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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/19/2011 3:57:34 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I cut mine. Just takes some common sense.

AND I'm on a fixed rate plan. You didn't get sucked into signing up for variable rates, did you?


Gosh- now you got me curious.  We (PA) now have "choice".   I switched from PPL to dominun.

I will tell you what I used...

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/19/2011 4:00:11 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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317 kilowatts- up from 240 of last year.

So I have used more.  But that doesnt make sense...

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/19/2011 4:06:20 PM   
mnottertail


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Yup, its a mixed up, fucked up, jumbled up world for silver hoarders.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/19/2011 4:23:33 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yup, its a mixed up, fucked up, jumbled up world for silver hoarders.



Hoard aluminum.

(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/19/2011 7:20:21 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yup, its a mixed up, fucked up, jumbled up world for silver hoarders.



Except for Lola.

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/19/2011 8:24:04 PM   
Termyn8or


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Is there a red under my bed ?

T^T

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/20/2011 5:26:51 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yup, its a mixed up, fucked up, jumbled up world for silver hoarders.



Hoard aluminum.


Or plutonium.
You can ask your own price for that stuff in Korea and Iran at the moment...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/20/2011 6:49:41 AM   
Termyn8or


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UFR

My eyes lited on the title here and I got to thinking. Is it even possible to eliminate "inflation" ? Let's just say for example that the currency value is almost literally etched in stone. Or perhaps that we trade strictly in gold or silver (which doesn't really accomplish that anyway), or by some means the value of the currency is fixed and cannot change. Period. I know it's far fetched, but just for example let's say there's an act of congress or something that would absolutely fix the value of the USD period. In other words isolate that from the equation.

Would that eliminate "inflation" ? I don't think so. Somewhere along the line, someone will sooner or later want more money. Even in a totally isolated economy, could it even happen ?

All it takes is one. One person decides he is not charging enough for his goods or services, and everyone in need of those will have to pay more. Where would that money come from, thin air ? No, people would either have to pay more or buy less, of that there is no question. Remember now that in this sense it would be "voluntary inflation" I guess. This would not be an external factor, not by a stretch. So you go down to see Sam Drucker at the general store and find a few prices went up. Sam wants to build on to his store, or needs a new horse, whatever. So you go in there and sugar costs 10% more. So you grumble and pay up because you can't make the moonshine without it (well it would not be easy). Obviously you must charge more for your brand of white lightnin'.

So Otis comes along for his usual bottle of "tonic" and grumbles, but pays the higher price. Where does Otis get the money ? Well if he has money he got it somewhere, and with everything else constant he must then charge more for whatever service he performs. His customers grumble, and then pay up. Where do they get the money ? Pretty much the same way.

Now once the higher price is established there is no more grumbling. The addition on Sam's store is complete. Keeping everything constant here, all he has to do is cut a bit more wood for heat. If he has electricity we might be taling about one or two more lightbulbs, so minute an amount it doesn't even matter (in a way). Once the building is over, the costs are pretty much the same, but the higher price has been established. Will Sam then lower the price ? I think not.

How many people would walk into their bosses office and ask for a pay cut ? Believe it or not I actually did once, but I had good reason, it was a tradeoff. But really this does not happen much to say the least. Most people want raises, and to get them takes a threat, the treat of finding another job, but the dynamics of that situation are not the point now though. So labor costs would rise even with all other factors locked. Would that be a fair assumption ?

If so, then "inflation", in it's pure form, unlike as we know it, is then a constant. The rate might not be constant, but the trend would be. That would mean that this "true" inflation is a natural factor in a normal economy. If so that means there is no way to stop it without draconian measures. Whether it is fueled by need or greed doesn't matter, it is simply a natural thing.

If so then, it is futile to fight it. Thinking back to Nixon's wage and price freeze, what did it really accomplish ? First of all it's nearly impossible to enforce, and even with 100% compliance what good did it do, and what good could such a measure do today ? It simply won't work, the freeze would have to be worldwide, and that is of course impossible. Then what does a freeze mean ? If your costs go up and you don't raise prices you are in violation because you effectively took a pay cut.

So even under ideal conditions, true inflation will exist. How to manage it ? Market forces come to mind. Just like if you walked into the bosses office and demanded double the pay, you would most likely price yourself out of a job, so there's not alot of that going around. Any raise in pay that is not totally merit based will cause natural inflation.

Enter the unions, and COLAs. A "cost_of_living_adjustment" is in a way a self fulfilling "prophesy". The simple fact is that the money has to come from somewhere. That is universally the customer, unless people take to just dropping money off for no good reason.

Now what ? If you can't stop it, can you slow it down ? Do you even want to ? Maybe the way to go is just let it happen and lop a zero off the currency every few decades.

Now, if true infation is equal across the board, has it even occurred ?

T^T

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/20/2011 9:33:51 AM   
Musicmystery


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Term,

You're confusing price level (inflation) with price for quantity demanded of individual goods (determined by market forces, and which consists of a range of quantities and prices at a given time).

Contrary to popular belief, you can't (sensibly) just charge any price you wish; quantity demanded drops, and consequently profits.

But your point, for different reasons, is generally true--growing economies have some inflation.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/20/2011 9:35:14 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/20/2011 9:54:43 AM   
pahunkboy


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Yeah Term,   you are confused.

STOMP

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/20/2011 9:56:05 AM   
Musicmystery


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And no, pahb, that doesn't mean prices for some goods aren't rising. They are, particularly fuel and food.

A point I made earlier.

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/20/2011 10:03:28 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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The COLAs are interesting the watch.

Congress- fed and state get COLAs,  but everyone else gets a freeze or even a cut.

MM- dont mind me,  I get frustrated meeting expenses. I so do not want a room mate. At times- the bills are tight.

Weatherization was here today.  Basically- I use power "like no one lives here".
My usage is around 1/2 the total power of what typical house in my area uses.
I had all the new light bulbs- anything they discussed I pretty much had done so already.  My fridge takes $1  month- I said- isnt it more like $1 a day.

I almost canceled.    They did give me a carbon monoxide detector.  So- it is all good.

I should not complain-  things are pretty good for me.   Some people losing everything they worked for...  I am lucky.  


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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/20/2011 10:12:15 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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Kind of funny.  When we did the paper work- I asked  "how much am I going to save a month?"    We all just laughed...  I had been doing what they recommended.   So- there wont be any reduction.

I did spare them  the rants on CEO pay- and what the spend lobbying Harrisburg.       Nice me.   Maybe...

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/21/2011 5:42:41 AM   
Termyn8or


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"You're confusing price level (inflation) with price for quantity demanded of individual goods "

Huh ? I thought I was specifically illustrating the difference.

And a thought occurred to me after I wrote it, there is a factor even with "natural" inflation. If one has savings, all the currency in circulation might not be affected all that much, but what of savings ?

In that sense even if "inflation" were equal across the board, somebody gets fucked, those with money in the bank.

Ain't that just great ?

T^T

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/21/2011 10:16:51 AM   
BenevolentM


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In this thread there have been only two lines of thought. 1) No, what the OP is saying isn't true because it isn't. 2) How some people find a certain expression offensive.

If 1) is true, then why can't any of you produce details to back what you are saying up. It sounds like everyone is really saying: No, it can't be true! It just can't be.

OK, how is the OP an economic infant? Don't just accuse him of being an economic infant. Prove it man, prove it. Nail his ass.

Well actually Termyn8or put some effort into it. Brownie points for him.

< Message edited by BenevolentM -- 1/21/2011 10:26:04 AM >

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/21/2011 10:58:34 AM   
BenevolentM


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A concern I have with your argument Termyn8or is that it does not clearly show that any real asymmetry exists. Some products decrease in value.

My guess is the Fed anticipates how much currency is needed, but can only forecast. It does not know how much currency is needed in real time. Predictability is good for business. So which is better?

1) Do you allow the value of the dollar to ripple where the ripple fluctuates like the stock market

or

2) Do you introduce a systematic error that causes the clock to predictably run fast?

Should the clock run fast or slow? If it ran slow, business might get fat and lazy. If if runs fast, business is kept fit and trim.

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/21/2011 12:33:06 PM   
BenevolentM


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According to my clock is running fast model cost of living adjustments, for example, are legitimate in that the rate of inflation is partially predictable. It is known in advance that the cost of things are going to go up and not down.

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/21/2011 1:12:51 PM   
BenevolentM


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The problem with such an approach is that it is kind of like having a boss telling you what to do even if you own your own business. The bank is there with a whip standing over you ordering you to work hard, work efficient even if this is not something you want to do. It is a matter of priorities I suppose. I suspect that we collectively don't know what is actually needed to keep the economy alive and well which makes us anxious. Downward spirals are possible. So keep the nose up!

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/21/2011 4:08:09 PM   
pahunkboy


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Ben- I am in silver PMs-  so no worries here. 

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RE: And Now For My Next Magic Trick… NO Inflation! A... - 1/22/2011 2:24:01 AM   
BenevolentM


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In the interest of survival it may be better to state your case to the ruling elite that it is vital that you should survive and offer your humble services to help repopulate the species.

I recall the words of tweakabelle when she addressed me and the beauty of her words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

I shall forever be in your thrall.


Yes, females have the capacity to be beautiful, but if I am to be saved what am I to do with all this gold I have accumulated? An inspired thought has come to me. Forge a golden dildo in the shape of my penis.

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