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RE: Slave registry - 12/16/2006 11:05:59 PM

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Rover - I'd be surprised if someone gave you the info on a real slave auction/barter/exchange on a site like this. That's peddling human beings which is, granted a widespread practice around the world, "illegal" for those of us in the industralized nations.

That info is available in certain forums, much like those that are actively looking for breeders, but not on a site like this. And don't ask me -- I don't know nor do I care to.

_____________________________

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.. Wow! What a Ride!"

~velvet vise~

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 4:21:54 AM

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From: Santiago, Chile
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Hey, if a SRN is in furtherance of someone's objectification and/or negotiation, more power to em (i.e. as randsboy suggested.) Definitely not my cup o' joe, though.

Sure, I'm sure there are semi-secret elitist slave swapping groups. I'm also sure there are spin off Davidian cult members still out there, but neither group has anything to do with the mainstream, healthy, normal BDSM community.

The SRN site is just harmless fun, I think. It only means what the couple involved want it to mean, from a birthday gag to twue cyber wuv.

_____________________________

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to VelvetVise13)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 5:15:13 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VelvetVise13

Rover - I'd be surprised if someone gave you the info on a real slave auction/barter/exchange on a site like this. That's peddling human beings which is, granted a widespread practice around the world, "illegal" for those of us in the industralized nations.

That info is available in certain forums, much like those that are actively looking for breeders, but not on a site like this. And don't ask me -- I don't know nor do I care to.

You see, much like the Loch Ness monster, Sasquatch or little green aliens from space, these tall tales about slave auctions never, ever (not even once) have a shred of evidence attached to them. The burder of proof is upon the teller to provide evidence that they exist, as nothing can be proved in the negative (ie: proved not to exist).

I get around quite a bit, and in all my travels I have never come across anyone who has any first hand knowledge of a slave auction (a genuine auction, not a charity event, etc.). No one who witnessed one, bought someone in one, was sold in one, etc. The only place I ever hear them mentioned is online, and only by those repeating a legend or myth devoid of evidence or personal experience.

Such things make for great erotic fiction, but have no basis for being taken seriously.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to VelvetVise13)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 8:51:22 AM

LordIncantatore

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Well John, I would like to agree with you in that these "auctions" do not exsist at all as I find them repulsive and disgusting. Myself and the "majority" of people that I discuss this lifestyle with agree that the single biggest concept that BDSM is based on is trust. How can anyone trust a complete stranger that bought them, simply put they cannot. As to the exsistance of slavery, it is a real world problem and we should all do our best to put an end to it as from the mainsteam point of view they cannot always distinguish between "them" and those of us that live the BDSM lifestyle so in short they make us all look bad.

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 10:11:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

You see, much like the Loch Ness monster, Sasquatch or little green aliens from space, these tall tales about slave auctions never, ever (not even once) have a shred of evidence attached to them.
Such things make for great erotic fiction, but have no basis for being taken seriously.

John

I wouldn't put slave auctions in the same category as Nessie, Sasquatch or aliens. I'm not vain enough to think that in this entire, massive universe we live in, that we could be the only life form around. Further, the Earth is only 30% land yet new discoveries are being made continually regarding flora & fauna. As for the 70% that is water, just a few months ago a large "creature" washed ashore in the South Pacific that did not fit into any known species already identified. The photos were all over the news - it looked rather like a massive squid.

Back to the issue at hand, why would anyone just volunteer to answer a question like the one you have evidentally posed on your travels? And how can you be so certain that these auctions don't exist and are nothing more than erotica? The age old question is coming to mind: "Does life imitate art, or does art imitate life?" The slave trade is rampant, humans are being treated as mere commodities and this issue falls more into "non-consent/reluctance" rather than BDSM.

_____________________________

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.. Wow! What a Ride!"

~velvet vise~

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 10:43:58 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VelvetVise13

And how can you be so certain that these auctions don't exist and are nothing more than erotica?

Because the only people that believe in them are folks like yourself. Because no one has ever been to one or participated in one first hand. Because despite years of research by lifestyle historians, no one has ever found a shred of evidence that they exist anywhere other than as figments of the imagination. Because no "secret" can be so widely mentioned online, and still kept a secret.

I, and a great many others, are more than interested in seeing or hearing whatever factual evidence you may have. But if it's just more of the same drivel, save it for the gullible.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to VelvetVise13)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 2:33:20 PM

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I think she was referring to the slave trafficking that takes place in Central America, the Middle East, parts of Africa, parts of Asia, and major cities in the United States.

To be fair, I would say it's naive to suggest that people never engage in the sale of slaves (from a BDSM standpoint) just as it's naive to believe that... crap, the TOS say I can't finish this analogy. But I'm sure it happens, though likely only a handful a year. It's the practice of importing men and women to work in sweat shops or as prostitutes that actually occurs substantially in developed nations (such as the US, UK, etc) those these are unrelated to the BDSM community at large.

If there's anyone who still disputes that real slavery does exist in the developed world, I'd be happy to start citing sources.

_____________________________

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"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 2:47:50 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

I think she was referring to the slave trafficking that takes place in Central America, the Middle East, parts of Africa, parts of Asia, and major cities in the United States.

To be fair, I would say it's naive to suggest that people never engage in the sale of slaves (from a BDSM standpoint) just as it's naive to believe that... crap, the TOS say I can't finish this analogy. But I'm sure it happens, though likely only a handful a year. It's the practice of importing men and women to work in sweat shops or as prostitutes that actually occurs substantially in developed nations (such as the US, UK, etc) those these are unrelated to the BDSM community at large.

If there's anyone who still disputes that real slavery does exist in the developed world, I'd be happy to start citing sources.

No one, least of all myself, disputes the fact that real slavery exists in the world today. Nor that people traffic in humans for purposes of prostitution, endentured servitude, etc. However, much as you have stated yourself, this has nothing whatsoever to do with BDSM.

The only lifestyle slaves being bought and sold are in erotic fiction such as Laura Antoniou's "Marketplace" series.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Voltare)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 2:56:46 PM

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Does "real" slavery exist? Yes.

Do BDSM slave auctions exist? I don't know because I don't have any first hand experience.

What I do know is that there are 6+ billion people on the planet so to assume that NOTHING ever takes place might be assuming a bit.

_____________________________

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.. Wow! What a Ride!"

~velvet vise~

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 3:09:31 PM

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From: Santiago, Chile
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I'd have to agree. With over 300 million people living in the US, I find it hard to believe there aren't a dozen or so who don't 'sell' their slaves (or swap them, barter them, trade them for a run down Skylark, etc.) But quite right, it's no more community BDSM lifestyle related than the annual tummy button lint competition. ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2001/10/08/video_week_40_article.shtml - I thought one would actually exist, but this is the closest I could find on google.)

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to VelvetVise13)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 3:53:44 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VelvetVise13

Does "real" slavery exist? Yes.

Do BDSM slave auctions exist? I don't know because I don't have any first hand experience.

What I do know is that there are 6+ billion people on the planet so to assume that NOTHING ever takes place might be assuming a bit.

There exists a crucial distinction between the two. In the first case, "real slavery", we have an evidentiary basis for the belief of their existence. We have historical accounts, investigations, prosecutions and convictions. It appears on the evening news, in newspaper and magazine articles, and on television investigative reports.

In the second case, "BDSM slavery", we have more evidence for the existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Ask any four year old, they'll tell you.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to VelvetVise13)

RE: Slave registry - 12/17/2006 9:07:57 PM

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In the second case, "BDSM slavery", we have more evidence for the existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Ask any four year old, they'll tell you.

What, pray tell, would a 4 year old know about BDSM?

Or, rather than mature intellectual discourse, are you simply needing the last word -- which appears a bit condescending via text.

_____________________________

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.. Wow! What a Ride!"

~velvet vise~

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Slave registry - 12/18/2006 3:24:36 AM

Rover

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Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VelvetVise13

In the second case, "BDSM slavery", we have more evidence for the existence of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Ask any four year old, they'll tell you.

What, pray tell, would a 4 year old know about BDSM?

Or, rather than mature intellectual discourse, are you simply needing the last word -- which appears a bit condescending via text.

You misread my statement. There are more four year olds that will testify to the existence of the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus than there are gullible lifestylers who will testify to the existence of "BDSM slave auctions" here in the US.

And both four year olds and gullible lifestylers have the same amount of factual evidence... none, nada, zilch.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to VelvetVise13)

RE: Slave registry - 12/18/2006 5:26:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

You misread my statement. There are more four year olds that will testify to the existence of the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus than there are gullible lifestylers who will testify to the existence of "BDSM slave auctions" here in the US.

And both four year olds and gullible lifestylers have the same amount of factual evidence... none, nada, zilch.

John

Alas, here I find myself trying to make logic of an illogical debate.

Did I indeed misread or are you simply grasping with your circular logic?

You've made it quite clear that in a world 6+ billion people, it is impossible for authentic slave auctions to be held. You seemed to justify that reasoning solely upon the fact that, you ask, and no one will admit to them. Further, in previous posts you have not specified that the auctions must be U.S. only - you have simply questioned, do they exist?

So at this juncture, it does appear you are not so much interested in intellectual discourse as you are in getting the last word. Perhaps, with a moderate attitude adjustment, you might seek that info you seem to be so interested in finding.

_____________________________

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.. Wow! What a Ride!"

~velvet vise~

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Slave registry - 12/18/2006 7:00:46 AM

LordODiscipline

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Just for a minor update in the latest in "logical discourse" from about 271 BC-

No one can "prove a negative"...

So, for you to expect anyone to 'prove' that there are "not BDSM Slave Auctions held in the US" would be the equivalent of asking someone to "prove that there is no evidence existing anywhere at any time".

It is easier (if they did exist - which is entirely improbable based on this very lack of evidence) to prove that they "do exist".

Let's face it - in todays day and age, a thing of this nature would be completely sensational... and, would cause a reporter, a police officer, elected officials (and, remember the divisiveness of politics as a causal issue for such a revelation) to have a "career made"...

There would have to be a logistics network to support the events...

So conspiracy theorys are really silly for something of this nature

To hide such a thing for any amount of time (beyond the fun we all have at events where it is played at) would be mountingly impossible over time - and, there would be a trail to lead to any event that was held by these people and/or rumours to sustain it as being held at "X" by the people known as "X".

So - the thing to do is to prove that they do exist - as the evidence is entirely pointing toward this being 'bull'.

You desire intelligent discourse - please provide the real proof (rather than a subjective "I am going to hold my breath if you do not admit the tooth fairy exists) so we might continue.

~J

quote:

ORIGINAL: VelvetVise13

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

You misread my statement. There are more four year olds that will testify to the existence of the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus than there are gullible lifestylers who will testify to the existence of "BDSM slave auctions" here in the US.

And both four year olds and gullible lifestylers have the same amount of factual evidence... none, nada, zilch.

John

Alas, here I find myself trying to make logic of an illogical debate.

Did I indeed misread or are you simply grasping with your circular logic?

You've made it quite clear that in a world 6+ billion people, it is impossible for authentic slave auctions to be held. You seemed to justify that reasoning solely upon the fact that, you ask, and no one will admit to them. Further, in previous posts you have not specified that the auctions must be U.S. only - you have simply questioned, do they exist?

So at this juncture, it does appear you are not so much interested in intellectual discourse as you are in getting the last word. Perhaps, with a moderate attitude adjustment, you might seek that info you seem to be so interested in finding.

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to VelvetVise13)

RE: Slave registry - 12/18/2006 7:49:04 AM

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{fast reply}

The only real time experience I have to comment on as far as "slave auctions" were at parties where we were collecting donations for a charity.

At events such as this we would bid on a sub/slave who also revealed to us their limited contract agreement. This could be something as simple & innocent as house cleaning for 1 day or as naughty as the person wanted to go.

I have also known of more than one person who belonged to a "house" & they were bought by a petitioning dom/master. The two people I knew personally had lived with their "family" for a period of time, trained under this house, worked/contributed/etc to the house. Often their were expenses that the family incurred while the sub/slave resided with them. These expenses were kept track of & at the time this sub/slave would enter into a contract with the petitioning dom/master, he/she would clear the debt along with any other charges assessed. Money &/or bartering took place in both of the sales I knew about first hand. As to what was the exact payment... I dunno, none of my business.

The key word here was that this was all consented to by those involved. These sub/slaves entered these "houses" (be it lived there full time or not) on their own & agreed to the conditions & all that was involved. The doms/masters who petitioned these subs/slaves consented to the terms & conditions set forth by the "house" as to what was required for them to enter into a petition for ownership.

Of the two relationships I personal knew that formed by this method... they are still together & quite happy.

_____________________________

MstrssPassion

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

RE: Slave registry - 12/18/2006 8:33:54 AM

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First, i'd like to say that i am a frequent visitor to TSR (the slave registry) site. IMO It's a really good site and can be filled with some great information. i also love the Internal Enslavement site. Only problem with TSR boards is that they aren't as active as CM.

That being said. i initially signed up there because i heard of the barcode/registration thing. i thought it was a great idea and was excited to see my little certificate with the barcode on it. Then it hit me, in a fairly short period of time, that the number itself really had no validity, for me anyway. i realized that it was a great and fun way to number profiles, but was not given to me by my Master/Daddy, so for me it really is nothing more than a cute way to number my profile and a way for me to announce that i am owned.

i wonder if it' would've beeen any different if i'd been an unowned slave at the time of registration. The other thing i thought was odd about the number is that the slave retains ownership of the number and if a relationship fails then the slave still owns the number. This was one of the things that made me feel that it wasn't really anything that would hold anything special in my personal relationship.

This all being said, if it makes others feel great to have their number tattooed more power to them, it is after all a personal choice (between an M/s D/s or a single "s") and a personal thing as to how it makes them feel inside of them.
For myself, i see a brand in the future, of my Master/Daddy's chosing, something that will mean something special for us.

Edited to add: This wasn't in response to MstrssPassion, i hit the wrong button, it's more a response to the board at large.
Also, i am Jewish and don't truly see a correlation between this form of numbering, tattooing and the atrocities of the death camps.

< Message edited by charismagirrl -- 12/18/2006 8:41:22 AM >

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For today i won't say but...
For today i wont say just...
For today i will simply obey....
For today i will trust that You are right...
For always i will be your imperfect slave

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(in reply to MstrssPassion)

RE: Slave registry - 12/18/2006 9:18:41 AM

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From: Santiago, Chile
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Not that it's of any real importance, but after a few hours of surfing and hundreds of google, cnn, and bbc links, I couldn't find a single reference to an illegal BDSM related slave auction in the US, UK, Australia Western Europe, or any other country. The closest I could find were child sex auctions being held in Eastern Europe, the importation of illegal sex workers from Asia, Europe, etc, global sex trafficking information, and child/forced labor data.

Needless to say that doesn't deny that it's possible. I'm certain that of the literally dozens of millions of slaves being bought, sold, captured, tortured, etc, that some of them were done by people involved in the BDSM or S&M community (as the famous 'Slavemaster' illustrates.) It would also seem difficult to believe that there are no sex trafficking networks that use the net as a means to communicate, buy, sell, etc, though this would seem to be outside the scope of the current debate.

Basically, 'It never happens' isn't a wise phrase to make use of here, and that's really what stirs such a fuss. After the past few hours of browsing, I am convinced that people are capable of the most bizzare, twisted, and evil acts that would make a cold blooded serial killer squirm with discomfort.

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to charismagirrl)

RE: Slave registry - 12/18/2006 9:27:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

Basically, 'It never happens' isn't a wise phrase to make use of here, and that's really what stirs such a fuss. After the past few hours of browsing, I am convinced that people are capable of the most bizzare, twisted, and evil acts that would make a cold blooded serial killer squirm with discomfort.

Excellent commentary Voltare.

_____________________________

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.. Wow! What a Ride!"

~velvet vise~

(in reply to Voltare)

RE: Slave registry - 12/18/2006 9:37:05 AM

Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline

Thanks! I've been kicking the idea around of doing a political commentary webcast, but I figured I had to get over my shyness first. Oh, and the finding an audience thingy.

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to VelvetVise13)

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