RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/22/2010 6:09:14 PM

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I don't care about the people speaking out it's offensive or those speaking out against Islam for that matter, I support their first amendment rights to do so, personally I'm anti-Islam.

What worries me are the people actively attempting to use the legal system to circumvent the first amendment and those saying that the government should step in and do just that.

Subrob, just because they haven't succeeded so far doesn't mean it's something we should ignore, that's why I'm speaking up on this issue.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/22/2010 6:13:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

And if there's already a Mosque in the neighborhood, why build another?

Why not?

Well, they aren't building a mosque, Robbieboy. They're building a Prayer Center.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/22/2010 7:29:58 PM

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Hippiekinkster, after reading some of the posts in this topic and others, I am beginning to believe that there are a few posters on these boards that would like to see Muslims rounded up and put in camps.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/23/2010 5:13:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Again, who's saying they can't build there?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
The conservative advocacy group that sued them to stop them from building.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Other than 50 year old Spinster sisters in Oklahoma, does anyone even listen to Pat Robertson?

"No true Scotsman is an intentional logical fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of assertion to tautologically exclude the specific case or others like it." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/23/2010 7:55:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Well, they aren't building a mosque, Robbieboy. They're building a Prayer Center.

Whats the difference? Even the website for Project 51 calls it a Mosque.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/23/2010 8:35:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Well, they aren't building a mosque, Robbieboy. They're building a Prayer Center.

Whats the difference? Even the website for Project 51 calls it a Mosque.

The difference is that libs have to play semantic games to support positions that would be untenable if they spoke directly.

(in reply to subrob1967)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/23/2010 9:00:33 AM

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From: NOVA
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I don't mind the mosque/community center. As an American, I think it's important that we remember that our first Amendment right is protected, no matter our agreement with freedom of religion or not. If the KKK or a Devil Worshiping cult or a skyclad group of Wiccans wants to build a temple/gathering place, so be it. With that being said, I do think it's kind of a hypocritical thing to hear all of the time that we must be tolerant of others' feelings, but when this hurts Americans, we are told to grow up and act like adults and not let our feelings get in the way. Whatever. That's even forgivable. I do find the Cordoba House project to be extremely insensitive, but it's their right to practice freely.

I also find it frustrating as all hell that our tax payer dollars are going to fund this Imam's trip to the Middle East. Maybe during a time of economic growth, that would be a great idea. But now? When our economy is down the shitter, we're funding this guys trip to the Middle East to speak about how great America is? That's pretty messed up in my opinion. If he could fund it himself, awesome. But from what I understand, we're basically paying for it...when people are out of jobs, we're WASTING money that could go to more important things? That, to me, is also insensitive. I think that's the bigger issue here, and not the mosque itself.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/23/2010 9:41:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Well, they aren't building a mosque, Robbieboy. They're building a Prayer Center.

Whats the difference? Even the website for Project 51 calls it a Mosque.

I will begin by rehashing a pissing contest I began in a different thread,with, the following oath I took on 22 December 1976:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Now I will post the first amendment of that constitution I swore to support and defend:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now when I took the oath I was entering into the US Air Force "delayed enlistment" program, I went on active duty on 4 May 1977, finished basic training on 16 June that year, and served until 11 April 1983. I do not think I took that oath for shits and giggles. I still value that oath and I will still support and defend that constitution, to my death if I have to.

The religiously intolerant, the bigoted, and several other groups are rapidly approaching the status of "domestic enemies" of the constitution. It is a situation I do not take lightly.

As to the mosque and the fact there is one 4 blocks away, what if the plan is to close that mosque? Did anyone stop for one second to ponder that possibility, NO, nearly every one screeched "GROUND ZERO", in conjunction with the words "Hallowed", and "Sacred" which is pretty much bullshit, it is a fucking commercial district. and it is about to change to "blighted" status, if something is not done to bring new life and businesses to the area.

The mayor of NYC and the city council, have already cleared this, but it isn't the people of Manhattan that are crying, it is the ASSHOLES from every where else. What does that say to you??

Constitutionally,
Some Knucklehead in NJ

< Message edited by pogo4pres -- 8/23/2010 9:44:08 AM >

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/23/2010 4:55:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Well, they aren't building a mosque, Robbieboy. They're building a Prayer Center.

Whats the difference? Even the website for Project 51 calls it a Mosque.

Whats in a name ? What does it matter if the reason for this building is cultural ? It certainly isnt a victory Mosque as claimed by some of you.

(in reply to subrob1967)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/23/2010 5:31:19 PM

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I demand that no christian churches be built anywhere if another christian church, of any denomination, is less than a mile away.

See how ridiculous the demand is now? We allow churches to be close together. What if the nearby mosque is sunni? Do you think the sufi Imam and his congregation will be welcome?

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/23/2010 6:04:21 PM

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"It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty."

- RON PAUL

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 4:05:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Whats in a name ? What does it matter if the reason for this building is cultural ? It certainly isnt a victory Mosque as claimed by some of you.

That is a matter of perception. Just because you don't think it's a victory Mosque, doesn't mean your opinion is the right one.

(in reply to Politesub53)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 11:10:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Whats in a name ? What does it matter if the reason for this building is cultural ? It certainly isnt a victory Mosque as claimed by some of you.

That is a matter of perception. Just because you don't think it's a victory Mosque, doesn't mean your opinion is the right one.

Victory mosuqes are built on teh exact site where a major battle occured. What major battle occured on that site? What was the name of the sufi general this sufi mosque would venerate? When precisely did the sufi's start building victory mosques anyway?

(in reply to subrob1967)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 11:34:09 AM

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quote:

But from what I understand, we're basically paying for it...when people are out of jobs, we're WASTING money that could go to more important things? That, to me, is also insensitive. I think that's the bigger issue here, and not the mosque itself.

I was under the impression that one building was bought by SoHo, the other was under option to buy, and now they are appraising it for purchase by another group. Other than that, i can find no other mention beyond these two accounts where they are listing the money raised for building this center. Im curious as to where you have found the sources for funding.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 12:14:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

But from what I understand, we're basically paying for it...when people are out of jobs, we're WASTING money that could go to more important things? That, to me, is also insensitive. I think that's the bigger issue here, and not the mosque itself.

I was under the impression that one building was bought by SoHo, the other was under option to buy, and now they are appraising it for purchase by another group. Other than that, i can find no other mention beyond these two accounts where they are listing the money raised for building this center. Im curious as to where you have found the sources for funding.

We, as tax payers, are not paying for the mosque itself, but we are paying for the Imam to travel to the Middle East to share with these other countries how wonderful America is. I think it a fruitful economic time this might be a great idea, but right now? I don't see the wisdom in it.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 12:19:21 PM

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Suddenly this has become an issue even though he has been taking these trips, and we have been paying for them, since 2007?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to AsmodaisSin)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 12:25:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Suddenly this has become an issue even though he has been taking these trips, and we have been paying for them, since 2007?

It seems rather coincidental that he's going on this trip now?

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Something so symbolic seeps from silence.

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 12:36:57 PM

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Rauf's tour has drawn attention because of his plans to build an Islamic center in lower Manhattan near ground zero. Foes of the project say it is insensitive and disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families. The debate has become politicized ahead of November's midterm congressional elections.

Crowley said this will be Rauf's fourth U.S.-government sponsored trip under a program run by the State Department's Bureau of International Information Programs. Earlier, the State Department had said it was his third trip.

Crowley said Rauf had traveled twice to the Middle East in 2007 during the Bush administration and once earlier this year.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100818/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_ground_zero_mosque_imam

As far as the fear that he will be there fund raising...

Rauf starts his tour Thursday in Bahrain and ends it in the United Arab Emirates Sept. 2. At each stop he is expected to discuss Muslim life in America and promote religious tolerance. He will not be allowed to raise funds for the mosque on the trip, Crowley said.

"We have had conversations with the imam to make sure he understands that during these kinds of trips, he's not to engage in any personal business," Crowley told reporters. "He understands that completely."

"We value his participation as a religious figure here in the United States who can help people overseas understand the role that religion plays in our society," he said.

Same source

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to AsmodaisSin)

RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 2:14:45 PM

hertz

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From the UK news...

'Things seem awfully heated in America right now; so heated you could probably toast a marshmallow by jabbing it on a stick and holding it toward the Atlantic. Millions are hopping mad over the news that a bunch of triumphalist Muslim extremists are about to build a "victory mosque" slap bang in the middle of Ground Zero.
The planned "ultra-mosque" will be a staggering 5,600ft tall – more than five times higher than the tallest building on Earth – and will be capped with an immense dome of highly-polished solid gold, carefully positioned to bounce sunlight directly toward the pavement, where it will blind pedestrians and fry small dogs. The main structure will be delimited by 600 minarets, each shaped like an upraised middle finger, and housing a powerful amplifier: when synchronised, their combined sonic might will be capable of relaying the muezzin's call to prayer at such deafening volume, it will be clearly audible in the Afghan mountains, where thousands of terrorists are poised to celebrate by running around with scarves over their faces, firing AK-47s into the sky and yelling whatever the foreign word for "victory" is.'http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque

More or less exactly as Fox News reported it, I think you'll find...

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RE: Obama Makes Clear His Support for Mosque in near 9/11 - 8/24/2010 4:52:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

From the UK news...

'Things seem awfully heated in America right now; so heated you could probably toast a marshmallow by jabbing it on a stick and holding it toward the Atlantic. Millions are hopping mad over the news that a bunch of triumphalist Muslim extremists are about to build a "victory mosque" slap bang in the middle of Ground Zero.
The planned "ultra-mosque" will be a staggering 5,600ft tall – more than five times higher than the tallest building on Earth – and will be capped with an immense dome of highly-polished solid gold, carefully positioned to bounce sunlight directly toward the pavement, where it will blind pedestrians and fry small dogs. The main structure will be delimited by 600 minarets, each shaped like an upraised middle finger, and housing a powerful amplifier: when synchronised, their combined sonic might will be capable of relaying the muezzin's call to prayer at such deafening volume, it will be clearly audible in the Afghan mountains, where thousands of terrorists are poised to celebrate by running around with scarves over their faces, firing AK-47s into the sky and yelling whatever the foreign word for "victory" is.'http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque

More or less exactly as Fox News reported it, I think you'll find...

See now thats funny

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