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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 6:00:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

Anaxagoras
If I was to say I'm wrong to accuse you of supporting Hamas then I would be a person lacking "a shred of integrity". I'm sorry if I upset you but I think I provided enough evidence.
'

You made the claim that I "defended Hamas". Criticism of Israeli actions does not equal defending Hamas. If that is the case then you too are defending Hamas by criticising the use of cluster bombs in 2006 by the Israelis.

This is like talking to someone who doesn't quite understand English - although they do but refuse to acknowledge or show they understand. Yes criticism of Israel does not equal support for Hamas but you did more than that.

I cited a post (see post 296 above) that Tweakabelle put up where she said "Resistance by the local indigenous population to the occupation and theft of its land is met with accusations of 'terrorism'". This was on a thread where we were talking primarily about Hamas. She described Palestinian militants generally as "resistance by the local indigenous population" - that is a defence of their actions, and even goes on to criticise Israel for opposing the actions of these groups.

quote:

You cannot produce an iota of evidence to support your claim, no matter how much you distort the things I have said.

Yes I did - you just refuse to admit it. You defended these people as "Resistance" fighters, an indigenous population defending their lands. That is moral legitimisation of Palestinian terrorism - what else could it possibly be I wonder?

quote:

Anaxagoras, you remain a liar and a hypocrite - a person bereft of integrity.

I'm afraid you're describing yourself - you can always retract your statement but you refuse to acknowledge its overt truth.

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 6:10:23 PM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras

"Resistance by the local indigenous population to the occupation and theft of its land is met with accusations of 'terrorism'". This was on a thread where we were talking primarily about Hamas. She described Palestinian militants generally as "resistance by the local indigenous population" - that is a defence of their actions, and even goes on to criticise Israel for opposing the actions of these groups.

An Israeli Sense of Humor at UN set the record straight.

An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly and made the world community smile.

A representative from Israel began: 'Before beginning m...y talk I want to tell you something about Moses: When he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought, 'What a good opportunity to have a bath!'

Moses removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water. When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Palestinian had stolen them!

The Palestinian representative at the UN jumped up furiously and shouted, 'What are you talking about? The Palestinians weren't there then.'

The Israeli representative smiled and said, 'And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech..'.

Actually, I am pretty sure that the story is an urban legend, but it still amuses me.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 6:23:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
"Resistance by the local indigenous population to the occupation and theft of its land is met with accusations of 'terrorism'". This was on a thread where we were talking primarily about Hamas. She described Palestinian militants generally as "resistance by the local indigenous population" - that is a defence of their actions, and even goes on to criticise Israel for opposing the actions of these groups.

An Israeli Sense of Humor at UN set the record straight.

An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly and made the world community smile.

A representative from Israel began: 'Before beginning m...y talk I want to tell you something about Moses: When he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought, 'What a good opportunity to have a bath!'

Moses removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water. When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Palestinian had stolen them!

The Palestinian representative at the UN jumped up furiously and shouted, 'What are you talking about? The Palestinians weren't there then.'

The Israeli representative smiled and said, 'And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech..'.

Actually, I am pretty sure that the story is an urban legend, but it still amuses me.

I haven't heard that story myself but its a good joke whether it happened or not! People indigenous to a region also includes displaced peoples. The Jews are the indigenous people. That's not to say the Palestinians don't also have some claim but they came to that patch of land relatively late. The common pro-Palestinian attitude is that the Palestinians are the people of the land and Jews are just European colonial invaders! It relates to Arafat's co-opting of the term "Palestinian" when in fact the Jews were understood just as much to be Palestinians as the Arab Muslims of today. An old Jewish man told me a common retort in Dublin in the 40's was "go home to Palestine, Jew". Now its get out of Palestine.

(in reply to Aylee)

RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 7:19:09 PM

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quote:

Anaxagoras

I cited a post (see post 296 above) that Tweakabelle put up where she said "Resistance by the local indigenous population to the occupation and theft of its land is met with accusations of 'terrorism'". This was on a thread where we were talking primarily about Hamas. She described Palestinian militants generally as "resistance by the local indigenous population" - that is a defence of their actions, and even goes on to criticise Israel for opposing the actions of these groups.

Is this the sum total of your evidence?

This is not a statement of support for anything. It is a description of events. Hamas is not mentioned. No amount of verbal gymnastics or distortion by you or anyone else can convert that into a statement of support.

People everywhere have the right to resist Occupation by alien powers. Stating that people have that right doesn't involve, or even imply approval of the ways they may choose to go about asserting it. If I state that Americans have a right to gun ownership, it doesn't mean I approve of every gun use or killing in the US. How much stupider can your weasel claims get?

So despite your fatuous claims - NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.

Anaxagoras you remain a liar and a hypocrite. You don't possess a shred of integrity and will remain as such until you withdraw and apologise.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/20/2011 7:28:01 PM >

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 7:31:32 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It's heading that way, isn't it?
(That said, it'll be interesting to see how the changes in Egypt pan out regarding that, given there's no longer a US backed autocrat who's been warned off messing with Israel in charge...)

Nope, it is here already, same old shit, no one going nowhere which will be come another insult swapping session eventually, as it always does when compromise is not on the cards.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 7:35:52 PM

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My god you really are pathetic. All you do is deny deny deny and lash out at others when they use your own words to prove what you are.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

Anaxagoras

I cited a post (see post 296 above) that Tweakabelle put up where she said "Resistance by the local indigenous population to the occupation and theft of its land is met with accusations of 'terrorism'". This was on a thread where we were talking primarily about Hamas. She described Palestinian militants generally as "resistance by the local indigenous population" - that is a defence of their actions, and even goes on to criticise Israel for opposing the actions of these groups.

Is this the sum total of your evidence?

This is not a statement of support for anything. It is a description of events. Hamas is not mentioned. No amount of verbal gymnastics or distortion by you or anyone else can convert that into a statement of support.

You defend and morally legitimise Palestinian Terrorism. It was in the context of discussing Hamas. Therefore you were defending and legitimising Hamas. There are no verbal or intellectual gymnastics. In my response on that thread I challenged you about supporting them and in response you simply insulted me

quote:

People everywhere have the right to resist Occupation by alien powers. Stating that people have that right doesn't involve approval of the ways they may choose to go about asserting it. If I state that Americans have a right to gun ownership, it doesn't mean I approve of every gun use or killing in the US. How much stupider can your weasel claims get?

You stated "Resistance by the local indigenous population to the occupation and theft of its land is met with accusations of 'terrorism'" - THAT IS A DEFENCE OF PALESTINIAN TERROR, WHICH YOU DENY AS BEING TERROR, AND NO AMOUNT OF INSULTS WILL CHANGE THE MEANING OF THE SENTENCE

quote:

So despite your fatuous claims - NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.

Anaxagoras you remain a liar and a hypocrite. You don't possess a shred of integrity and will remain as such until you withdraw and apologise.

You are a cretinous individual who throws the liar tag around at anyone who disagrees with you. It is pathetic. One example is DomKen who you called a liar just because he couldn't find a link to prove an assertion Turkey was becoming hostile before the Gaza Flotilla Incident. You sling abuse at others and act the victim when they return the favour. Its sad.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 2/20/2011 7:41:39 PM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 7:42:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

It's heading that way, isn't it?
(That said, it'll be interesting to see how the changes in Egypt pan out regarding that, given there's no longer a US backed autocrat who's been warned off messing with Israel in charge...)

Nope, it is here already, same old shit, no one going nowhere which will be come another insult swapping session eventually, as it always does when compromise is not on the cards.

Yes I am sorry it has turned out like this. Some one made a vicious accusation at me and I defended myself. All the evidence is on the thread now and people can judge for themselves.

With regard to Egypt, I do have a concern that power is now in hands of the military there. This group profited enormously under the dictatorship. They carried out the dictator's orders. No one could describe them as a progressive force.

So in the longer term, there are grounds for pessimism. Does anyone see the military voluntarily releasing their grip on power? Does any one see the military exposing themselves to possible punishment for their complicity in the Mubarak's crimes?

I fear there is a lot more blood to be shed before Egyptians get the democracy they yearn for.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 7:48:43 PM

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From: Tamaris
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The thing is, everyone is watching, speak with honesty and integrity you will be judged for your honesty and integrity, speak with lies and deceit, well, liars are always found out and from there, never trusted again.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tweakabelle)

RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 7:49:43 PM

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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
It's heading that way, isn't it?
(That said, it'll be interesting to see how the changes in Egypt pan out regarding that, given there's no longer a US backed autocrat who's been warned off messing with Israel in charge...)

Nope, it is here already, same old shit, no one going nowhere which will be come another insult swapping session eventually, as it always does when compromise is not on the cards.

Yes I am sorry it has turned out like this. Some one made a vicious accusation at me and I defended myself. All the evidence is on the thread now and people can judge for themselves.

It is a reasoned accusation based on the very words you used. I actually said it on another thread at least twice and you only challenged me about the assertion here. It is also untrue to suggest you were only responding to accusations. I didn't make the assertion that you defended terrorism at first. You were the one to step the posts about Israel up a notch with Post 250 (page 13) which labelled many accusations at Israel, which of course you must have known I would answer.

< Message edited by Anaxagoras -- 2/20/2011 7:51:13 PM >

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 7:55:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The thing is, everyone is watching, speak with honesty and integrity you will be judged for your honesty and integrity, speak with lies and deceit, well, liars are always found out and from there, never trusted again.

Sounds good to me

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 9:42:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
[...]
With regard to Egypt, I do have a concern that power is now in hands of the military there. This group profited enormously under the dictatorship. They carried out the dictator's orders. No one could describe them as a progressive force.

So in the longer term, there are grounds for pessimism. Does anyone see the military voluntarily releasing their grip on power? Does any one see the military exposing themselves to possible punishment for their complicity in the Mubarak's crimes?

I fear there is a lot more blood to be shed before Egyptians get the democracy they yearn for.

The military always was in power, at least for the past sixty years. There are instances of military juntas voluntarily and peacefully giving up power, such as in Brazil.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/20/2011 10:39:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz
The military always was in power, at least for the past sixty years. There are instances of military juntas voluntarily and peacefully giving up power, such as in Brazil.

Generally I like to be optimistic. I wish I could share your apparent optimism in this case. I hope it is justified but I am having some difficulty seeing it at the moment.

Things will be clearer in a few months, but by then the momentum of the moment will have passed and Egypt could slip back into tyranny.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/20/2011 10:41:00 PM >

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/21/2011 6:27:42 PM

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Who are these people really

quote:

Cleric orders Gaddafi killed

nfluential Muslim cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi has issued a fatwa that any Libyan soldier who can shoot dead embattled leader Muammar Gaddafi should do so 'to rid Libya of him.'

<snip>

The cleric, spiritual leader of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood and longtime resident of Qatar, heads the International Union for Muslim Scholars.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/21/2011 6:41:53 PM

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Ghadaffi should be killed.

a despicable monster.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/21/2011 6:44:33 PM

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There are elements to Pan arabism/islamicism that are reasonable, and should be accomodated.

Hating Ghadaffi is one.

Wanting to reverse the breaking into seperate nations by the Europeon conquerers is another (though it may be too late for that).

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/22/2011 9:29:34 AM

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these are the days of change. the storm is coming fast.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/22/2011 11:52:20 AM

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And here we stand with no umbrella.

quote:

ORIGINAL: onikslayer

these are the days of change. the storm is coming fast.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/22/2011 12:03:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

And here we stand with no umbrella.

quote:

ORIGINAL: onikslayer

these are the days of change. the storm is coming fast.

Well, you know what they say about people without the sense to have an umbrella when it rains.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/22/2011 12:42:54 PM

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That theyre susceptible to being nuked by Islamic radicals

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Well, you know what they say about people without the sense to have an umbrella when it rains.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/22/2011 1:08:56 PM

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where would these islamic radicals secure nukes to nuke you with, umbrellaless one?

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