jlf1961
Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
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I have been following this debate since it started, and except for a few snarky posts, have pretty much just read.
However, what no body has done is actually quote the bible or any religious text concerning free will.
In the old testament, it is implied we have free will:
quote:
Dt.30:19
I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life.
Joshua 24:15
Choose you this day whom ye will serve.... But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
However, in the new testament, it says we have no free will:
quote:
Acts 13:48
And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom.8:29-30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom.9:11-22
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? ... Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.
Eph.1:4-5
He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
2 Th.2:11-12
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned.
2 Tim.1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
Jude 4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation.
That would imply that the choice is taken from us, which means that no matter what, we have no choice in the matter.
_____________________________
Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?
You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.
Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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RE: The Big Choice...or is it really a choice? - 
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