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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Female Dominants


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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 10:46:05 PM   
OttersSwim


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Yea, it's not the brain chemistry that I am objecting to...it is the attitude that says that "no matter what you do, the truth of your very soul will never be valid in my eyes, you will always be X to me..." 

That is offensive, it is ignorant...and it makes me very very sad...

ADDITION:

When you are part of the majority, you’re considered normal, people don’t make sweeping generalizations about you, you don’t have to explain or defend your sense of self, your life, your love, your identity, you don’t have to work harder than other people in order to gain the same income, same respect, same rights, etcetera. 

Think about that...transfolk in all walks of life encounter this sort of thinking - "No matter what you do, you will always be a male/female/transgendered to me."  It is an offensive attempt to invalidate the core of the other person's very being by denying their very sense of self




< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 2/26/2011 10:54:57 PM >


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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:12:59 PM   
Elisabella


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What is your objection to being considered transgendered? You even have yourself listed as trans on your profile.

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:17:32 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
From a neurobiological and medical standpoint, that is absolutely correct.  Latest research very strongly suggests that an interruption in hormonal cascades during a crucial point in fetal development can cause the brain to become gender-wired one way while the body develops the sex characteristics of the opposite gender.  Postmortem studies on transgendered people's brains generally concur.  This is the simple medical truth.  No more and no less. 



Right, but that doesn't make them female, it means they have a neurological condition that makes them see themselves as female.



This is actually wrong. The benchmark isn't the neurological condition, but how one functions in society on an everyday basis and identifies themselves. It's gender acquisition or gender recognition, depending on which country you live in, and it's a fundamental human right protected on some level by legislation.

In some cases, for example in the United Kingdom, there is a specific act, i.e. the Gender Recognition Act 2004 but also in the UK and across Europe increasing the transgendered are being included in sex discrimination legislation.

That is what makes them female, irrespective of people's opinion, it is a fundamental human right protected by legislation.

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:21:03 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny
Some highly political Dommes may be glad to put politics first but that doesn't mean they speak for all women.


This isn't a politics issue.  It's a human rights issue, and it's about dealing compassionately and sanely with people who have medical problems with their bodies.  Clouding what should be a strictly medical issue with emotions and value judgments is where it gets ugly. 


quote:

I am not here to debate your identity but to bring to the attention of the community the surge in misrepresentative - or at the least 'insufficiently specific' - profiles. They are drowning out the minority, that rarest of rarities, the dominant woman with the double-x chromes.


If you liked only white women, would you scream about how awful it was that African-American ladies were allowed to post and drown out all the white women?  The world is made up of all different kinds of women, including some who are physically handicapped or have other medical problems from birth.  You don't get to dictate who is real and who isn't based on what gets your dick hard.

This is the Internet.  Nobody gives a fuck about what you want or what your search parameters are.  If you bitch and whine that there are too many people on the Internet who don't have the genetics you personally think are superior, no one is going to have the least bit of sympathy for you.  Mostly people are just going to think you are a whiny bitch.

Having a body and a brain wired for different genders due to hormonal cascade issues in fetal development is a pretty serious medical problem.  It's a handicap.  We get that you don't like handicapped women and you think they are fake.  What you don't seem to get is that continuing to insult women with this handicap is on the same moral level as telling someone who was born without arms or legs that they aren't a real human. 

Do you also not realize that you are seriously pissing off most of the XX chromosone femdoms on this thread by being remarkably insensitive to the medical problems of non-cisgender women?   They're human beings, for fuck's sake, and it is extremely hurtful to imply that the terrible struggles and pain they experience from having a brain that doesn't match their external body is something they choose just to annoy or deceive you.  It's not.  It's a real and serious medical issue.  Learn some respect for it, and some human compassion. 

Life is not all about what makes your own dick hard.  It's about respecting people's essential humanity and their right to be themselves, as much as they can be.  Stop thinking with your dick and consider what it would feel like to be born with that kind of handicap and have people insult you and refuse to recognize you as the human being you are.


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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:30:11 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny
Agreed - either female means something specific and innate about biological identity, or everyone is female and the word means nothing....


You seem unable to separate neural architecture from sex-determining chromosomes and external development of primary and secondary sexual characteristics.  Those are three completely different things.   In the vast majority of individuals, those three things will be completely congruent.  In a very small minority, they won't be, because something interrupts a hormonal cascade at a crucial moment during gestation.   So you can quite literally have a brain hardwired to be female in a body that gets switched over to being male, or vice versa. 

If someone took your brain and stuck it in a female body, would you then be female, or would you be male?  For that matter, if you were badly hurt and your brain was transferred to a robot body, would you still be human?  What constitutes human identity?  If not the brain, then where would you place it?


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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:40:14 PM   
YourToDeny


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The 'latest scientific breakthroughs' are just the latest version of our own personal stone age. Those are some pretty broad sweeping conclusions you are drawing from a very few little tea leaves. Some time in the future people will most likely call that 'crazy talk'.

Misrepresentation is the problem - pushing off as what submissive males are seeking and saying its okay just because you care little enough about women that you don't want them to have their own, inimitable sexual identity. Women have rights too! Just when you think men have run out of ways to keep diminishing their roles here comes another way.


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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:41:25 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
The transgendered brains were not female brains in a male body, but brains with a unique makeup that were similar to male in some areas and similar to female in another.


There are a limited number of studies at present, most of them flawed from lack of sample size.  But the ones that are currently published do have a lot to say about real and substantial differences in transgendered brains.  I don't have a link handy to the one I'm referencing on hormonal cascades during pregnancy hardwiring different parts of sexual development, including neural architecture.  But it is a doozy, and it has profound implications for the origins of transgenderism. 

Neurology is a pretty fucking complex field.  We can make some good guesses as to what parts of the brain hold gender identity, and which parts may be learned as opposed to hardwired.  But we don't know it all quite for sure yet.  Obviously there are substantial masculinizing influences on a fetus which is originally built around a female brain (and a hardwired female gender identity).  In addition to growing male sex organs, she's likely to have some degree of brain masculinization as well.  But the bottom line is that she's still female where it counts, eg, in the "human identity" part of her brain. 

If you have sufficient lack of compassion to deny her human identity, the one etched indelibly into the deepest part of her brain, there's not much I can say.  Except for fuck you. 


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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:44:42 PM   
YourToDeny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
The transgendered brains were not female brains in a male body, but brains with a unique makeup that were similar to male in some areas and similar to female in another.


There are a limited number of studies at present, most of them flawed from lack of sample size. 


Oh yeah but we should trust them like the gospel (ms rude person) and go ahead and start writing laws based on limited crude studies ahead of time.

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:45:53 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny
The 'latest scientific breakthroughs' are just the latest version of our own personal stone age. Those are some pretty broad sweeping conclusions you are drawing from a very few little tea leaves. Some time in the future people will most likely call that 'crazy talk'.


Actually I'm calling what you have to say ignorant talk.  I suspect you wouldn't know what a peer reviewed journal was if it came up and bit you on the ass, nor would you be capable of reading one.

If you think that you are speaking in any way for women's rights, THAT is definitely crazy talk. 


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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:47:15 PM   
YourToDeny


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quote:

If you think that you are speaking in any way for women's rights, THAT is definitely crazy talk. 

how would you know

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:50:43 PM   
juliadryad


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We are not people with a medical condition.
We are the men and women we say we are. It's very simple ;) Modern medicine can fix a lot of the sadness of a soul being born into the wrong form.
Still though, a long time ago , people who were transsexual were worshipped as holy. The different phase of our existence I think grants us unique insights.
Back to it all. Womanness, (or maleness in the case of FTM's), isn't determined for me by chromosomes. It's determined by lived life and a sense of a person's spirit. Looking like the person you really are is of course always a plus.
It's nice to see some support from genetic women. People can be very ignorant :)
I'm perfectly happy to be a transsexual woman apart from the annoyance of having to clean up the physical mess and deal with prejudice. I suppose these are big deals. I know for sure though, that it all works out ok and vaginoplasty gives me an acceptable end result.

< Message edited by juliadryad -- 2/26/2011 11:55:22 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:52:10 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny
Oh yeah but we should trust them like the gospel (ms rude person) and go ahead and start writing laws based on limited crude studies ahead of time.


The studies specifically done on transgendered brains were very far from crude, and there are enough related studies (eg, hormonal affect on fetal brain vs body development) that are impeccably peer reviewed and much broader based. 

What we should pay attention to is the general consensus of scientists whose business it is to be familiar with the material in this field and in related fields.  A limit in some specific areas of knowledge does not translate to ignorance of the field in general.  Except to people who really have no clue what they're talking about.


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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:54:23 PM   
YourToDeny


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quote:

The studies specifically done on transgendered brains were very far from crude, and there are enough related studies (eg, hormonal affect on fetal brain vs body development) that are impeccably peer reviewed and much broader based. 

We'll see how that consensus holds up...

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/26/2011 11:56:59 PM   
YourToDeny


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quote:

Back to it all. Womanness, (or maleness in the case of FTM's), isn't determined for me by chromosomes. It's determined by lived life and a sense of a person's spirit. Looking like the person you really are is of course always a plus.


Really woman-ness is not some abstract thing to be put on like a hat. There is a clearly marked "Trans" category - if there's nothing wrong with being trans (and there isn't) why is there supposed to be something wrong with selecting it when it is in fact the case.

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:02:28 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliadryad
We are not people with a medical condition.
We are the men and women we say we are. It's very simple ;) Modern medicine can fix a lot of the sadness of a soul being born into the wrong form.
Still though, a long time ago , people who were transsexual were worshipped as holy. The different phase of our existence I think grants us unique insights.
Back to it all. Womanness, (or maleness in the case of FTM's), isn't determined for me by chromosomes. It's determined by lived life and a sense of a person's spirit. Looking like the person you really are is of course always a plus.
It's nice to see some support from genetic women. People can be very ignorant :)


I tend to look at things from a straight science perspective.  You can't weigh or measure spirit in the lab, therefore I'm not personally all that interested in looking there for answers. It's fine if others do.

With respect, having the brain of one gender and the body of another *is* a medical condition, and one that deserves appropriate medical support and treatment (eg, SRS) so that the affected individuals can live normally as the gender they really are. 

Gender is more of a spectrum to me, and I've always felt like I should fall somewhere between the cracks rather than on either extreme end.  But yes, I'm a genetic female, and likely to remain that way. 


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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:08:05 AM   
juliadryad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourToDeny

quote:

Back to it all. Womanness, (or maleness in the case of FTM's), isn't determined for me by chromosomes. It's determined by lived life and a sense of a person's spirit. Looking like the person you really are is of course always a plus.


Really woman-ness is not some abstract thing to be put on like a hat.


Well . I've always been somewhat confused and suspicious of transvestites (which are distinctly different than transsexuals who just can't transition because it's not safe to do so workwise, or they're remaining in a role for family or partner). You really don't just put on a hat. I've lived oh, my entire adult life as a woman. I'm sure I've probably suffered because of it. This doesn't bother me. I am female.
I can generally tell when approaching someone whether they are one of my "sisters" (transfemale) , or not (transvestite). It's subtle, but there. It's a sense of self. Essence, character, wants, behavior, that kind of thing.

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RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:11:27 AM   
Arpig


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Not quite old enough to be your grandfather...my kids are all younger than you

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:15:26 AM   
Arpig


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Why? what does it really matter, why do you have the right to know it up front, and more to the point why does it matter if the cunt you fuck is natural or man-made?

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:18:05 AM   
juliadryad


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It is really actually not a medical condition. I think this is a cisgender error. Historically, we have put up with the classification of this to navigate the medical beaurocracy that has grown up to restrict access to technology (though it's amazingly easy to get breast implants.)
Gender theory 101 goes something like this. There are cisgender people and transgender people. Cisgender people are people who conform to societies expectations upon them because of their birth chromosomes. Transgender (gender variant) people are people who do not. Gender theory is somewhat of an extension of feminism. It says that right now, transgender people are an oppressed minority, and that basically , classifying people into roles based on birth chromosomes is silly and wrong. Somewhat similar in nature to feminism the arguement is that gender is largely irrelevant other than a personal preference (the core arguement of feminism, that men and women are equal, and should be treated equally) - not irrelevant in a "determining who you are and who you fall in love with sense",but irrelevant in a power-and societal roles sense).
To expand and elaborate on this also, the important insight is that your gender is not made up of your chromosomes. It's made up of your sense of self, how you act, the cues and clues you give off ect. I've always been very feminine. People used to think I was a girl when I was very young. Transgender liberation theory states that this is not a disorder at all, and that having it classified as such is oppressive. Transsexual people simply are natural. Gender variance is natural, like sexual orientation. It is cisgender people who impede and inhibit the lives of gender variant /transgender people - perhaps out of ignorance, perhaps fear, perhaps societal mis-notions.
I see myself as a transsexual woman. I am quite happy with my body. I'll be happy when I get vaginoplasty, and will experience a sense of peace. I am fairly pretty and after years look like I should. Being a submissive woman is probably a good thing - i tilt towards trying to love and understand and teach rather than be angry about the errors that people believe about us. I always tell people on first contact. I list myself as female, because I am female :) It's .. really that simple for me. The 'trans' segregation category is something i refuse as it does not come up usually in my regular life and after all I have given to be here and be myself it seems wrong to yet further condemn myself by constantly wearing a big sign. However, I do of course always tell people quickly as it is very important.

< Message edited by juliadryad -- 2/27/2011 12:25:23 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: TV's - No offense but please stop showing up as Fem... - 2/27/2011 12:19:42 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

I still don't see how "female" is *more* honest than "transgender" though. Generally "female" means having female chromosomes, whereas "transgender" is the most accurate term for someone whose mental gender doesn't match their physical gender.
chromosomes don't apply anymore...modern medicine can alter what chromosomes created. Yes if somebody is preop transexual then they should be up front about it...they can't really hide it, but once the surgery is done then what difference does it make...is a natural vagina any better than a man-made one>?

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