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Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/24/2010 5:58:04 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
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Masterful Leadership Qualified or not?


In the present day society there are those who would argue that masterful leadership is gender specific and the various qualities which constitute the definition of masterful leadership are too gender specific. I can agree with the notion that masterful leadership is demonstrated by expressing various qualities. However this does not alter the fact that masterful leadership qualities are differently expressed by those of specific genders who choose to express such. This being factual does not necessarily denote that various qualities that constitute masterful leadership are gender specific. There are natural inclinations that inherently contribute to how these differences are demonstrated between the varying genders. Or rather a personal choice that is individually demonstrated.

The term [different] is all too commonly misunderstood when presented in discussions that involve delineating the differences between gender lines. Throughout history there have been examples of those who have broken through the many obstacles that are commonly related to preventing those who have qualities of masterful leadership from naturally excelling.

For example I will take into consideration (1) of the many accomplishments of Amelia Earhart. She being the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean became historically renowned. It is further noted that Amelia Earhart set numerous aviation records that had not been historically known prior to her proven aviation accomplishments. She proved that gender differences did not prohibit her in demonstrating masterful leadership qualities in the field of aviation. Obviously the preceding does not reflect the totality of accomplishments of Amelia Earhart.

What it does illustrate is the following: That the premise of what I am presenting for discussion is that there are qualities that define masterful leadership. These qualities are individually demonstrated differently by specific genders. However the difference do not exclude masterful leadership qualities from be demonstrated regardless of the specific genders.

I invite a constructive discussion that will explore the concept of masterful leadership qualities. I am presenting the following questions for discussion:

A] What qualities constitute masterful leadership?

B] Are masterful leadership qualities gender specific?

C] How are masterful leadership qualities defined and demonstrated among those who identify as a master within the confines of BDSM?

D] In what ways are the abilities to demonstrate masterful leadership qualities directly related to the capability to guide, direct, inspire or influence people?

E] In what ways do gender differences influence the expression or demonstration of masterful leadership qualities in general and among those in the BDSM Community?

Constructive replies are highly encouraged. Thank you, kindly!
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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/24/2010 6:21:44 PM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 373
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline 		I would say that generic answers can be given, but something that might be considered a masterful leadership quality in one instance might be considered a hinderence in another situation. Same is true in a bdsm context... it all depends on the people involved... what one girl needs in order to be successfully mastered might be the polar opposite of what another girl might need.

The abilty to 'read' a situation and do what is needed to succeed, i suppose, might be considered a masterful leadership quality that is generic enough to be true in all situations. Then some would ask if you always do what is needed to succeed whether or not that is what you actually *want* to do... are you being masterful?

~sgs

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/24/2010 6:50:02 PM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		Masterful leaders need good punctuation. Just saying.

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/24/2010 7:02:13 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar



A] What qualities constitute masterful leadership?


The ability to influence the person/s he/she is leading.

quote:

B] Are masterful leadership qualities gender specific?


Not necessarily, no.

quote:

C] How are masterful leadership qualities defined and demonstrated among those who identify as a master within the confines of BDSM?


It seems to be a very individual thing. In my view, most 'masters' within the confines of bdsm aren't masters at much of anything. Not even sure they should be or need to be. All you need to be a "bdsm" master is to find someone who sees you as such, and is willing to respond to you as such. It doesn't mean the "master" is really "masterful" at all, nor does it demonstrate masterful leadership.

The last two are hard to answer, because I'm not fully wrapping around the question.


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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/24/2010 8:48:10 PM   
sweetgirlserves


Posts: 373
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

Masterful leaders need good punctuation. Just saying.



No, actually, their secretaries do.



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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/24/2010 9:44:18 PM   
interlocutor


Posts: 68
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		Some answers for A]

  • be aware of and respect your own limitations
  • be aware of and respect the limitations of those you lead
  • learn from your mistakes
  • listen to those you lead
  • act with integrity
  • balance risk vs reward


These are some of things that top the list.

< Message edited by interlocutor -- 7/24/2010 9:45:31 PM >

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/24/2010 11:37:30 PM   
Jadga


Posts: 17
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		defining a Master or a slave or what makes either is like trying to capture a fart in a storm--impossiable and why bother? Personally I cant define a slave but I know one when I smell her! I figure is the same with the slaves--they can smell a Master a mile away--I dont deed words to define me--I did that in my mind 45 years ago--to me that is the only place I need to worry about.
I figure Iyou are not handsome and in a store the women look at you and drop eyes and do the body language of hair slinging or some other flirt--you are a Dom AS some girls describe it --you need the Moses Walk" people part for you like the red sea--your personna says what you are not your words.


I can teach ignorant but stupid is beyond me—you can’t fix stupid!

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/24/2010 11:39:38 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline 		I don't draw a distinction between "masterful leadership" and leadership in itself. It is a sub product of that after all and the school of thought still references tools that an effective leader that seeks to become well established in his trade would possess. Although the concept underscores the merits of lifelong learning, I'm of the belief it is not a factor of most leadership styles that many dominants employ. What constituted mastery in its original form is pitifully bastardized within BDSM. What has he mastered at all? I'd posit that most haven't mastered themselves, but that's another argument. 

What I find most interesting is the idea that there are gender differences in how leadership it carried out. I would still suggest that is largely influenced by the industry you're examining. In terms of how you've presented the questions, I'd argue that it is difficult to surmise without proper evaluation tools within the dynamic. How does he determine how she's progressing within a given time frame? Is he initiating periodic performance reviews? Those that employ a managerial style of dominance (which I prefer) have quantifiable data that they can draw from to gauge where the other party is at a given moment. And how does he examine himself for that matter?

Where I find challenges in what you're proposing is that the individual should have a firm grasp on leadership before they would seek the 'masterful path' which I think is merely another buzzword to sell a different way of saying the obvious. We're not talking Sun Tzu here. Therefore, my consensus is that leadership as indicated in your piece may be present in the physical sense in terms of mastering a craft, but I don't believe the tenets that go into it are prevalent within BDSM circles or society for that matter. It's a self-driven mentality that's naturally innate to its adherents

~porcelaine


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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 12:37:51 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		"Masterful Leadership" - to do what?

Officer recruitment for the military? Lead an off-world expedition? Captain an elite sporting team?

This being a Master's Forum of a BDSM site n all, are you advocating formal qualifications or extraordinary leadership skills just to have one's girl do as she's told to my (apparently) not so well credentialled standards?

I will at least offer that "gender specific leadership qualities" play absolutely no part in my personal relationships. There's only one chief and he's limited to only one gender.

Focus.

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 12:56:46 AM   
aldompdx


Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		A: One ultimately manifests themself. If they have not mastered their own faculties, they are less likely to inspire others to follow. Many will compensate for lack of self control by imposing control upon others.

B: No. However, there sometimes can be a greater bias based on life experience. A mother may be more nuturing, while a father may be more protective.

C: No substantive difference from other life activities. The specific outward manifestation (form) may vary.

D: The negative manifestation is manipulating others based on fear or subconscious emotional reaction. For example, one political party in the U.S. has misdirected the public from real issues of debt, health care, education, by sensationalizing abortion and weapons of mass destruction. The positive manifestation is inspiring others by example warranting honor and respect.

E: Every person is different. Gender is not the determinative factor.

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 1:59:40 AM   
lally2


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Joined: 4/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar

Masterful Leadership Qualified or not?
A] What qualities constitute masterful leadership?

knowing their 'subject'

B] Are masterful leadership qualities gender specific?

no

C] How are masterful leadership qualities defined and demonstrated among those who identify as a master within the confines of BDSM?

im not sure, it depends.  for many there is no specific leadership quality at all, just a botch-up of what they think they should be for the purposes of access to kink.  i dont believe there are any more 'leaders' in this relationship style than in vanilla, the only difference here is that, if they have those qualities and identify with being Dominant, they have the capacity to understand a sub and harness his/her submission effectively.

D] In what ways are the abilities to demonstrate masterful leadership qualities directly related to the capability to guide, direct, inspire or influence people?

i believe they are 'people watchers' they are invariably people who read people well and can get the best from people by identifying weaknesses and strengths and working from there.  they dont manipulate so much and they dont bully, they get their way quietly and efficiently by focusing on what they want and what they believe the other person is capable of.

E] In what ways do gender differences influence the expression or demonstration of masterful leadership qualities in general and among those in the BDSM Community?

i dont know, ive never been with a Domme to compare.

Constructive replies are highly encouraged. Thank you, kindly!


_____________________________

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 2:18:05 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I had written a lengthy post in reply to the OP but now reading the replies I find, as one oft does here, that all the points I wanted to cover are covered so off to WPB13 with the written reply... Jolly good posts folks.. Oh and by the by, my secretary and AdC both need punctuation and the AdC needs excellent administration and people skills.. After all why by two dogs and bark yourself.. Not the they are dogs but y'all get the point. 

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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 3:07:58 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I'm struggling to come up with a coherent reply (or a reply that's less incoherent than my usual) to this one because I'm stuck on what "masterful leadership".

My understanding of the term "Masterful leadership" - is of a specific type of (or approach to) leadership. People can be compelling leaders without needing to exhibit traits that are stereotypically gender specific. So..

A] What qualities constitute masterful leadership?

My definition of a "masterful leader" is someone who has courage, judgement and morals without being sentimental.

B] Are masterful leadership qualities gender specific?

No.

C] How are masterful leadership qualities defined and demonstrated among those who identify as a master within the confines of BDSM?

They exhibit the qualities of courage, judgement and morals without being sentimental.


D] In what ways are the abilities to demonstrate masterful leadership qualities directly related to the capability to guide, direct, inspire or influence people?

My definition of a "masterful leader" doesn't incorporate the notion of "guidance" - I see the masterful leader as someone who directs, inspires, influences. These people exhibit self-confidence, they are tolerant of contributions and suggestions but don't feel in any way bound by them. They are admired for their ability to communicate

Oddly, in the context of BDSM - it's easier to define the person who "thinks" they're a masterful leader - It's usually the aggressive guy or woman in the black leather who talks with a loud voice and gets snippy when you don't follow protocol. Poor, sad, pathetic beings.



E] In what ways do gender differences influence the expression or demonstration of masterful leadership qualities in general and among those in the BDSM Community?

I'm not sure they do in the context of my definition.


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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 4:15:33 AM   
BonesFromAsh


Posts: 1362
Joined: 6/17/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar


A] What qualities constitute masterful leadership?

Because I tend to get hung up on semantics, I took the time to look up the meaning of the word masterful
I'll be using that as a basis for my answer.

"Masterful leadership", in my opinion, means possessing the skills required to command or lead in a given situation.

B] Are masterful leadership qualities gender specific?

No. Having the ability to master a skill or command and lead has nothing to do with gender, imo.

C] How are masterful leadership qualities defined and demonstrated among those who identify as a master within the confines of BDSM?

Any fool can slap the title of master before his/her name...that doesn't mean they've mastered anyone or anything, especially themselves. Having the ability to inspire another to follow by showing your competency within different situations is a sign of possessing "masterful leadership qualities".

One example of a synonym for master is guide. For me, that ties into my interpretation of the word master both within bdsm and mainstream socieity.

D] In what ways are the abilities to demonstrate masterful leadership qualities directly related to the capability to guide, direct, inspire or influence people?

Please see previous answers.

E] In what ways do gender differences influence the expression or demonstration of masterful leadership qualities in general and among those in the BDSM Community?

Are you asking if a female dominant demonstrates these qualities differently from a male dominant? The style may differ but not the end product. That's more of an individual thing instead of a gender thing.

[/font]



< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 7/25/2010 4:20:52 AM >

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 7:36:37 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		A] What qualities constitute masterful leadership?
The very same qualities that denote good leaderships skills in any other area of life if you weren't talking about BDSM.  No more or less.

B] Are masterful leadership qualities gender specific?
No.  In My experience, those who believe that they are gender specific often cling to it to compensate for the fact that there is no one calling them "Master" at the current time at all.  Other than chat rooms, of course, or specific cultures such as Gorean, where all males are given the title.

C] How are masterful leadership qualities defined and demonstrated among those who identify as a master within the confines of BDSM?
In this, there are two parts.  The primary being the dynamic and (potentially) the secondary being the community.  Within the dynamic, it will be those qualities that inspire the slave to follow the lead.  Those can vary according to the importance of such characteristics to the slave.  Insofar as community, being a leather person Myself, it is often linked with organizing and promoting said community, working for continuing educational opportunities, elected position, and socially being recognized as running a successful leather household.

D] In what ways are the abilities to demonstrate masterful leadership qualities directly related to the capability to guide, direct, inspire or influence people?
I find it directly related to success.  If the leadership is effective, the one (or ones) who follow will continue to do so. 

E] In what ways do gender differences influence the expression or demonstration of masterful leadership qualities in general and among those in the BDSM Community?
This question tends to come across as though it is automatically assumed that gender makes a difference.  Something that you stated in your original as "factual".  In truth, this is not universal within the BDSM community.  Leather protocol specifically dictates that neither gender nor sexual orientation are the basis to determine how protocol is applied. 

Constructive replies are highly encouraged. Thank you, kindly!
You are quite welcome.  Enjoy your day.


< Message edited by LadyPact -- 7/25/2010 7:37:36 AM >

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 10:50:49 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Just because someone has accomplished something amazing does not mean they are a great leader. Being able to do is not the same as being able to teach.

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 11:59:10 AM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Just because someone has accomplished something amazing does not mean they are a great leader. Being able to do is not the same as being able to teach.


This. And in terms of BDSM relationships, just because you can lead Sue doesn't mean you're qualified to guide Jane. I think that little nugget is often overlooked. We each assign varying degrees of importance to leadership and the attributes we deem most important. The man that considers himself a 'masterful leader' could be an idiot in someone else's eyes. To a large degree this is subjective if your only manifestation of being masterful is your personal dynamic.

~porcelaine


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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 1:33:35 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

I would say that generic answers can be given, but something that might be considered a masterful leadership quality in one instance might be considered a hinderence in another situation. Same is true in a bdsm context... it all depends on the people involved... what one girl needs in order to be successfully mastered might be the polar opposite of what another girl might need.

The abilty to 'read' a situation and do what is needed to succeed, i suppose, might be considered a masterful leadership quality that is generic enough to be true in all situations. Then some would ask if you always do what is needed to succeed whether or not that is what you actually *want* to do... are you being masterful?

~sgs


~sgs:

I do agree that there can be generic generalizations that are given as an answer to most any question. However there are distinctions that are directly related to being masterful regardless what one is being masterful toward. The same is with leadership. Generic or generalized answers could very well be given toward defining the qualities that are related to leadership. I am of the thought that there are specific answers that can be given concerning this topic in regards to how masterful leadership is demonstrated and defined, generally speaking.

I assert the notion that not everyone who claims to be a master necessarily sets a goal of becoming masterful regarding their leadership skills. Nor does everyone that claims to be a leader become masterful. There are those who do aim to achieve the goal of becoming masterful in all of their leadership endeavors.

Thank you for your contribution. It was a joy to see that indeed you are still around these days. I hope you are well and thriving in whatever you are doing these days.

Take good care of you!

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 1:52:07 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples

Masterful leaders need good punctuation. Just saying.

daintydimples:
I was not clear that my secretary is the one responsible for editing all that I compose. I will let him know this latest addition to his already over burdened duties when I see him tomorrow. I am sure that this news will make his day! I can just see him now as he skips through the streets on his lunch hour singing his already favorite song of complaint to all of San Francisco.

"Over-worked and under-paid"



quote:

sweetgirlserves
No, actually, their secretaries do.

~sgs:
What can I say when you have already said it all? Take good care of you!

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RE: Masterful Leadership Qualified or not? - 7/25/2010 2:37:11 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar



A] What qualities constitute masterful leadership?


The ability to influence the person/s he/she is leading.

quote:

B] Are masterful leadership qualities gender specific?


Not necessarily, no.

quote:

C] How are masterful leadership qualities defined and demonstrated among those who identify as a master within the confines of BDSM?


It seems to be a very individual thing. In my view, most 'masters' within the confines of bdsm aren't masters at much of anything. Not even sure they should be or need to be. All you need to be a "bdsm" master is to find someone who sees you as such, and is willing to respond to you as such. It doesn't mean the "master" is really "masterful" at all, nor does it demonstrate masterful leadership.

The last two are hard to answer, because I'm not fully wrapping around the question.


I agree that influence is a contributing factor when considering what qualities constitute masterful leadership. I also believe that a proven ability to inspire those you lead is essential to motivate them in giving their utmost excellence. Further integrity that lacks genuine substance to build trust is worthless regardless if one has a daily defined system that is believed to create a constitution that supports masterful leadership.

Moreover, I believe that each individual that claims to be capable of mastering, be it masterful leadership or not, are solely responsible to form their character that is reflective of their own personal constitution of masterful leadership qualities. I do not believe that demonstrating masterful leadership abilities is subjective. Not when it is measured by a definition that is uniform in all instances. Nor do I believe that there is what could be deemed as a uniform definition that constitutes a collectively agreed upon meaning of masterful leadership when applied to BDSM.

However, I do know in the corporate global world there is such. If there is any deviation from performing to the highest ability when it is related to masterful leadership you will be given a “gold boot” at the end of your day. No explanations allowed!

In the nutshell to become masterful there has to be a self decided reason to aim for this goal. Much like in leadership there are no real easy short cuts. Nor should there be. How does anyone become masterful without climbing up hill toward a height yet to be mastered? Why would anyone follow someone who claims to be masterful in their leadership abilities either in their personal life or business world if there has not been a proven track record that proves such?

When it comes to BDSM and the application of being a master within a relationship it is subjective to a degree. However if there are no reliable standards that work toward a clear definition of being masterful when leading then of course the outcome reflects the internal confusion. Thus all one can do is learn from the mistakes and aim to improve all errors with the goal of mastering the internal to reflect increased accuracy when it is related to what qualifies masterful leadership.

Thank you for your contribution. I appreciate your ability to be grounded in reality in a honest manner. It lends to a sort of satisfaction for myself in that being honest and grounded in reality prevents the fantasy aspect to overtake the ability to maintain critical thinking. Much appreciated, indeed.

Take care!

< Message edited by Zevar -- 7/25/2010 2:46:56 PM >

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