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samboct -> RE: --- (8/16/2010 8:24:25 AM)
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VC
"OP, saying 'read your posts again' is not an argument"
You're right-it's not an argument. Its a suggestion- and one which is well meant.
I'm interested in learning. Learning is a process which requires the unceasing destruction of falsehoods- its how knowledge is generated. While it's possible to learn from an individual who has ceased to add knowledge to their brain by drawing on what's present, it's more fun to learn from people who share my goal of continued learning. If someone can't admit to making a mistake- they can't learn. My suggestion to both you and Lady H to review your posts was intended to see if you have the capacity to be self critical. If someone misinterprets one of my posts, I don't blame them initially, I look at the post to see if a different reading can be supported. If it can, which is often the case, then a simple apology and clarification is in order- not castigating the person for being an idiot. Reading a post is a two way street- if nobody reads a post- why bother? The author has a responsibility to the reader, and from my perspective- both you and LadyH are shirking this responsibility. So even if my interpretation of your implications was in error, your obstinate refusal to see how an error could have been made is troubling. It shows a lack of empathy with the other person.
You've taken a lot of time and trouble to derail this thread to focus on the idea that dates shouldn't be dissected in public. Well, I've reflected a bit on your request, and here's what I come up with.
First, moving to Fetlife doesn't solve the problem of dissecting a date in a public forum. There's no way one could be sure that the other person didn't read it. So if dissecting a date is going to happen, the geography is irrelevant.
Second, clearly a number of other folks here don't agree with your premise that dissecting a date is bad form, even after reading your comments. You asked how I would feel if someone dissected one of my dates in this fashion-and after some thought- my response is: concerned. But not for me- for the other person.
Let's say that one of the people I went out on a single date with was puzzled as to why there wasn't a second and posted that query here, following a similar set of rules as I did, so that identities were not compromised. (Compromising identity changes this to a potentially malicious action- I think we can all agree on that one.) I'd be concerned over two points:
1) Did I not make my intentions clear? As has been noted earlier, I don't read people well. Hence, like many profiles request- I don't play games (and on a topic for another thread- how many of these people really are interested in playing games?- Seems to be something of a warning sign.) and I do my best to make my intentions plain. Note to Akasha- I think your advice about not revealing too much on a first date is good advice, but I don't do coy well. If somebody asks me a question, I do my best to answer it if I can not be hurtful. If for whatever reason, the "chemistry" between my date and me is not there, then a polite note afterward should leave everyone's self esteem intact. So, since I try to keep my thoughts about this person available, I would wonder about the need to post a query about my intentions. I'd also wonder if I did something to mislead this individual.
2) Is this person suffering from some potential illness or anguish that makes them unable to process information well. Mental health is in a parlous state in this country, and all too often, the stigma attached prevents people from seeking treatment for readily treated ailments. I know a bit about this problem. Hence, I would extend the offer to help find assistance, if I could do so in a non-hurtful manner.
So if I saw a date of mine dissected in this fashion, I'd wonder what was up- but I certainly wouldn't feel embarrassed or ashamed. My hunch is that most people reading this thread- if they thought about, wouldn't be ashamed either.
But VC- since you've acknowledged that you'd be worried about having one of your dates dissected- well that certainly leads to the question- why? When I, and I think most people, go out on a date, it's to explore either long term or short term romantic possibilities. (In my case, since I don't do short term well or often, it's generally long term, but I am open minded.) That's the assumed agenda for most people going on a date, and I don't see any cause for embarrassment or unease if the date is analyzed and those motives revealed. However, if you go out on a date with a different set of motives- on a dare, to take advantage of a free meal, to toy with the other persons emotions (I leave my S+M in the bedroom, it's not in the restaurant), well, then I could see why having one of your dates dissected might make you feel ill at ease. If a date doesn't go well because you had something green stuck in your teeth say, well, that's one of life's little jokes that most of us afterwards could share a laugh about. Again, no great cause for concern. So what are you doing on a date that you don't want dissected?
Circling back to the clique issue...
Cliques are formed by a corruption of friendship for power purposes. Your comment that I should become friends with you and your crowd before asking a question made several times previously is an indication of trying to control people through "friendship". (I have a lot of good friends- its one of the accomplishments I'm proud of in my life.) I don't think I should need to, nor should anyone else who's a member of this site. Who are you to dictate what questions can and can't be asked?
Let me throw out an analogy that should illustrate the point. Let's say that an alumnus from your alma mater comes to you and asks for your help in finding a job. Well, your response would be- gee- if I didn't take any classes with you and I don't know who you are- I don't want to help you. My response is, well, we clearly have at least the school we went to in common, let's take it from there and see if I can get to know you to make some recommendations. In short, anybody who's a member of this site has earned the right to ask a question of you- even if they haven't jumped through your hoops. And setting up hoops for people to jump through before talking to them is one of the signs of cliquish behavior- you're not one of us, so I don't have to talk to you.
Much of what you've posted here is under the guise of protecting the other person on the date I described- per this comment here:
"I can ignore the fact that you're posting about a woman without her knowledge on a site she is active on? No, thanks."
Well, let's look at this a bit. Do you know who she is? How do you protect an individual without knowing her identity? Did she ask for your protection? Did you ask her first if she even wanted it? Seems to me that you're making a whole lot of assumptions about this other person without knowing who she is or what she wants- and that's a control issue. In short- its her problem, not yours. And you can't solve somebody else's problem unless they ask you to. You trying to be noble here- doesn't fly. You're using someone else's supposed misfortune for your own ends- rather manipulative in my book.
In summary- I'd urge you and anyone in your posse to reflect on this thread- how a reasonable individual asked what he thought was a reasonable question, and was forced to defend his actions. If your goal is to make this site a welcome place for like minded individuals, well, you're failing miserably. If your goal is to defend your turf for your clique- you've succeeded admirably.
Cheers,
Sam
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