How do male submissives differ from "cubs" (from the Cougar-cub mix)

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How do male submissives differ from "cubs" (f... - 8/22/2010 7:45:59 PM

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On "Cougarlife," the site defines "cubs" as:

"To snare a true Cougar a man needs to be youthful, fit, unintimidated and of course sexually driven! These men can range from athletes to intellectuals, and from technologists to entrepreneurs and all points in between; they can come in all shapes and sizes, but one thing they have in common is the desire to possess a sexually charged older woman."

I'm curious if femdoms consider this definition of a man to be attractive, and how it might overlap or not with what a woman defines as "submissive." If you remove the age particulars out of it, and consider it instead that a woman is looking to be the one in control in a relationship, are there many similarities between what a "cougar" seeks in a "cub" and what a "femdom" seeks in a "male sub"?
Akasha

< Message edited by AAkasha -- 8/22/2010 7:46:19 PM >

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/22/2010 10:41:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

On "Cougarlife," the site defines "cubs" as:

"To snare a true Cougar a man needs to be youthful, fit, unintimidated and of course sexually driven! These men can range from athletes to intellectuals, and from technologists to entrepreneurs and all points in between; they can come in all shapes and sizes, but one thing they have in common is the desire to possess a sexually charged older woman."

I'm curious if femdoms consider this definition of a man to be attractive, and how it might overlap or not with what a woman defines as "submissive." If you remove the age particulars out of it, and consider it instead that a woman is looking to be the one in control in a relationship, are there many similarities between what a "cougar" seeks in a "cub" and what a "femdom" seeks in a "male sub"?
Akasha

33 years ago I was a 19 year old boy trying to pursue a 33 year old co-worker of my mom's. Now I am a 52 year old man and identify as submissive. Some where in the interim life happened and I have gotten old.

Anciently,
Some Knucklehead in NJ

< Message edited by pogo4pres -- 8/22/2010 10:42:18 PM >

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 4:20:40 AM

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" . . . one thing they have in common is the desire to possess a sexually charged older woman"

I think many submales would wince a bit at the word 'possess' . . . . But, I'll ponder on that some more . . . .

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 4:33:11 AM

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The process (guidance/influence) might be similiar, but the motivations and end goals are different. In one case you are nurturing a submissive man and in the other a sweet non-submissive man who will treat you right and make "sweet love" to you.

<- Not a sub or female Domme.

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 7:58:50 AM

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quote:

Tree Style [Subscribe] Subscribe

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

" . . . one thing they have in common is the desire to possess a sexually charged older woman"

I think many submales would wince a bit at the word 'possess' . . . . But, I'll ponder on that some more . . . .

That's more marketing and positioning on the site; they should have went with a safer word like "engage" or "interest." But I am talking more about the qualities of the man in what they describe.

Akasha

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 8:38:20 AM

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In order to possess this old bat, they need to have a highly charged mind... and sophistication and experience... so...

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 8:53:49 AM

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When I got out of the service I was 21, going to college and I was pursued by a woman who was 32 going to college. She was in charge of the relationship. I guess you could say it was a female led relationship. She decided what we would do, when we would do it, etc. In public we looked like a normal couple, she did not look her age. And no one would have guessed she was in charge.
I think that may have led to my submissive nature with women. We were together for about 2 years, until she found another "cub" to pursue. I have no regrets...I learned alot and had lots of fun.

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 9:10:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

In order to possess this old bat, they need to have a highly charged mind... and sophistication and experience... so...

I think now that I stare at it more, the word that sticks out to me is that they say the "cub" must be "unintimidated." I think that's an interesting word; I think that submissive men often pursue femdoms in a manner that may come across as "intimidated" when they shouldn't be - at least not at the start. To me, unintimidated means the cub still has to earn the attention and court the "cougar," not just sit back and wait for it to happen. It shows proactive courting on his part.

That seems to be a bit different than how many submissive men pursue women - sort of starting from a position of subservience? Not sure.

Akasha

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 10:36:34 AM

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Unintimidated!! Exactly the kind of man that I look for! I don't know how many times I have been told that my profile is intimidating. Criminy, if words on a page skeeer ya, what will you do with the real thing?

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 10:39:43 AM

rhpaw

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Now that i look at this in perspective i think they are on to something.

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 12:25:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
I think now that I stare at it more, the word that sticks out to me is that they say the "cub" must be "unintimidated." I think that's an interesting word; I think that submissive men often pursue femdoms in a manner that may come across as "intimidated" when they shouldn't be - at least not at the start. To me, unintimidated means the cub still has to earn the attention and court the "cougar," not just sit back and wait for it to happen. It shows proactive courting on his part.

I thought the whole point of being a 'cougar' was that such a woman acts like a hungry beast leaping on her prey. Runs off with him in her jaws, so to speak. The 'prey' isn't meant to be courting his predator, surely? But if it's really about cougar/cub - then the cougar just takes control of the cub. All the cub does is wander around nearby.

Admittedly I'm probably pushing the analogy a bit far here, though.

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 12:43:11 PM

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Mr. P,

quote:

Cougarlife site:
...one thing they have in common is the desire to possess a sexually charged older woman.

PeonForHer:
I think many submales would wince a bit at the word 'possess'...

Outing myself as always, this is one submissive who has no problem with the word possess in this context. :-)

Elan.

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 12:47:48 PM

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Akasha,

--- Akasha:
--- On "Cougarlife", the site defines "cubs" as...

Cougarlife?
There is such a site?
*goes to look it up*
Indeed there is.

The Internet truly has a site to cater to every need. As is frequently the case almost every day, I've just learned something new. :-)

E.

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 2:11:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

In order to possess this old bat, they need to have a highly charged mind... and sophistication and experience... so...

I think now that I stare at it more, the word that sticks out to me is that they say the "cub" must be "unintimidated." I think that's an interesting word; I think that submissive men often pursue femdoms in a manner that may come across as "intimidated" when they shouldn't be - at least not at the start. To me, unintimidated means the cub still has to earn the attention and court the "cougar," not just sit back and wait for it to happen. It shows proactive courting on his part.

That seems to be a bit different than how many submissive men pursue women - sort of starting from a position of subservience? Not sure.

I'm actually of the opinion that a dominant should be a little intimidating, perhaps even just slightly menacing. On the other hand, this isn't necessarily true of a "cougar" (kind of a silly term, since there isn't anything intrinsically predatory about merely liking younger partners).

You don't make any secret of the fact that you're drawn to vulnerability, so I'm a little surprised that you would view lack of intimidation as a totally positive thing. Isn't intimidation a form of emotional vulnerability, or at least very conducive to vulnerability? Of course, I can see how intimidation would become tiresome and off-putting if it paralysed a submissive man and prevented him from showing any interest at all, but what about submissives who feel intimidated but can muster enough courage to overcome their fears, approach the predator, and offer themselves up to her claws and teeth?

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 2:33:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake

You don't make any secret of the fact that you're drawn to vulnerability, so I'm a little surprised that you would view lack of intimidation as a totally positive thing. Isn't intimidation a form of emotional vulnerability, or at least very conducive to vulnerability? Of course, I can see how intimidation would become tiresome and off-putting if it paralysed a submissive man and prevented him from showing any interest at all, but what about submissives who feel intimidated but can muster enough courage to overcome their fears, approach the predator, and offer themselves up to her claws and teeth?

I like to intimidate. I like to seduce. I like to make men submit.

But I don't like men who are easily intimidated (or intimidated in a way that it is...hrm, too self indulgent? Like they posture as being intimidated yet have no reason to be - they don't KNOW me, they are intimidated by the fantasy of me, which is of their own making, if that makes sense; I like intimidation once there's evidence he has reason to be).

I don't like men who are "submissive" to the core, I like men who "submit to me." I see those as very different. But that doesn't mean I seek assholes or men who are "a challenge" (ie, they think that by being a bit of a jerk they present a challenge to a femdom). I like men that are strong, competent, capable, classy, eloquent -- but once I peel back a layer, yes, they are incredibly intimidated by what comes next.

I think vulnerability is incredibly sexy. I think incompetence is not. A man can be shy, nervous, uneasy but also be mature, capable and honest. It's splitting hair in some ways, and it's also my personal tastes and certainly not for everyone.

What intrigues me about what this site seems to suggest is that a man who is going to be in a position to be the one not in charge also must work to have the balls to put himself out there and be aggressive about that.

Akasha

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/23/2010 4:12:57 PM

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I think that there are definite similarities between the two, such as confidence and liking to seduce, but whereas cougars may seek a degree of 'control', to a femdom control and power are intrinsic elements of any relationship. In a relationship you may not have to submit to a cougar but it's a lot harder to not submit to a Domme. Of course as I am neither this is only speculation. Being someone who falls firmly into 'cougar bait' territory and having fallen prey to the odd cougar, I can say that they have always been the aggressor. As a submissive male how can I resist when a gorgeous older woman beckons me with a 'come hither' motion across the bar with her finger?

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/24/2010 3:06:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I like to intimidate. I like to seduce. I like to make men submit.

But I don't like men who are easily intimidated (or intimidated in a way that it is...hrm, too self indulgent? Like they posture as being intimidated yet have no reason to be - they don't KNOW me, they are intimidated by the fantasy of me, which is of their own making, if that makes sense; I like intimidation once there's evidence he has reason to be).

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I certainly agree that it's silly and artificial for submissives to "posture" as being more intimidated than they are, except maybe in a spirit of obvious playfulness. Of course, some people might say that once you've declared yourself to be dominant and sadistic, you've already given submissives a reason to be at least a little intimidated when they approach you.

However, I think (after looking at the Cougarlife website) that approaching a dominant woman and approaching a cougar involve different kinds of potential intimidation. I see that on Cougarlife, the definition of a cub is matched by a definition of a cougar that refers to "independent, sexy and wildly successful" women who "already possess many of the finer things in life". When you factor in the years of life experience that a cougar will have by definition, it adds up to a package that some younger men will find intimidating because a woman fitting that description is likely to be difficult to impress. The sense of intimidation revolves around the possibility of being rejected by someone who is "out of their league" because of her experience and material success.

Those same factors might come into play with a dominant woman, if she happens to be mature and successful. However, dominant women are also intimidating because, if you do manage to attract and hold their attention, you're likely to end up tied down, covered in welts, and gagging on a giant strap-on (or whatever). So quite apart from any possible intimidation because of the possibility of rejection, there's the very different type of intimidation that arises from giving power to someone who may use it to make you suffer. This presumably isn't an issue in your average vanilla cougar/cub relationship.

Do you find both kinds of intimidation equally off-putting? As a submissive, I've always experienced them very differently. Intimidation because of the fear of rejection is just annoying and unpleasant, and I've generally tried to swat the feeling aside and avoid paying too much attention to it. Intimidation because of the fear of suffering can be delicious, if there's a rational basis for it and if it's not accompanied by a sense of actual danger.

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/24/2010 3:50:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake
When you factor in the years of life experience that a cougar will have by definition, it adds up to a package that some younger men will find intimidating because a woman fitting that description is likely to be difficult to impress. The sense of intimidation revolves around the possibility of being rejected by someone who is "out of their league" because of her experience and material success.

We don't really have this "cougar" thing in the UK yet, as far as I know - though I'm sure we soon will have because popular culture here eagerly apes that of the USA as quickly as it can.

However, my sense of all this is that it doesn't have a great deal to do with the male - the 'cub' - being successful. Cubs aren't successful - it's not required of them. In the same way, no sexually-aggressive male cares a damn if the girl he sees at the bar is successful financially, in her education, her career, etc, etc. She'll need a bundle of other qualities, but not those - not the ones that the voracious man already has.

As for those aforementioned other qualities - I'd guess they'd be those that are the male equivalent of the consummate geisha. He'd know how prod and tickle her into bursting into a fire of lust, I'd guess. Heh. Vagina-tease, as opposed to prick-tease.

But that would only work with a woman who didn't have the personality of a plank of wood. I wouldn't have a clue what to do with one of those - but, then, I wouldn't care, either.

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/24/2010 3:52:55 PM

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So, Peon, how about a dirty weekend? http://www.collarchat.com/m_3374917/tm.htm

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RE: How do male submissives differ from "cubs"... - 8/24/2010 4:00:10 PM

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Hah!

Sometimes I think turning on a Domme would be like the karate of flirting. A dig here, a poke there - get her to laugh, but not too much; the occasional over-long stare at her eyes; drop your own eyes just at the right moment, licking your lips as you do so.

One day I'll leave the house and try it. ;-)

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