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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/22/2011 12:30:18 PM   
graceadieu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

Standard security measures, including security personnel, tagging of garments and items, indeed all the things that retailers are doing. Most of the really big-money "shoplifters" don't shoplift as such either; they tend instead to use cloned credit cards to buy things "legally".

CCTV is, mostly, a waste of money, outside of certain specific situations. Catching shoplifters isn't one of them.

I wouldn't expect you to know that though ... I remember previous arguments...



I work at a major American chain retailer, and honestly.... security tags on items do very little to deter shoplifters. They just grab a bag full of popular blackmarket items and run for their getaway car. By the time somebody hears the alarm and goes to check it out, they're long gone.

ETA: Or they open the (tagged) packaging and hide the (untagged) item in their coat/purse/backpack.

The best way to deter shoplifters is to have more employees in the store, of course, but corporate doesn't want to pay for that. CCTV doesn't really deter shoplifters, but at least it allows us to identify them after the fact, report them to the police, recognize them in the future, and possibly even tell what they stole for our insurance purposes.

< Message edited by graceadieu -- 1/22/2011 12:32:17 PM >

(in reply to RapierFugue)
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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/22/2011 12:42:38 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu
The best way to deter shoplifters is to have more employees in the store, of course, but corporate doesn't want to pay for that. CCTV doesn't really deter shoplifters, but at least it allows us to identify them after the fact, report them to the police, recognize them in the future, and possibly even tell what they stole for our insurance purposes.


For sure, accepted. But the systems are very expensive, both to install, and maintain and man. Out of interest, has any research been done in the US to determine whether they (the cameras) pay for themselves? Coz the last figures here said that, for most situations, in areas that already had reasonable security (like Malls), they don't make anywhere near enough difference to justify their costs. And that’s without factoring in the privacy issue.

What I would like to see is credit card companies getting serious about fraud. My cop friends have all told me that the "Pro" shoplifters aren't bothering to "steal" as such anymore (although of course it is stealing, if you follow me), but instead are using cloned cards to "buy" the stock legally. I've had cards cloned previously and was amazed at the attitude of the CC companies; "it's nothing, we'll send you new cards and refund the money, blah blah blah", and, when I asked what steps were taken to track these fraudsters down, was amazed to be told that they don't really bother with the "small time" ones too much, due to manpower issues. Bottom line is they're raking it in on interest payments people make, so they just jack those up another point to pay for the fraud, and don't tackle the heart of the matter, namely their own laughable security.

Chip & PIN was cracked within 3 months, FFS!

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 12:33:29 PM   
Termyn8or


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FR

Ever watch COPS ? I never really had a problem with them videotaping traffic stops and other actions on the street, you are in public, get it through your head. Why do you think bathrooms are designed so people can't see you ?

Now when they take a video camera INSIDE someone's house during a raid, I DO hve a problem with that. Doesn't matter what it's for, that is their home. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Now let's say you have to make a large cash transaction. Let me give you an example in the news many yers ago. Someone had to go out of town to buy some feed or something. They took the money for a few reasons. For one alot of people have problems with out of state checks, and as discussed in another thread even cashier's checks and money orders can be forged. It is only more recently that the average Joe can do it. With laser printers and who knows what else, for a couple of grand you can forge almost anything. I know someone who shall remain anmeless who did a bit of hanky panky with a document which was accepted by the government, thinking that they had printed it HA HA. The technology is good enough now that measures had to be taken to prevent people from counterfeiting. In every scanner, in the software is a detection module which detects US currency from being scanned beyond a certain resolution. At lower resolutions the copy will not be good enough, at a sufficiently high resolution it yields a blank screen. Try it sometime. My laser printer is easily good enough to print money, but how do I get the master image ? And those who know how to tell fakes can be fooled. For example the paper is a dead givaway, but what is stopping anyone from bleaching a bunch of ones and printing twenties on the paper ? The lack of an image. If you want to counterfeit you have to do it the old fashioned way, with a lithograph.

There is a sucker born every minute, thus there is a scam born every minute. Anything that is Man made can be Man broken. Now let's take security in other forms. Cameras are all over the place. You are in the bank withdrawing say twenty grand in cash. I don't care if you need it to buy a classic car, a boat, or even for a drug deal. You have all that cash on you, do the cameras bother you now ? Even if you have a gun and shoot someone who tries to rob you, wouldn't it be nice to have evidence that they were trying to rob you ?

Armed robbers are another story. The group will have associates to facilitate their getaway. These people will not be known associates, and the pool of people willing grows every year. It is not practical to walk - say into a mall - wearing a mask. That in and of itself draws much suspicion. So you walk in there like Joe sixpack looking to buy a new idiot box of whatever type, or some lead poisoned Chinese toys. All the sudden you start the show. You get all the untracable cash from the other patrons as well as what's in the cash register, and you could go ahead and grab a few other goodies along the way. Your unknown cohorts make it look like an accident that they facilitated your getaway and could get off scot free. Without cameras how do they know who you are ? Fourteen different descriptions from ten people ? Sure.

How about the thread "Luckiest people" ? The guy who shot through the busy intersection against a red light. Should people just be able to do that ? I almost wish that guy would've gotten Tboned. Now he'll just do it again, and next time he might not be so lucky. Let me rephrae that, OTHER PEOPLE might not be so lucky.

I am the staunchest supporter of castle doctrine and the idea that your home is your castle, inviolable. But when you step out into public, you are in public. Most people are under a camera's eye at work, only to find out after they've done something wrong. So in this situation, would it not be better to have the security office under surveillance so that the one who released the video in question could be canned or possibly prosecuted ? Riddle me that.

The fact is there are alot of people who think that others should be watched, but not be watched themselves. Many want public servants, particularly, to be watched at all times. Do you disagree ? Do you think the Watergate tapes should never have been recorded ? What's more, recording everything that goes on in the highest official office in the country, is that the act of a dishonest person ? To put himself under surveillance ? Many questions, many.

What about the people who caught their babysitter abusing their kid on a hidden camera in their own home ? They almost got prosecuted ! What a fucking crock. What about when you send your bambinos to daycare ? I for one would like to see ten thousand cameras in places like that. Or would you rather have them do whatever they want to your kids ?

The answers roll off easily when the questions are not carefully cosidered. OK to tap the Whitehouse but not your livingroom, OK to tap the cop, but not the fireman. OK to watch the security guy, but not those he is hired to watch. I don't get it.

Does it matter if people see you in public, or is it the camera's fault ? Just like guns kill people, blame the device not the person. What if that mall was very crowded. Many people would have had a very good look at this broad's face and would be able to recognize her in the future. Then someone like me could ask her if she's been rebaptised lately, and face a lawsuit for harrassment.

So many issues, signs of the times, are signs of devolution. And we poke fun at it. We are just terrible.

T^T

(in reply to RapierFugue)
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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 12:37:41 PM   
RapierFugue


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And that, children, is why doing drugs is bad, m'kay?

;)

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 12:39:13 PM   
Termyn8or


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Perhaps you should clarify that.

T^T

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 12:43:32 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Perhaps you should clarify that.


Ok, let me see ... your rants sometimes leave me with the impression you're completely off your tits at times. How's that?

Don't get me wrong, I love em - they're highly entertaining :)

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 12:53:39 PM   
Termyn8or


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But have you thought about the question posed ? Who should, if anyone be under a camera's eye ? And what's more, just to whom would we entrust such a decision ?

T^T

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 12:57:19 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

But have you thought about the question posed ? Who should, if anyone be under a camera's eye ? And what's more, just to whom would we entrust such a decision ?

T^T


Anyone should. Why not? Unless you are doing something wrong? Privacy doesn't actually exist. Anyone who uses the internet should be aware of that. If you really think that cameras shouldn't be 'out there' then you shouldn't even be on the net.

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 1:04:56 PM   
Termyn8or


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Out there is fine with me. That is what I was trying to get across. When you are in public that means you are in public. If I pay you to do a job, is it so wrong to have proof that the job is being done to my satisfaction ? If my employer want to see everyhing he is paying for, I really don't have a problem with it. But when I am not being paid, nor out in public, camereas are a nono.

T^T

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 1:09:15 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Out there is fine with me. That is what I was trying to get across. When you are in public that means you are in public. If I pay you to do a job, is it so wrong to have proof that the job is being done to my satisfaction ? If my employer want to see everyhing he is paying for, I really don't have a problem with it. But when I am not being paid, nor out in public, camereas are a nono.


I don't think they should be used anywhere, other than for specific site security of places designated as needing that level of security.

But that's just me. It's an interesting subject though, because if you'd asked your question back in, say, the 50s, you'd have been shouted down by people rejecting undue intrusion. Now, people have become so paranoid, thanks to government and the media, that they're actually beginning to demand surveillance. An incredible turnaround, when you think of it.

It's like turkeys voting for Christmas ;)

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 1:09:41 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

But have you thought about the question posed ? Who should, if anyone be under a camera's eye ? And what's more, just to whom would we entrust such a decision ?

T^T


Anyone should. Why not? Unless you are doing something wrong? Privacy doesn't actually exist. Anyone who uses the internet should be aware of that. If you really think that cameras shouldn't be 'out there' then you shouldn't even be on the net.


That's really a cliche.

"If I'm doing nothing wrong I have nothing to worry about".

Except for the fact I am being watched constantly to ensure my behavior.

(in reply to RCdc)
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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 1:11:07 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
"If I'm doing nothing wrong I have nothing to worry about".

Except for the fact I am being watched constantly to ensure my behavior.


The problem with this sort of topic is that it's almost inevitably going to fall foul of Godwin's Law at some point :)

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 1:22:29 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Out there is fine with me. That is what I was trying to get across. When you are in public that means you are in public. If I pay you to do a job, is it so wrong to have proof that the job is being done to my satisfaction ? If my employer want to see everyhing he is paying for, I really don't have a problem with it. But when I am not being paid, nor out in public, camereas are a nono.

T^T


Depends.
Toilets? Changing rooms... Yeah... I can dig that no cameras is pretty much a nono.

In a non public setting, then it's up to the place of the owner... your house, your rules. Don't like it? Don't go to someones house where you might be on camera. Other than that - in a public setting, what really is the big deal for you?

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 1:26:05 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

That's really a cliche.

"If I'm doing nothing wrong I have nothing to worry about".

Except for the fact I am being watched constantly to ensure my behavior.



It's only cliche if you are really under the impression that life is free.

Do you believe that freedom of speech is a right that everyone should be allowed?


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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 1:27:11 PM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
The problem with this sort of topic is that it's almost inevitably going to fall foul of Godwin's Law at some point :)


Heh....


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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 1:58:54 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

CCTV is also the name of the Chinese nationalised TV service.

Is this just a coincidence I ask?



Please tell me your post needs a sarcasm or irony emoticon?!

(It's interesting you know the call letters of the Chinese nationalized TV srevice)

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 2:10:29 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

I have never quite figured out texting. You have a phone in your hand and can call and speak to someone directly, yet people prefer to send messages.


Texting is less of a commitment than a phone call.

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 2:15:22 PM   
kalikshama


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http://www.crimedoctor.com/employee_theft.htm

Cost of Employee Theft

According to the University of Florida 2005 National Retail Security Survey, employee theft was estimated to be responsible for 47% of store inventory shrinkage. That represents an estimated employee theft price tag of about 17.6-billion dollars per year. This astounding figure makes employee dishonesty the greatest single threat to profitability at the store level.

The 2003 study found the average dollar loss per employee theft case to be $1,762.00 compared to $265.40 for the average shoplifting incident. Despite these facts, most retailers mistakenly focus their loss prevention budgets on shoplifting.

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/24/2011 9:50:55 PM   
Termyn8or


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Nice game, convince them you are solving the problem, and don't. Then you continue to get paid to solve the problem. Sounds about how the government works.

T^T

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RE: Inadvertent viral-video star may sue mall - 1/25/2011 2:20:49 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Nice game, convince them you are solving the problem, and don't. Then you continue to get paid to solve the problem. Sounds about how the government works.


*ding*

Bloke wins a goldfish.

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