that sit quietly listening to someone they see as in the "in-crowd". Looking through the window so to speak and learning how "in-crowd" d-type does it. But, you never really learn a whole lot looking through the window. It's been awhile, but I spent time talking and listening, asking question to those "in-crowd" types you speak of. Sometimes even today.. I will ask a questions to learn from the "in-crowd".

If they want to learn from me... then come and ask. There have been some that have done so... and honestly.. I have never turned one a way that wishes to pick my brain. But in the end... they are all responsible for their choices. Some make good choices and some not so much.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AQuietSimpleMan)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 8:00:29 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I know I do..it scares the living crap outta me(Shudders)..That's why I'm so quiet at times.



*coughs*

the.dark.


_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 8:01:26 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

As for being in an "in crowd", I am far too opinionated to ever be accepted in one....


Where in the pecking order do you think you are? Inquiring minds wanna know, ya know.


_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 8:02:03 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

fast reply...

As for being in an "in crowd", I am far too opinionated to ever be accepted in one....


You are a member of the crowd of fluffy bossoms I like to perve.  Doesn't that cout for something?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 8:02:12 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		i am not much one for following the herd... i dislike square dancing too
i have totally my own opinion but if my opponent has a very good argument i might  change my mind

i dislike it when these board get used as chat rooms with lots of hugs and kisses and these smiley things that i don't seem to beable to operate on my computer.

sometimes i get private emails of people after i have been involved in a discussion... sometimes good and sometimes bad and sometimes pitifully pathetic, i do not often respond to private mail.

There are people here complaining to the mods about posters while they themselves are saying very rude things... this happened to me when i had a thread on what to do with a marble egg and one 'respected' poster actually wished that the egg would splinter inside of me.
This poster then started a thread herself in which she asked what people should ask of new potential partners regarding their health... how much proof you should have of them being healthy and decease free.
So i wrote in that i would most definitely ask people if they'd ever had sex with a marble egg if i were her... which i thought was rather funny, she had it removed and the moderators told me off.... but her rude comments on my thread were kept up... i thought that was an eyeopener.

some people here fancy themselves as mods and they think they have to tell other posters the rules and point out how old threads are, well, whatever rocks your boat i presume.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 8:02:29 AM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
I know I do..it scares the living crap outta me(Shudders)..That's why I'm so quiet at times.



*coughs*

the.dark.





_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 8:05:25 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

As for being in an "in crowd", I am far too opinionated to ever be accepted in one....


Where in the pecking order do you think you are? Inquiring minds wanna know, ya know.



I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.......and if I ever do, someone shoot me...

I have a real life, CM is a way to pass the time. Right now I am not at home to be around my real life comrades, so I get bored and post here....Mostly to laugh at Jeffff and DG


I have nothing of value to add to most of the BDSM threads these days seeing I am suffering a submissive identity crisis at the moment

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 8:06:25 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
Personally, I always find the claim that 'I've had lots of people emailing me privately to tell me how great I am and how everyone else sucks' to be pretty lame. 

the.dark.



Yeah I love those posts, "you people are so mean and I get letters about it"

Well then, you are getting letters from pussy's.

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: The Image that is Given - 6/29/2010 8:06:25 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

fast reply...

As for being in an "in crowd", I am far too opinionated to ever be accepted in one....


You are a member of the crowd of fluffy bossoms I like to perve.  Doesn't that cout for something?


Only if you let me look up your skirt

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 60
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