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Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 12:51:02 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I was going to start this post today, and now I see it is close to what Celeste has already begun in the "What's been lost" thread.  In fact, I read it, thinking perhaps My question was already being coverered.  But not quite.
When seeking a submissive or a slave (please bear in mind that I seek slaves) where do others draw the line regarding recreational activities?  On the one hand I am not some sort of ogre who will refuse time needed to refresh and enjoy.  On the other hand, I would hope that spending time with Me and My interests would be reason enough to limit those needed times for activites which hold no interest for Me.  It is probably also important to note that I am coming from an older age view point, more settled, and seek a boy in the same situation.  Kids have grown up, and the petitioner is closer to retirement or already retired.
I have spoken to many boys over the years, and I often run into the stumbling block of habitual vacation/leisure time (boating, skiiing, fishing, hunting, golfing thrice weekly).  This coupled, often, with a normal work schedule, severely cuts into the time for service.  I really have no problem with friends and family, but I am of the firm belief that if you want a Mistress (Master), then your main focus should be your Mistress (Master). 
I note that twicehappy, who is now with ShiftedJewel and ScooterTrash specifically sought a Dominant who rides (motorcycles) so that is an activity that is loved by all and shared by all.  What do others do when the activites are not something that can be shared, and the probability  exists that this loved activity will remove the slave from the household for what might be considered excessive time? (Example:  Several days each month/ every other weekend.)
What have submissives/slaves given up in order to enter into and maintain a D/s or M/s relationship with a chosen Dominant?  What have Dominants expected a submissive or slave to give up in order to make the D/s or M/s relationship work?


< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 4/17/2006 1:13:55 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 12:57:25 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		Only thing I've ever asked anyone to give up was illegal substances.  I know from personal experience that they are just not as useful as they might seem.

It's more of a give and take kind of thing for me, but then again, I regularly consider bd/sm as I enjoy it, to just be a single facet of my relationship with someone.  An enjoyable one, to be sure, but were the entire 'play' aspect to end completely and utterly, there should be something there to fill the void, namely the relationship that it was an extension of in the first place.

Maybe I'm just not grasping what yer asking, and if I'm coming up short... sorry.


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 1:12:48 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Well, I agree about the give and take idea.  Meaning they give and I take.  *Smile*
I don't mean to be unclear, but, for Me, in seeking an M/s relationship, I do expect that energy flow all the time, and that is hard to maintain if the boy has to be out on the golf course every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, while I am at home alone. Although leisure activites are important, I am wondering, in terms of D/s and M/s, not just kinky playtime, what adjustments people have made from both sides of the whip.

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Dustyn)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 1:16:46 PM   
pissdoll


Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline 		i think this is an extremely important issue that is all too often overlooked.

i spent almost 10 years in a 24/7 where any interests that didn't match my Master's were taken away from me.  Having had time now to look back and reflect, i think we really both suffered for it.

There is nothing like a slave/submissive who is passionate, and passion spills over into all areas of life.  i think i became a very boring and uninteresting "thing."  Yes, he had total servitude from me, etc etc...but he could have had so much more.

i have a total passion for baseball (both playing and watching).  i was having a conversation with a friend who is a male Dom and he made the comment that if he owned a slave like me, my love of baseball would bother him, since he hates sports.  He thought about it for a while and then decided that if he had a slave into sports, he would make her wear an anal plug when she played, so that she would be thinking of him and would also have a story when it was over that they could discuss.  The thought made him feel in charge of the situation, and sometimes...that's really all that is needed.

Maybe it would help if certain hobbies were earned (golf only when A, B, and C are accomplished).  Instead of 3 days a week, it could be 1 day a week or possibly  2 for exceptional behavior.

It can be tricky to navigate, and in the end, maybe sometimes it means that a person isn't a good match for you, even though other things are copacetic.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 1:21:58 PM   
starymists


Posts: 139
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline 		For myself, I've never had to give up anything for another. Part of that is making sure there is 'vanilla' compatibility. Having similar interests, for me, is something that is important. A perfect example? I love the water and the beach. My Dominant loves to fish, although he doesn't like the beach...but if we get a boat for the day, I'm near the water and he's fishing and we are both happy and content. But, on the other hand, if someone just isn't interested in being near the water, given that I spend a great deal of time there, we are probably not going to be a match. I spend a great deal of time getting to know someone as a friend to ensure that compatability prior to engaging in D/s M/s activities to ensure that we have enough in common to build on.
 
A perfect example of things that take me away? I enjoy working out. Generally means an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, 5-6 days a week *depending on schedule*. My Dominant enjoys a completely different routine. I'm out on the bike for an hour in the morning *actually in the neighborhood* while he prefers machines in the house. I will always take the time to enjoy my bike, and he has no particular problem with that. I suppose it could be construed as 'excessive', but the benefits of his allowing me that time usually means I am more relaxed, more focused, and in a better frame of mind, having destressed from work that I am when I don't excercise. So the quality of service he receives is generally much higher. I guess it's like he says to me on a fairly regular basis "the price you pay for the game you wanna play". He enjoys the level of service, so he's not overly focused on the quantity.

< Message edited by starymists -- 4/17/2006 1:23:38 PM >

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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 1:28:20 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think those are essential questions to ask when deciding to engage in a long term committed relationship.  One always hopes that compatibility will simply be natural, yet there's simply never going to be someone out there who always has the same interest level at the same time in everything that I do.

Where the level of reasonability is depends on everyone's situation.  It would go against myself to be owned by someone who would order me to cut off all contact with my biological family and other partners.  But what about an owner who didn't want me to ever watch or refer to Buffy or Firefly ever again?  On the surface I'd have to say that wouldn't work for me, but hey who knows.

I think if a slave has limits and limitations, such as being a mother, then they should be proud of that and accept the consequences- a great dom might not be a good match because they don't want to raise children.  I accept that a monogamous master will never be good for me and I would never be good for them.

Exactly where the line is for any particular thing, needs to be evaluated and hopefully broached BEFORE the commitment is made.  I completely respect a dom who says "I need a slave who will do X Y and Z and you can't provide Z to me so we won't work out."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 1:46:08 PM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline 		I have just gone through this with a submissive, only in our case, it wasn't leisure activity. It was his family, which made it a hell of a lot tougher.

(Hope no one minds if I tell our story here.)

I come from a loose-knit family. We don't do Sunday dinner at the parents' house. Hell, we barely afford each other a full evening on the holidays. I talk to my sister on the phone a few times a week. I email my Father daily. To actually visit family though, I'd say *maybe* once a month, if that.

The submissive comes from a tight-knit family. They all live within a block of each other. They all work in the same building (family business), they share finances, they talk on the phone numerous times each day. They all attend the younger ones' sporting events. They spread the holidays over several days. They vacation together for a few weeks each summer.

After mom, dad, sibling, aunts, uncles, cousins, ball games, holidays, work...........
Mistress was starting to fall pretty low on the totem poll.
ESPECIALLY since this submissive was still "in the closet" AND we had not reached the point of live-in status.
Time with family was equal to time away from me.
Often, after an 8 hour work day, and then attending a family member's sporting event, and then checking in on an elderly family member, and then popping over to (whatever relative)'s house to do some kind of monetary thing, it would be nearing 10:00 at night and the only "submission" I had received was talking on the phone a few times throughout the day.

Now, bear in mind....
The bond between us was there. he wanted me as his Mistress. I wanted him as my submissive. Our interests were compatible. Our definitions in the lifestyle were compatible. We both wanted this D/s relationship.

Now inside mind you, I'm burning my own brains out with CUT THE APRON STRINGS ALREADY!!!!, but outside, I know and understand that we just come from different family types. I felt (and still feel) that I have no place to tell a submissive (and hell, maybe not even a slave), that they are expected to give up the familial. But I did feel that it was reasonable for me to demand more time since well... this isn't a casual vanilla dating situation...

Unfortunately, the submissive wasn't willing to sacrifice any time with his family. At the same time, he wanted to accomodate my desire to have him around more. He ended up popping in on the way to work, stopping over on lunch, stopping in after work.... just generally making "pop-in" visits all day long every day.  And he wore himself out and, frankly, wasn't much use as a sub. As a friend, absolutely! As a casual play partner, great! Even as a confidant. He is still a wonderful person. But just isn't able to keep up with the demands of both his family and a Mistress.

I removed his collar.
Not because he had broken a contract. Not because he was a "bad" sub. Not because he had not minded. Simply because I felt at this point in his life, he was not ready for that level of commitment. As a Dominant, I felt it was healthier for him to learn seperation from family at his own pace, instead of a pace dictated by what could have been seen as an overdemanding woman.

I know deep down inside that the same issue will arise for him if he even tries a vanilla relationship with a woman. Unless maybe she is integrated as part of his family. We're still very close friends and talk on the phone daily and still get together and do things. And both of us are sad that the D/s thing didn't work out.

I guess for me, I'm in agreement with you GDG.... a submissive's primary (not only) focus should be his/her Mistress. If I apply the situation above, but substitute "leisure activity" instead of family, it would have been pretty simple for me. I would have probably said "You get X number of hours and that's that. Take it or leave."

This might sound harsh, or uncaring, or egotistical, or whatever, but if I'm not at the top (or pretty damn close to the top) of my submissive's totem pole, I don't care to even be on it, unless it's "as a friend".

I think part of the reason is because what I seek in power exchange is 24/7, full-time, lifestyle (insert appropriate term here). When that is drastically reduced (for whatever reason), the relationship begins feeling like "play times" instead. Not necessarilly because we're "playing" (in the fetish/bondage/kink sense), but because I feel like my sub's submission is a role that they put on for a few hours around me, and then remove when they move on to the majority of their time.

I'm not saying I need my submissive on my hip 24 hours a day. I understand there are normative obligations in life beyond one's Dominant. But I do want an ample amount of my submissive's time to either be with me, or in service to me. Otherwise, to me, it's starts feeling like timeshare domination.

I don't know if that in any way addressed the question at hand, but it was definitely long winded.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 2:08:10 PM   
MasterRenegade77


Posts: 1852
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Upstate N.Y. (Broome Co.)
Status: offline
I think that all these things should all be hashed out right from the onsetDuring the initial Petition of Service period where you're getting to know each other...
I also think a Dom/me should be flexible, like pissdoll said just because I don't like baseball I'd not forbid a slave from watching it or playing so long as it didn't become intrusive of our Relationship... There definately have to be limits of course but they need to be negotiated from the onset!!!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 2:11:27 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Upon reflecting further, I have thought of a few things that I have 'given up' in order to be of service to Himself and live life as he chooses for us. Some could be considered compromise rather than a result of the M/s dynamic. I guess that would be perspective.  For example, the man is highly allergic to cats, so we can't have a cat as a pet. Master hates cats, so we wouldn't have a cat. Compromise or command, the end result is the same.  Everything else is about control. Riding motorcycles, ball dancing, engaging in my penchant for sadism.. all these are controlled or disallowed now where if we were not in an M/s dynamic, I would be riding, dancing and piercing as often and as much as I desired. But these activities are of minor importance when compared to the enrichment of living what is right for me.  I can't complain. Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 2:22:29 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		This definitely addressed it.  Thank you so much for sharing.
I agree that different familial relationships and how close those relationships are can be a sticky matter.  And I can actually understand that and release a boy from consideration when that is the situation.  It is easier and I can't and won't fight about his family time.  What I feel is reasoanble, and what he feels is reasonable, and even what his family feels is reasonable is important and must be a good enough match.  Especially since most are not out or completely out.
However, when it is vacation times, getting up to the moutains for several days each month, or frequent long weekends, I realize this is important, but I have to consider if it is more important the a relationship with Me.  I have no problem with scheduled work out time.  I have no problem with a college class or an evening out with friends on occasion.  But when I am told that this is the schedule, it seems a shame.  Because I do feel, like you said, as if I am the person who is being worked into their already busy schedule.
I always have to draw the conclusion that being a slave is not a top priority.  Or it is not what they thought a slave was, or they are just not mentally and emotionally ready for this sort of commitment.  I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt, but it usually turns out to be so. 

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Proprietrix)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 2:25:29 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		As far as interests go, probably the only thing I can think of which I have given up is a potential to return to India, a country which I love spending time in. Master has no interest in that area and I knew this when I entered the relationship. I accepted it as part of the new phase of life I was entering into. However I have introduced him to the idea that martial arts was born in India, so perhaps I will get to go back there one day *grin*

As far as recreational activities Master and I enjoy the same things, or are things that can benefit the relationship if they are things that I do and Master doesnt, example: I love doing leadlighting and I love going bargain hunting.

I'm the type of person who likes to get wrapped up by my partner's desires and I will absorb any activity he leads me to. I dont feel any need to participate in things *away* from Master, I dont see the point in having extra-cirrucular activities away from the center of my universe (him).

Agree with whats been said as well, I wouldnt be with him if we werent compatable and had to lead separate lives in part,  in order for us to feel happy and fulfilled. We *do* together.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 2:38:38 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Thank you for the input so far.  To Lucky and Renegade, I definitely appreciate that these things need to be negotiated prior to any firm commitment.  It seems that whenever I meet someone with the right mindset in other areas, this is always a sticking point.  There are certain things that will not be given up or even compromised. The realization suddenly comes that a way of life will actually change.  The slave may not have the same flexibility to just up and go and do something.  This is where most of the boys with whom I have had any extended talks, have had to agree to back away and rethink their idea of service.
Pissdoll, I would not prevent a slave from reasonable participation in sports.  The operative word is "reasonable".  And what I consider reasonable might not be reasonable to the slave applicant.   I do not want ESPN (is that the right sports network?) blasting on the tv all the time.  I prefer HGTV.  *Smile*  Who wins?  And I would trust that any slave of mine would not need to be wearing a butt plug while playing ball.  Ouch!  Sometimes things can be taken a bit too far?  But that is a matter of opinion also.
starymists, I think you and your Master have struck a beautiful compromise.  I could do the same.  I do not mind snuggling in the ski lodge while the boy skis.  It is a nice weekend for both, albeit not the exact same activities at the same time.  Not a problem. And a few days without Me is not a problem either.  When it is a few days away very often, it can become a problem.

quote:

But these activities are of minor importance when compared to the enrichment of living what is right for me.


Celeste, thank you.  You do have a way with words, and this is exactly what the decision comes down to for Me, also. 

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 4/17/2006 2:39:55 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 3:00:24 PM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		things that cause bonding that is what is all about. we cant all like the same things  but we can open doors to new explorations. to many expect someone to be an identical twin. that would be boring how would you grow. but these are things that one can share. its like everything that i love about bdsm things that i enjoy i would only share with someone i love thats the spice of being with someone purrrrrrrrrrrrrr
huggles

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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 3:17:23 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		If someone shared my beliefs and values in things that I consider important, their leisure activities wouldn't bother me.  I would try to find ways to amuse myself during their absence.  Or I would make an effort to learn about their activities, to possibly share it with them.  It depends on the activities, of course.  This all gets sticky when you consider that the Dom/Master's thing is "control" and he/she may enjoy exercising this control into leisure activities.

spelling edit


< Message edited by KatyLied -- 4/17/2006 3:18:17 PM >

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 3:24:37 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I'm not even sure this is a M/s issue- it's a lifetime relationship issue, unless you're talking a "never interact socially/absolutely not caring any whit about the slave's interests/personality" (which is a completely legit form of M/s, just a rare one).

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who felt they needed to compromise a key part of who they are and what they need to be who they are in order to be with me. 

And I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who felt I should compromise a key part of WHO I AM and what I need to BE who I am.

There's plenty to go around- there's really no reason to give up any of that.

That being said, I've never known a long term relationship (excl. the aforementioned rare type) where there wasn't some "give and take" on all parties.  Limitations on time and energy and availability simply require it.  Consequences lead to new situations lead to more consequences.  It's all about being in a relationship together, walking through life and creating a unit.  I think the successful relationships understand that process and work with it- rather than trying to ignore it or break through it.

M/s just means the unit follows the owners authority. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 3:25:37 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline 		That's probably where we crossed vapor trails and went in different directions, Dusty (wow, it's hard to type that name and not add the 'n' at the end LOL)

I've got less than no experience, first hand or just observing someone else, with a M/s relationship, so I think I'll just shut my trap and read for a bit.  It's not something that has ever appealed to me in the least, so that might have something to do with that, but who knows.

I would imagine that there are always bound to be conflicts of interest and what not like that.  Had some problems once with a roommate who was almost diametrically opposed to me, except that we both drank like fishes andwere social rebels.  We ended up working out that if he did this, I would be allowed to do that, but only when the other was not around.  Not really an M/s type of relationship, but in the end, it's still just interpersonal strife that occurs.

If it was me, I would sit down and make a list of things I like that the other person does and a list for those things I don't like and have the other person do the exact same thing.  Hand out 3 colored markers, 1 for "I can live without this", "I'd could handle doing this less but don't wanna give it up" and "This is non-negotiable".  Go over each other's lists and put a dot of the right color by each item and just take it from there.

But hey, that's just me, and I have an intense dislike of being told by someone that suppsedly accepts me that part of who I am is unacceptable.  I'll always be open to compromise but don't dictate to me.  That's how I look at it, which kind of invalidates the concept of an M/s relationship. LOL

Opinions on that idea? =)

- Dustyn


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 3:37:34 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold
What have Dominants expected a submissive or slave to give up in order to make the D/s or M/s relationship work?


Quite simply, anything I want. Having said that, I find most human interests to be entertaining, and worth exploring together with my girl if she so happens to have particular loves of things—even if I would never have stumbled upon those things myself. I prefer usually to allow a slave to continue with her interests and pastimes, so long as these things do not interfere with her service to me.

If the loves of my slave happen to fall outside of my ability to enjoy with her and significantly subtract from her attention to me, I will put an end to them or her service to me in general.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 3:46:47 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Being in a Master/Mistress slave/submissive relationship is supposed to be about dominating and submitting. One dominates and one submits, I cant help but think if there is conflict in this area either the wrong partner has been chosen or the submissive just really isnt submissive, or at least not submissive enough to be involved in a long term day to day dominant/submissive relationship, which is totally fine, but why pretend it's more than it is?



_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 4:02:01 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

But what about an owner who didn't want me to ever watch or refer to Buffy or Firefly ever again? 


Jeesh Tross, what kind of sadists are you mixed up with??

quote:

I prefer usually to allow a slave to continue with her interests and pastimes, so long as these things do not interfere with her service to me.


I encourage anyone I am involved with to have other interests and activities.  If they did not, I would be concerned and also probably feel smothered.  But as many have stated, there becomes a point when you have to determine priorities.

(in reply to slavejali)
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RE: Matching Vanilla - 4/17/2006 4:57:44 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		Aloha GDR...
 
My thoughts are decide for yourself how many hours a day you require, and what tasks are required from the outset. 
 
I am very clear, after having given it a lot of thought, about what I really want, what duties and responsibilities I require. Believe it or not slaves that are not intensely focused on me are the best kind, I want them to have a life and friends and sports ect, to me it offers back so much more to the relationship. 
 
This takes the burden off you in that you dont have to regulate what they can and cant do with their free time and you assure yourself of the best possible service.

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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