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RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/12/2011 10:15:50 PM   
ZapRobo


Posts: 41
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From: Youngstown, OH
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako
At the moment, I am more TV than TS, though who knows what the future would hold.
Q1: Do you see a practical difference in the above two, as it matters to you ? Would you have an interest in one but not the other? (assuming you have any interest at all)


I've had minimal contact real-life with TG/TV people (my ex had a MPD sub, but only in a relationship with the female personality in the male body and a good friend who is TG) but I would have no interest in a relationship with a TV. I would see a relationship with a TS female (MtF) as the equal to a relationship with a biological female.

quote:

Q2: Generally only applicable if you don't have much interest in male subs; How do you view trans? In the above example, I get the feeling that this dom views trans subs as a stand-in for a female. An acceptable compromise, second choice, etc. Possibly due to the relative numbers of males to females on the site. Do you view trans subs as something seperate, or as a something that approximates a female sub


I have no interest in a male sub - I enjoy and derive pleasure from the female form. If the form started out as male, well surgery and chemistry can do wonderful (and sexy) things. I do see a TG sub as someone distinct from a biologically female sub, but not as a "approximation" of a female, they are female (with some "work" to do in some cases)

quote:

Q4: How do you view crossdressing and feminization, from a fetish viewpoint? Do you find interest in it, and would you take on a trans sub for that purpose? Or, if you do take on a trans sub, would you expect to have that aspect of their life sorted on their own, so that you could concentrate on whatever other kinks you have in mind?


Actually, I have a big thing for feminisation as it relates to bimbofication (one of my favourite fetishes). If I had got involved with a TG sub, then I'd want to take an active role in that part of their "self improvement".

quote:

Q5: Aside from all of the above, do you have any other thoughts to share? If you are a dom that is not seeking trans subs, is it something you've considered?


Nothing I've "considered", but it wasn't someone I would have shied away from while I was seeking. Of course, I'm out of the market for slaves/submissives now - I guess I'll never know if I would have reacted badly (I'd like to think I wouldn't as I find nothing about TG's an issue, but I can't say for certain as I was never in that position)

HTH,


_____________________________

Zap-Robo of http://www.zap-robo.net/
"Do you know what the chain of command is here? It's the chain I go get and beat you with to show you who's in ruttin' command"

(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/12/2011 10:22:20 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
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From: Glasgow, Scotland
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Well thanks for the support everyone ^_^
But I really didn't mean for this to be a trans sympathy thread.

I created this for the purpose of better understanding my target audience; the dominant.  what they seek, and where trans subs might fit in their expectations

(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/12/2011 10:27:40 PM   
FukinTroll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

Well thanks for the support everyone ^_^
But I really didn't mean for this to be a trans sympathy thread.

I created this for the purpose of better understanding my target audience; the dominant.  what they seek, and where trans subs might fit in their expectations



It should be about your expectations.


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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/12/2011 10:31:47 PM   
Nanako


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

Well thanks for the support everyone ^_^
But I really didn't mean for this to be a trans sympathy thread.

I created this for the purpose of better understanding my target audience; the dominant.  what they seek, and where trans subs might fit in their expectations



It should be about your expectations.


I think it should be about the point where their and my expectations meet, though. A relationship should be  mutual, even in a D/s context, right?

(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/12/2011 10:52:03 PM   
FukinTroll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

I think it should be about the point where their and my expectations meet, though. A relationship should be  mutual, even in a D/s context, right?



Yep. There is no particular point I could disagree with you, however again I must stress that being clear on you, your wants and needs is the only way to, clearly, assist those expectations to meet.


_____________________________

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TrollTopia
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The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 5:34:07 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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OP, I'm the worst person to be answering your questions.  I'm thinking that you are actually looking for the Dominant male perspective on this one.  I don't have the trans box checked and I'm not interested in a dynamic with anyone who presents as female in any way.  That includes those who cross dress for fun or fetish.  I also specify that I'm not interested in women.

With this in mind, please understand that I'm not ignoring your questions.  They just don't apply to Me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: hausboy

Good grief. This thread is already giving me a headache.

DarkSteven:  Not sure I follow your logic.  Transfolks are just as fucked up as our non-trans counterparts.  If anything, many of us are much more balanced after transition.

SlaveOwnedDave:  I'm guessing I just have much more contact with transfolk than you do.  There are actually petite transwomen (MTF) out there.  You just don't know it because they live completely as women and just blend right in with all the other women.  And by the way--I guess you don't have a lot of FTMs in your life either.  Because  a good many of us are just as strong as bio-men.  Some of us are body builders....some of us are cops...some firefighters...construction workers...whatever.  I'm a lot stronger than I used to be, courtesy of modern chemistry.

No one sees me as Trans--and thank goodness--I wouldn't want them too-- I am seen exactly as I am--a man.  This whole men are men but trans is trans is a lot of bullocks.  The truth is, there are likely a handful of transpeople who you have encountered in your life, and you had no idea that they are trans.  The only place I'm "out" is here, online.

Many of us, like myself, live completely stealth, so that we can live our lives without having to deal with prejudices of others.  My co-workers....neighbors...not even my housemate...know or suspect that I'm anything other than 100% male from the start.  It's a luxury many of my transsisters don't have.  Saying that you consider transmen to not be "real men" and transwomen to not be 'real women" is really a slap in the face

No offense, hausboy, but I think you just talked yourself into a corner here.  I'm not trying to say that one category of people is more screwed up than another.  What I will say is that if I were in the position that some folks have been, it would probably screw Me up.  Especially if My family couldn't accept Me and I was no longer in the lives of My children and grandchildren like has happened to some folks who are trans.  That's coming from Me who will generally say that I don't care what most people think.  Losing My family though would mess Me up but good.

You said it yourself.  You're stealth and don't have to deal with prejudices.  What if you weren't and you had to?  Are you really going to say that doesn't have an affect on people?  I'm not exactly a blushing flower here, but I'd have to think it would affect Me. 

I think if we're going to discuss the topic in fairness, you have to look at the whole picture.  Not just the part where people are completely through transition and have created their new life on the other side.


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RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 6:40:46 AM   
Sundowner


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I would be VERY leery of a genuine MtF TG. If nothing else, I assume that living a major part of their life being a male while wishing to be a female would have made for some major frustrations and possibly personality issues.


You assume incorrectly. I've got several post-op TG mates and the process of going through what they've been through, and keeping themselves and their sanity intact, means they're laid-back, easy-going types with great SoH.




I'm not sure "leery" is the right word DS.

I've less experience than RF (in this as in so much else <sighs>) but I once spent a dinner party evening with a MtF TG and she was one of the sweetest girls I've ever met (and physically attractive too). Her charming personality was an amazing achievement considering the ghastly angst and abuse she must have suffered over the years once she realised she was a girl in a man's body. So I can relate to RF's comment.




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RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 6:50:01 AM   
Nanako


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From: Glasgow, Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
OP, I'm the worst person to be answering your questions.  I'm thinking that you are actually looking for the Dominant male perspective on this one.

Well, I have a bit of bias for male doms. but if there were a "ask a master or mistress" forum, I would have posted it there ^_^

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 6:53:48 AM   
DesFIP


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Am I the only one who views a CD as a straight male interested in sex with women but defines gay males who dress as women as being in drag? I really don't think of them as having the same reasons for doing this. I assume that CDs cross dress as a fetish, that this arouses them. I don't think of drag queens in this light.

And I can understand why a straight male would say that he was looking for a full relationship with a female, including sexual relationships, and therefore a pre-op trans MtF would not fulfill him and be able to provide him with the full relationship of his dreams.


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RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 7:28:12 AM   
Nanako


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From: Glasgow, Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Am I the only one who views a CD as a straight male interested in sex with women but defines gay males who dress as women as being in drag? I really don't think of them as having the same reasons for doing this. I assume that CDs cross dress as a fetish, that this arouses them. I don't think of drag queens in this light.


CD and TV are pretty much the same thing. They are both about crossdressing on some frequency that is not 24/7, and don't say anything about sexuality

Drag is specifically a performance term. Someone "in drag" performs in some manner while ressed as the opposite sex, whether it be as a stripper, or part of a pantomime.



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RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 1:31:44 PM   
mythoclastic


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I like tgirls very much. My ideal sub is a MTF that looks like a hot girl, like the kind Thailand is famous for.

< Message edited by mythoclastic -- 2/13/2011 1:46:35 PM >

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RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 2:10:05 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako
It's not a trick question sir, but that was a trick answer. It's like if someone asks you, "what is an orange". A reasonable answer would be "an acidic citrus fruit surrounded in a thick skin, with soft edible flesh and seeds inside." but you've answered "an orange" which is a circular reference that doesn't explain anything.
Agreed... but that wasn't exactly the answer now was it?

The Question: How do I view Oranges
I view them as oranges. If you'd like a description of the characteristics of oranges, I'd be happy to give you that. But I do not see oranges as apples or pears although they share some similarities with both. Similarly, I do not see TG as either male or female. I see them as TG -- a 3rd category and one that, just like "men" doesn't trip my trigger. I do not think it's a "trick" answer to say "I see reality as reality". Some of us poor engineers actually do have brains which tend to think in literals.

Given that, I think I answered the question you were really asking (and clarified in your post above) -- I see TG as a third gender and TV as "needs further understanding to classify".

What's fascinating to me is what's going to happen in another 50-100 years (or less) when, just like in virtual reality, our gender in reality is much more malleable than it is now. At that point, the only thing I can think is that I'd do what I do online... someone is how they present.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 3:28:50 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mythoclastic

I like tgirls very much. My ideal sub is a MTF that looks like a hot girl, like the kind Thailand is famous for.


I would be interested in more detail to this answer sir, if you can.
What would make such a person your ideal ?

(in reply to mythoclastic)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 4:40:04 PM   
hausboy


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quote:

o offense, hausboy, but I think you just talked yourself into a corner here. I'm not trying to say that one category of people is more screwed up than another. What I will say is that if I were in the position that some folks have been, it would probably screw Me up. Especially if My family couldn't accept Me and I was no longer in the lives of My children and grandchildren like has happened to some folks who are trans. That's coming from Me who will generally say that I don't care what most people think. Losing My family though would mess Me up but good.

You said it yourself. You're stealth and don't have to deal with prejudices. What if you weren't and you had to? Are you really going to say that doesn't have an affect on people? I'm not exactly a blushing flower here, but I'd have to think it would affect Me.

I think if we're going to discuss the topic in fairness, you have to look at the whole picture. Not just the part where people are completely through transition and have created their new life on the other side.
]ORIGINAL: LadyPact


Hi LadyPact

I want to address what you've said here--because I believe what you've written is a very compassionate response.

My response to Steven was tongue-in-cheek---his comment that he felt that TG people would come with too many emotional issues made me reply and it was a bit glib--but given how many insane, unpleasant non-TG people there are, I felt that his generalization of TG people was not a fair portrait.

But since you have brought up very important and sensitive issues, I'll put my two cents in on it. Before transition, I can honestly say that my life was an utter and complete trainwreck.  I was dealing with addiction, depression, suicidal feelings, anxiety--I couldn't hold down a job, had serious issues with anger and rage, and most employers wouldn't give me a chance at a better job to better myself.  I was angry at the world because it just seemed like I would never get a fair shake at a normal life.

I was a young, ambiguously androgynous 20-something and the male-dominated occupations wouldn't hire me, or if they did, I couldn't advance--I had to deal with daily misogyny.  Every day, when I worked on loading docks and in warehouses, I had to hear men telling me that I had no business being in THEIR line of work.  When I went to temp agencies and tried to get office jobs which paid more, I was told that I didn't fit the description of what the employer wanted, and perhaps if I put on some makeup, grew out my hair and made myself more feminine, I'd be more marketable.

Discrimination?  It was always hell when I had to look for a new apartment, and when my girlfriend and I would go to restaurant, we became readily accustomed to being sat in the back, by the kitchen., even when the place was empty.  We confronted the manager once--we were told that he didn't want to "scare away" the customers.  I'll never forget being called "it"

This doesn't even include the number of times I was assaulted, chased by assailants, had objects thrown at me from moving cars, been thrown out of bars and restaurants "we don't serve your kind here"....and yes, one of those was a gay male leather bar....I had numerous  friends who were raped, assaulted--a few killed themselves, a few others overdosed unintentionally (I think).

When I finally transitioned, I continued my work with a really good therapist.  I knew going into transition that the hormones were no magic bullet, and so if I wanted to be less anxious and have fewer problems, good therapy was a necessity.  I lost friends.  Well, not really friends. Just a LOT of people who once called themselves my friends.  I lost my job--I was 2 shots into the process and had already come out at work--and I was handed a pink slip and a cardboard box to pack my belongings.

I was fortunate that my immediate family was there for me the entire time. (a few relatives disowned me but I'm well over it)  But my second family--I'm a volunteer firefighter--made life hell.  The misery and bigotry I endured as a lesbian firefighter was NOTHING compared to the ignorance I continue to face as a TG firefighter.  I'm still not over this loss--and I continue to deal with it on a weekly if not daily basis.

So there are two ways to go, as I see it.  I can hate the world for the way it treats transfolks, hate the universe for doing this to me and shut down emotionally.  Or I can take the other route--live a very full life, enjoy the gifts I have from my transition and live as the type of man I always admired.  Every single day I have on this earth, as a man, is a special precious gift, and I truly intend to make the most of each and every day I have.  I didn't go through hours of therapy, painful surgery and drain my bank account down to the last dime so that I could be miserable.

I've lobbied for Transgender civil rights--and we won them in Baltimore City.  I routinely address the State Board of Education to improve their anti-bullying laws and protect kids based on gender identity/expression.  For many years, I conducted sensitivity training for corporations, agencies and even State Govt to help them better understand and help Transgender clients and employees.  I even worked with the DC Metro police to help them improve treatment of TG prisoners.

So some may see it as "abusing male hetero privilege" but these days, I just want to blend into the wallpaper.  I've earned the right--and paid my dues--to sit in the front window of the cafe. The decent treatment I receive now--customer service, workplace treatment, greetings from strangers--there's no comparison to how my quality of life has improved.  I no longer suffer from the panic attacks, anxiety, neurosis, depression and thankfully, am not needing any medications.  I was able to enter into a new health career--one that puts many peoples lives into my hands--and I'm considered to be one of the top nationally in my area of expertise.  I could not have accomplished this had I not gone through what I've been through.

My experience is not unique.  So that's my long-winded diatribe.  There's no question that many transfolk endure countless more hardships than those who aren't.  But those of us with hard lives do not equal damaged goods.  For many of us, it has just made us stronger. 

thanks to those who read through this whole thing...

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 5:39:23 PM   
leadership527


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Thank you for sharing that hausboy.

Thank you.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to hausboy)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 5:44:16 PM   
mythoclastic


Posts: 15
Joined: 12/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

quote:

ORIGINAL: mythoclastic

I like tgirls very much. My ideal sub is a MTF that looks like a hot girl, like the kind Thailand is famous for.


I would be interested in more detail to this answer sir, if you can.
What would make such a person your ideal ?



Kinkwise, I want a submissive shy masochistic tgirl that likes to be degraded in a TPE relationship. Cosmetically, I'd prefer someone with naturally girly features that could later be enhanced through hormone therapy. I'd also prefer to avoid any surgery. This is the kind of person that would often be mistaken for female growing up, and an attractive one at that. Basically I'm looking for a "trap," as the internet defines it.

Will I actually find someone that meets all those qualities? Probably not.

< Message edited by mythoclastic -- 2/13/2011 5:45:00 PM >

(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 5:55:11 PM   
hausboy


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Joined: 9/5/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Thank you for sharing that hausboy.

Thank you.


Thanks for reading it. 

I know there are plenty of transgendered people that completely disagree with literally everything I've posted above.  So the viewpoints above are just mine.  There are some of people who identify as 3rd gender

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/13/2011 11:19:34 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mythoclastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

quote:

ORIGINAL: mythoclastic

I like tgirls very much. My ideal sub is a MTF that looks like a hot girl, like the kind Thailand is famous for.


I would be interested in more detail to this answer sir, if you can.
What would make such a person your ideal ?



Kinkwise, I want a submissive shy masochistic tgirl that likes to be degraded in a TPE relationship. Cosmetically, I'd prefer someone with naturally girly features that could later be enhanced through hormone therapy. I'd also prefer to avoid any surgery. This is the kind of person that would often be mistaken for female growing up, and an attractive one at that. Basically I'm looking for a "trap," as the internet defines it.

Will I actually find someone that meets all those qualities? Probably not.


I have no doubt at all that this person you seek exist. I've seen tens that mostly fit the description, there are probably tens of thousands of suitable people across the world. Whether you'll find them is down to you ^_^



(in reply to mythoclastic)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/14/2011 1:41:21 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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I'm not going to try to respond to each question, but I will make a general reply based on my experience with both TVs and Tgs who have over the years been part of my friend's circle. Now some of them have been sub/slaves and the few have been Dominants. One of the criticisms leveled at these folk over the years in my experience has been the propensity to become drama queens at the drop of a hat. It is possible that those who have been accomplished drama queens have all been involved in Show Biz, an occupation not the most stable at the best of times. The sexual orientation of a potential slave is of no regard to me if he/she fits my requirements, The emotional and mental stability of the potential slave is. I have no time in my home or life to cater to the whims of Drama Queens. My way would be to let them see me loading a shotgun and commenting that it is Drama Queen Buck Shot. Hopefully the dust hanging in the air over the road is the result of them taking the hint and departing rapidly doing a Wyl-e Coyote.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Your thoughts on trans subs? - 2/14/2011 2:13:50 PM   
strangedesire


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

I've encountered people that I read as male while dressed as men, and female while dressed as women, but they are somewhat rare.


What did they do to elicit this line of thought from you? Is it simply a matter of being convincing enough as the other gender ?



Hard to say, but I don't think it's that. (When I say that I read them as the other gender, I don't mean that they pass. That actually isn't necessary at all.) I suspect it's more that these people have strong masculine AND feminine sides, and they are comfortable with that enough to tap into both sides strongly. Neither gender feels forbidden, or uncomfortable, or scandalously transgressive, it's just a different side of who they are.

quote:


quote:

I've also run into people who cheerfully flaunt gender binaries. I like them.

This isn't quite clear. Did you mean "flout" or am I misunderstanding something ?



You're correct. Sorry about the tyop.

quote:


quote:


Red flag. Would you really want to be involved with someone who thinks of you as less of a person?

Perhaps so, but is that dynamic not fairly common in BDSM, of a sub/slave being treated as less than an ordinary human.. Certainly, I see lots of dominants of both genders professing that they would treat their partners this way.



I suspect that's mostly fantasy talk. Having real-world relationships with subhumans in hard.

quote:


I agree, wouldn't expect anyone to make that decision on my behalf. Helping on the journey is more what I meant



Glad to hear it.


_____________________________

On that other site as Exegesis.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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