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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing?


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:21:08 AM   
FirmhandKY


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FR:

Gee ... I wonder who said this ...


"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

Firm


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:22:18 AM   
slvemike4u


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Firm,I have read the Document,and as such I know it was intended as a declaration putting forth the justification for Independence from the British Empire.Nothing more nothing less.Hell the tittle of the document proclaims exactly what it is....a Declaration of Independence of a heretofor subjucated peoples.
Now you can read into that anything you wish...bu to try to sell me that it purports to guarentee a "right to revolt" against a freely elected representative gov'mt is just so much bullshit.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:26:09 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Hell, all you have to do is look back at some of the things said during the Bush admin to see a lot worse.

Firm


Got a few examples of that? If memory serves, one of the Dixie Chicks was shouted down (and her band blacklisted) for merely apologising that the wanker came from Texas. I certainly don't remember seeing any armed militias fronted by brain dead actors threatening to secede from the union, ridiculous drivel about Bush not being an American citizen, astroturf campaigns run by a media company owned by Rupert Murdoch calling for his removal, or anything along those lines. I think he was hit with a pie once, and somebody threw a shoe at him, but that was about it.

Refresh my memory: what happened under Bush that was a lot worse than has been going on since early '09?

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:26:15 AM   
Icarys


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quote:

Now you can read into that anything you wish...bu to try to sell me that it purports to guarentee a "right to revolt" against a freely elected representative gov'mt is just so much bullshit.

I suppose the opposing country thought the very same thing.


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:29:59 AM   
Lucylastic


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 They are just pissed that nothing done in the past two years is even close tyranny, by anyones definition.




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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:42:04 AM   
cuckyman


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We learned how to stop the food...stop logistics...stop electricity...and bring chaos to the city dwelling left wing... its harder to make the trains run, than it is to stop the trains...so to speak. The cities need those trains and bridges to feed their people...we don't... Out here we know how to feed ourselves... we know the land...we know how to use fire arms... and the military will never fire upon the people... The left is dependant upon certain things working to keep their support intact, and we know how to disrupt all that... you are surronded and don't know it... starvation is our ally... and winter is coming on.... the cess pools of large northeastern cities is the nest for the left wingers and that will be where the focus will be.... cities are easy to bring to a stop.... and with no transportation available, no food, no electricity, no medical supplies...and no way to keep their support, the left will collapse.... simple when you undertand that vunerability.... and we understand it oh so well.... tick...tick...tick.... a new day comes.... The lefties underestimate the will of the people to be free....but they will learn the lessons taught to others in history... they will fall.... a new birth of freedom will ensue... just as Jefferson predicted it would....

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:44:42 AM   
Moonhead


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When did you learn that, pray tell? Have you been on one of those al queda jihadist training camps?

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(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:49:40 AM   
slvemike4u


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Thomas Jefferson said that Firm....Jefferson also cheered on the French revolution....even as the heads were falling into the wicker baskets...in addition he proclaimed that (and I paraphrase here) a little revolution every 20 years or so is a good thing...
All great men tend to make assinine statements now and then.He made more than his fair share.
The Declaration was just that...justification for a present action....and even there it went to great pains to point out that the people were driven to and forced into such a rash move by intolerable conditions.Are any of those justifications present today....have fair and open elections been suspended ? Are the peope subject to prosecution with out due process? Taxation without representation ?
The answer to all of those question,despite rightwing dogma is a resounding NO.....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:50:41 AM   
cuckyman


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If Obama wants to push it further... he will find out how wrong he is...and the left will pay a price they never imagined possible.... we are down to that fact.... if you think you rule... you are dumber than we think you are.... This is the end of the Obama Administration's power.... he willl be reduced to lame duck in less than two weeks.... guestion is how is the left going to take total rejection by the American people....its their move.... guestion is...do they think we won't revolt?... that is a CERTAINTY....

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:51:12 AM   
mnottertail


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Considering that Minnesota is where most of the grain companies are headed out oft (or where folks like Kellogs and Post and other  secondary players get their grain from) and that it is traded from MSP or Chicago as is most meat and other commodites (since we are central to it) as well as Minnesota providing a great deal of fresh water, against your orange juice, and I think your military planning for the neo-con conquest of the United States is several light years away from your constructing any Arc d'Triumphe there at your gator farm. 

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:52:55 AM   
Moonhead


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The comments about trains are cute as well: who the hell still uses trains for freight deliveries in the 'States apart from the nuclear power generators?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:56:55 AM   
Moonhead


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You are "Andrew MacDonald" and I claim my five pounds...

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 9:57:59 AM   
cuckyman


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Military History... and serving in Viet Nam... and listening to the stupidity of the arrogant left wing blathering their failed idiology since the 1960's... I am but one of millions out here FED TO FUCK UP with the democrat party and the left wing of this land... one side is going to prevail....and I am betting all on FREEDOM.... not a confiscatory, over reaching, bloated, and arrogant government unwilling to listen and serve the principals that this once great nation was founded upon.... Those that don't want economic and social freedom are going to either live here in freedom, or get the fuck out of here.... just that simple.... and that time is coming.... sooner than you ever imagined...

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 10:00:49 AM   
cuckyman


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Just as I thought... almost all vegetables...meats... raw materials come to cities by rail....trucking companies are all but out of business.... you might wish to wake up from your apparant coma.... The northeast will be brought to a standstill without rail transportation being operable...

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 10:03:47 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The comments about trains are cute as well: who the hell still uses trains for freight deliveries in the 'States apart from the nuclear power generators?

Quite a lot of train usage going on over here in the colonies.

We have a continent to service, and it's often the most economical method to move large amounts of commodities.

Firm


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 10:04:52 AM   
cuckyman


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WE are going to find out real soon what kind of wood makes shingles.... its a long way from Minnesota and Chicago to the northeast...lots of bridges and such to have to protect to keep those needed things coming in don't-cha think...and away from the big cities, the producers are not on your side....count on it....

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 10:09:27 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

Now you can read into that anything you wish...bu to try to sell me that it purports to guarentee a "right to revolt" against a freely elected representative gov'mt is just so much bullshit.

I suppose the opposing country thought the very same thing.

Are you implying that the opposing country was not,as far as thhe colonists were concerned,despotic in nature? Perhaps you are suggesting that they were actually,again as far as the colonists were concerned,actually a representative gov't ?
If so than the whole thing is based on a bed of lies....isn't it?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 10:11:23 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Firm,I have read the Document,and as such I know it was intended as a declaration putting forth the justification for Independence from the British Empire.Nothing more nothing less.Hell the tittle of the document proclaims exactly what it is....a Declaration of Independence of a heretofor subjucated peoples.
Now you can read into that anything you wish...bu to try to sell me that it purports to guarentee a "right to revolt" against a freely elected representative gov'mt is just so much bullshit.

The Declaration describes the rights of human beings in general terms, and then goes to the specific case of the colonies versus the British Empire.

It claims the rights as universal, and then applies them to a specific.

"Governments are instituted ..." (plural)

"That whenever any Form of Government ..."  Notice the "any".

"Governments long established should not be changed ..." (plural)

Read the paragraph I originally posted, and re-evaluate it a bit. Perhaps you may change your mind.

Firm


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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 10:15:11 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Where exactly in the "Declaration of Independence" does it guarantee you the right to revolt? 

I tell you what.  You grab a group of your friends, arm yourself, head down and take over your state government and tell them the "Declaration of Independence" says you can take over.  See how far that gets you.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Perhaps you and your cohorts should actually ... well, ... yanno ... READ the Declaration of Independence, before making claims about what it does, or does not contain.

Firm



Still looking for where it says YOU can revolt and take over.  I would think the Government would take a different view.  Your ruled by the constitution.  You'll have to write your own Declaration of Independence.

I'll suggest again, you and some buddies gather guns and march down to the courthouse or the state senate and tell them the Declaration of Independence says you can take over. 

Let us know how that works out for you.

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RE: Is this a threat? sedition? or just posturing? - 10/22/2010 10:17:08 AM   
Lucylastic


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Your righty friends here Firm dont seem to give a shit one way or another  either.




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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
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