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RE: Just a question - 10/23/2011 6:04:06 AM   
SoulAlloy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissImmortalPain

I have to go with....it depends. As said above if a safeword has been given , allowed, rules set, all that and then taken away. Yes I would say it is coersion. On the other hand there is a sign in my home that states "There are no safe words here. Language is a dangerous thing, get used to it"


I would agree with that, some people don't like safewords for various reasons. Some see it as a lack of trust, others just hate the idea of needing one and would prefer "No, please stop".

To give a safeword though and then say 'use it and we're through' - I wouldn't appreciate that one bit.

If it's clear from the get-go then it's not coersion, and you either agree to it or you don't. I agree the consequences seem extreme and you do have occasions where play does have to stop (for e.g. I was once leashed to the kitchen sink and was coming close to passing out, falling over would either have pulled the tap out or given my neck one hell of a jarring)

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RE: Just a question - 10/23/2011 7:49:15 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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That's not "just a question" in my mind. It's a loaded question, filled with emotional ramification.

I would consider the scenario as outlined to be coercive, manipulative, and abusive. Subs want to be pleasing and obedient, so putting the entire relationship on the line as part of every BDSM session is not the proper way to run a relationship, IMO.

It's trust testing and emotional blackmail at it's very worst, using BDSM as the framework to make it "okay."

Now that I've gotten *that* out of the way, safewords are only as safe as the top in whose hands the sub puts him/herself. I imagine we have all heard far too many stories from subs who sessioned with someone (generally that they did not know well) who completely ignored their safeword, and physical a/o emotional trauma ensued.

Frankly, I see safewords as useful tools for those who like to bottom in public on a casual basis. I say in public b/c one can at least hope the DM or one of his/her minions would stop the session if the sub was safewording, even if the top didn't.

Subs that put themselves under the control of a dominant they do not trust a/o do not know well would be naive to the extreme to think a "safeword" is going rescue them. Some doms will backoff, others won't, and others CAN'T.

But I'd like to explore that last statement for a moment.

A well trained and (most likely) experienced dominant (note I say the dominant is trained) will back off once they hear a safeword, b/c they don't have anything in particular to prove and don't want to break their toys. The two have properly negotiated the session so the sub has some idea of what to expect, intensity wise, and what to do should the sub need to stop for physical or emotional reasons.

The dominant who does not stop when they hear a safeword tends to fall into a fairly well established category. They hate the opposite gender and use BDSM  as a cover to get their sadistic needs met. They could care less about the person who bottoms for them; in their mind, *they* are the dominant, so it's all about them. This type (male or female, it is not gender specific) tend to be horrifically bad relationship material for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, it seems far too many new subs buy into this BS. Reasons to be leery of anyone who is specifically looking for new, inexperienced subs.

The dominant who *CAN'T* back off is almost certainly very new at experiencing the power rush of dominating someone. It can be absolutely intoxicating (dom space if you will) and VERY hard to back off, even if you think your beloved sub needs you to. This is indicative of not so much a "bad" dominant as it is of an inexperienced one.  Reasons to go slow when you're new, b/c it is possible to do great harm when you don't know what you are doing, and don't know when to back off.

Now for that last phrase of knowing when to back off. To me (and I know I am not alone) one of the most powerful rushes in the whole world is having a s-type under me who is on the edge of needing to back off, but who it "taking it for me." Now that floats my boat big time. Would I back off if the s-type safeworded? Of course I would. But I hope they don't b/c like many dominants, I like to push limits and see how far I can go.

You can't do that is someone safewords too soon, believe me, I got that. However, it is my very strong opinion that the (emotionally secure) s-type will only have a desire to "take it for you" if you have built a strong foundation of mutual trust. And there is no handy dandy shortcut to building that kind of relationship.

Most dominants like to push limits,  most dominants want an s-type that trusts them enough not to need to safeword unless there is a real and true emergency. But you are not going to get there (without emotional blackmail) unless you take the time to build a strong basis of trust.




< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 10/23/2011 8:22:27 AM >


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RE: Just a question - 10/23/2011 8:31:14 AM   
DarkSteven


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A safeword does two things.  It keeps the bottom safe and happy, and it preserves the Top's reputation. If word got out that a Top had not honored a safeword, he'd be shunned.  If word got out that a Top has refused to allow even having a safeword, there'd be messages sent out throughout the community to avoid him.  Rightly so.


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RE: Just a question - 10/23/2011 8:39:24 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

A safeword does two things.  It keeps the bottom safe and happy, and it preserves the Top's reputation. If word got out that a Top had not honored a safeword, he'd be shunned.  If word got out that a Top has refused to allow even having a safeword, there'd be messages sent out throughout the community to avoid him.  Rightly so.



I certainly agree with you that when to comes to casual play sessions. Which is why I said this:

Frankly, I see safewords as useful tools for those who like to bottom in public on a casual basis.

However, I know many who are in close, well established relationships who rarely or never use safewords. To me, this is a viable position for those who trust each other enough to be in that place.

But, going from the trust level of being a casual play partner to the trust level of a close well established relationship partner is a long road that, for me at least, should not be rushed.


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RE: Just a question - 10/23/2011 1:31:42 PM   
Hisprettybaby


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
If your partner tells you that using your safeword would end all play and the relationship forever, is that coersion ?

I'm not one to use my safeword, unless it's an extreme situation. In the year that Daddy and I have been together, I've used it only once. But I have to be allowed a safeword. Telling me that I couldn't use it would be like telling me I'm not allowed to have one at all. If someone were to not allow me a safeword to protect myself with, I would say GOODBYE and not let the door hit me in the ass on the way out. I do think it would be coercion, manipulation, and abusive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
A safeword does two things. It keeps the bottom safe and happy, and it preserves the Top's reputation. If word got out that a Top had not honored a safeword, he'd be shunned. If word got out that a Top has refused to allow even having a safeword, there'd be messages sent out throughout the community to avoid him. Rightly so.

Those things would SO happen SO frickin' fast in my local BDSM community!!!

~Hisprettybaby~

< Message edited by Hisprettybaby -- 10/23/2011 1:33:01 PM >

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RE: Just a question - 10/23/2011 2:00:06 PM   
MistressLilliana


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Indeed

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RE: Just a question - 11/1/2011 3:48:04 PM   
hardbody0224


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This is abuse and it's likely to turn into an abusive relationship. My advice would be to get away, as far away from this person as you can. Safewords are an impotant part of play.

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RE: Just a question - 4/27/2012 2:10:34 PM   
Bhruic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

If your partner tells you that using your safeword would end all play and the relationship forever, is that coersion ?



In my opinion, yes. It's coercion and, as others have said, abuse.

I have no problem with "red" ending a scene, with no recriminations. It helps her push her boundaries and limits overly casual use of the safe word system - plus I just think that when we get to red, its a good idea to stop and regroup... but ending the relationship? That's whack.

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RE: Just a question - 4/29/2012 5:35:26 PM   
NiceButMeanGirl


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NECRO THREAD!!!!
A year and a half old!!

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