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"strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:07:09 AM

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A c-mail conversation bumped into this topic, and i imagine most people have encountered it, so i wanted to see what your thoughts were.

what is your initial thought when someone says s/he's a "strong submissive?"
why, do you think, it's thought that "submissive" and "strong" are automatically mutually exclusive?

personally i've met a lot of people who use "strong submissive" as a cover for otherwise unpleasant behavior. they're "opinionated" which usually means sticking their noses where they don't belong, "sassy" which usually means bitchy, etc etc. =p
on the other hand i've met really thoughtful, opinionated people, or sassy s-types who were cute, cheeky, and a joy to be around, who didn't feel the need to preface everything they do with "well i'm strong."

do you think the idea that submissve =/= strong is more common among those who haven't figured out how this all works out with their ideas on feminism? to me, and the thoughtful person i was yammering with, feminism is about the right to self-fulfillment, not necessarily being powerful in one particular way.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:11:48 AM

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i'm guessing he is a pushy bottom

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)

RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:11:49 AM

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It says to me not that they're unpleasant, but that they're tired of c mails demanding they kneel right now and sell their pets to move to some stranger. Strong is commonly used to denote someone who isn't a doormat in an attempt to get some common civility and respect from the hordes of guys sending c & p emails.

Beyond that, being submissive doesn't mean anything else but that. Some of us are strong, and some of us are weak. Some are cheeky and some are demure. None of these other characteristics means we are or aren't submissive. And although you enjoy someone who is cute and cheeky, others don't.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:12:43 AM

TotalDiscipline

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They can be strong..as in..allowing others to control them.
I respect that a lot in a sub or slave. I wouldn't be able to do that.

The other strong..as in bratty..overly stuborn and "need to be broken" ...are excuse for poor submission..in my opinion.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:26:51 AM

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Des - those examples were provided merely as two sides of a coin, not stating my personal preferences. there are people of nearly every "personality type" who are nice to be around, and those who aren't. this has nothing to do with my opinion, except where i've expressly stated so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalDiscipline
They can be strong..as in..allowing others to control them.
I respect that a lot in a sub or slave. I wouldn't be able to do that.

The other strong..as in bratty..overly stuborn and "need to be broken" ...are excuse for poor submission..in my opinion.

that's sorta how it works out for me, too. i don't see being strong and being submissive as completely exclusive things. i figure my character should speak for itself, rather than the other way around.
people have their own way of doing whatever they're doing, but often times, note: in my opinion, the "strong submissives" feel the need to lift themselves up at the expense of those who don't feel the need to identify as such. "strong" and "doormat/zombie" aren't the only options on the line. =p i have enough opinions to require a phalanx of dump trucks, i can hold my own against a lot of things both mentally and physically, but i also seek out M/s without the caveat of "i'm strong; is there any one on earth who's man enough to tame me?"

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 2/27/2011 5:27:41 AM >

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:30:30 AM

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I know, I just meant that there is no relationship between being cute and being submissive. That submissives, and dominants, come in all forms. Some love cheekiness, and some hate it. Both kinds are perfectly good subs for the right dominant. And the same goes for strong or weak subs, compatibility is most important.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:36:31 AM

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ah okay, i get what you're saying and, ultimately, i agree. there are all kinds, and no kind is better than any other kind. that's what i was trying to get at, not to illustrate that there's some nebulous relationship between being sub and being cute, or any other descriptor. =p

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:41:45 AM

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Whenever i read a profile that states "I am a STRONG submissive" my first thought is it translates to "We are going to do things MY way."

I do not want to be around passive doormats, but at the same time there is a huge red flag when one feels the need to vocalize their strength.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 5:43:57 AM

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quote:

there is no relationship between being cute and being submissive.

Ok..but you'd never know it from the submissives that post here....we are an adorable bunch!!

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 6:13:21 AM

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I think submissive's can be strong, but I will admit with some of the more unpleasant or scathing people I have wondered if that meant they weren't quite as accpeting of themselves...or even more to the point, i they were unwilling to *be* submissive, most likely shouldn't be giving out advice on how to do it right...

I suspect I've been guilty of that in some of my more jaded moments.

I don't like the idea of being being "broken". The words rings sourly for me, something violent, unpleasant and possibly abusive. But of course definitions do vary. I don't believe I'm a strong person; I'm simply a resilient one. I probably do fall into the category of stubborn subs though, since I require my Doms to be *more* than I am for me to have that type of respect from me. Why in the hell would I allow another person to take charge of my life if I can do it better?

Actually, more than absolutely anything else I've seen men searching for "Strong submissives", and for me that rings a something I avoid because more often than not it means they want to put in less effort, they want someone less clingy, less wanting, less needing. They don't want to put in the work they perceive a submissive needing so they say they are looking for someone strong...that won't perceive distance as neglectful. If that's the definition they can keep it, I'm pretty damn secure in my dependency issues. *snerk*

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 6:22:38 AM

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quote:

that's sorta how it works out for me, too. i don't see being strong and being submissive as completely exclusive things. i figure my character should speak for itself, rather than the other way around.
people have their own way of doing whatever they're doing, but often times, note: in my opinion, the "strong submissives" feel the need to lift themselves up at the expense of those who don't feel the need to identify as such. "strong" and "doormat/zombie" aren't the only options on the line. =p i have enough opinions to require a phalanx of dump trucks, i can hold my own against a lot of things both mentally and physically, but i also seek out M/s without the caveat of "i'm strong; is there any one on earth who's man enough to tame me?"

I believe strength can be an asset.
Perhaps they have a strength of character, an inner core of steel that creates the proper mind set which makes them determined to be the best submissive to their dominant.
Until you ask the person who makes such a statement what they mean by it, all else is conjecture and assumption.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 6:27:26 AM

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In terms of what I WANT, a "Strong Submissive" would be a girl who takes dominance over others in everyday life situations, but is in utter servitude to me.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 6:32:46 AM

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quote:

I believe strength can be an asset. Perhaps they have a strength of character, an inner core of steel that creates the proper mind set which makes them determined to be the best submissive to their dominant.

My opinion is along these lines, with strong = emotionally healthy and able to handle life's challenges.

(in reply to catize)

RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 6:39:31 AM

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quote:

It says to me not that they're unpleasant, but that they're tired of c mails demanding they kneel right now and sell their pets to move to some stranger. Strong is commonly used to denote someone who isn't a doormat in an attempt to get some common civility and respect from the hordes of guys sending c & p emails.

Thanks for the segue.

Random "master"'s first email to me:
You do not set the rules!!! I do!!! master R***.

My reply because I was bored (after reading his profile):
25 years of experience and you've learned nothing about negotiation with women who have not yet agreed to submit? Bah.

His reply:
You are definitely a phony!!! in this world of Dominance...many take a body!!! not many take a mind!!! there is no room for negotiating with a TRUE SUB!!! you do not need to respond SUB!!!

My response:
A woman who lists herself as submissive is not submissive to YOU until she agrees to submit. How much luck have you had with your current approach? Are you attracting quality or crazy?

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 6:41:03 AM

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it depends on your definition of strong. i am a lot stronger now that i ever was and to submit so fully to someone you have to have a strength in you, if you see strength as bratty, topping, bossiness etc then to me it doesnt necessarily make you strong or mean you are strong. master says to me that he would hate to do the things i do and to feel recieve pain he gives me says that he couldnt do it. also he couldnt submit to anyone with all thats involved, so he sees me as strong but a positive one and i gain some of my strength from him when in situations i think to what hes said or how he would handle it. his strength as a dominate is different to the strength to that of me the submissive.

(in reply to catize)

RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 6:48:27 AM

subtlebutterfly

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In my opinion, strong/weak falls into the same category as the "true" master/slave/mistress/sub.
Bullshit.
Just like all those definitions and labels people want to put on everything. You define things the way YOU want to define them. There is NO right and NO wrong. It is YOUR opinion, it is based on YOUR outlook on life, YOUR experience, YOUR believes.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 7:03:38 AM

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I don't quite understand the whole strong submissive thing. I admit I'm not that strong. I'm weak in many areas of my life, I'm the weaker power in our relationship. We are not equal, I am not strong, So I don't know what to think when I hear that term.

When people say to me after they hear about my life's trials and tribulations that I've been through, that I'm a strong person I just kinda shrug it off. I mean what am I supposed to do? It was either do what I had to do or literally die. Does that make me strong? I don't think so. It just means I had to live for other people who depended on me in life. It was either survive or die. How does that make me strong?

I guess when I hear people talk about a strong submissive I guess it makes me think they're trying to prove themselves, trying to make sure that no one just walks all over them. It seems to have become one of those new trendy things to say about yourself.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 7:05:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I believe strength can be an asset.
Perhaps they have a strength of character, an inner core of steel that creates the proper mind set which makes them determined to be the best submissive to their dominant.
Until you ask the person who makes such a statement what they mean by it, all else is conjecture and assumption.

i agree with you here, definitely catize (and your lovely avatar makes a gloomy today a little less gloomy =p)
i totally believe strength is an asset, and i'm not really saying otherwise, just wondering what other people think when they encounter it. i have definitely met those who ID as "strong" who really are, not just using it to cover up for unpleasant behavior.
so you are definitely right.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 7:58:07 AM

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~~Fast Reply~~
It ain't easy being submissive sometimes, and as Phoenixmoonn13 said, it can lead to greater strengths than one knew one had.
Kalikshama's post reminded me of an email I received a number of years ago; he said “firm Dom, here” and I asked if he was referring to tumescence or something else. He did have a sense of humor and appreciated my question. Despite the fact nothing much developed between us, I needed to clarify what he meant.
All I'm suggesting is that, if the words 'strong submissive' gives a dominant pause, then they need to ask instead of assuming. And I agree with DesFIP that compatibility is most important for any relationship to be viable.

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RE: "strong submissive"? - 2/27/2011 8:14:17 AM

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A submissive has two kinds of relationships: with his or her Dom/me (or a prospective Dom/me), and with everyone else.

If a sub seems strong to me and he's/she's not mine, then I have no cause to complain as long as he/she is mannerly. If my own sub is too strong for my liking, or too weak for that matter, it's my responsibility to correct the course.

Either way, a complaint about a strong sub likely indicates more about the complainer than the sub.

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