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The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 9:14:51 AM

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So given that it is accepted that the world appears to be going through a phase of religious conservatism at the present, and perhaps a reason for our lack of understanding and positive communication on the matter, what can be attributed to the rise of religious conservatism ?

I wondered if it was fear, the fact that the world in this age is moving fast, faster than it has ever done before and that because of our advanced communicational technologies, some people react badly to the change and so fortify conservatism in an attempt to slow down the change or in some cases reverse it. But in reversal, what does one reverse too, the actual situation or a supposed situation as the past is lost to most people given our limited lifespan on earth.

But, if we can understand why people turn to religion and make religion the only thing in life, perhaps we can understand where it is we in this world are going wrong, for we are going wrong and we live in an increasingly dangerous world, where very few people can destroy very many for the most stupidist of reasons.

Your thoughts ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 9:21:29 AM

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My thoughts are you are persecuting people for their beliefs before even discovering why they hold such beliefs... and setting up a negative permise that will have no possibility for a positive discussion or outcome.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 9:27:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My thoughts are you are persecuting people for their beliefs before even discovering why they hold such beliefs... and setting up a negative permise that will have no possibility for a positive discussion or outcome.

So, the standard template for religious discussion, then.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 9:33:48 AM

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I wouldn't say the world is going thru a phase of religious conservatism. I'd say almost the opposite. Parts of the world are going as far away as possible from religious conservatism and those who decide to stay in their own conservative world are getting REALLY pissed off and are determined to drag the rest of us back with them.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 9:41:23 AM

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It is a perfectly viable question and it is asked, because I wish to hear other's views so I can enhance or disregard what thoughts I have myself, and this is the Politics and Religion forum where such things are discussed. People's inability to hold proper conversation is a reflection on them, not the question.

Furthermore, I believe where there is contention, it must be examined and talked out, as without communication what hope have we ever to understand anything in life beyond what is soft, fluffy and palatable.

And just because certain subjects in the past have caused disruption, it is by no means saying the subject re-examined will follow along the same lines to the same conclusion, as people change, they mature and make peace with the things that once haunted them.

Even with those that hold to past ideas, they serve to educate others in what they say, a window on the past compared to the present and a judgement made open to further analysis, it is how we learn.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 9:51:01 AM

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I personally don't think that religious folks being conservative is new. What is new IMO is them being so active in politics.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 9:53:17 AM

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quote:

I wondered if it was fear, the fact that the world in this age is moving fast, faster than it has ever done before

I am both a religious conservative and a singularitarian. fear? not so much.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 10:20:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
What is new IMO is them being so active in politics.

C'mon, Steve. Prohibition? It's waves and cycles.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 11:40:58 AM

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I am generally of the view that when terms like "conservative" and "liberal" are applied to religion, whether by believers or non-believers, we have a clue that the subject isn't religion.

K.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 11:55:44 AM

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That is a good point, perhaps it is religion is coinciding with politics, but in essence religion is politics, as in the organisation of people with the same beliefs, religions are in fact political parties. And in the Islamic world political parties that vie and in some cases win the big seat are religious parties and we end up with countries run by theoracracies.

But in theoracracy can there be any sense, for an interpretation made by a religious and there political leader can go against all common sense, if the deity is said to have made the order. Basically according to whatever heresay x people will do this.

But in theoracracy is that just another tool for self erichment as is religion for some ?

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 12:22:58 PM

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I was watching that Huckabee guy on t.v. the other day.
He's a Baptist Minister "trying" to be a politician. If you vote for him as governor say you're going to get the Baptist Minister part as well!
And about gay marriage he said, "it just isn't a marriage." "Marriage is between a man and a woman.....blah, blah, blah."
He's incapable of seperating his religion from politics.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 12:30:31 PM

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In that case, should religion be seperated from politics ?

That is fine, have your own private belief, your spirituality, but do not bring it into politics, although I do suspect many of the decisions made by political leaders their religion has some bearing on it, as their religion is their moral guidelines for better or worse. What I personally have a problem with, is political leaders, presidents and prime ministers justifying their actions and beliefs by saying whatever deity wants them to do it. At that point a political leader to me loses all credibility and should be wheeled off to obscurity for being so stupid.

As long as deity worship and belief is open to question, it should not be brought into any decision where peoples lives and welfare is at question.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 12:38:03 PM

kdsub

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Can't you see where tazzygirl is coming from? In your post you equate religion with what is wrong and dangerous in this world...as opposed to your enlightened progressive advanced world of peace.

Yes I added words but the sound and meaning are the same...I just want you to understand how you sound to other people... especially those of faith.

Is this how you truly feel?

Butch

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/5/2011 5:30:58 PM

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And here lies the first problem, if we are unable to communicate even with those that share a common language, what hope have we of others who do not speak our language ?

But as in everything, where we are in the world, we must communicate with others,high level political agreement and the assurance of a military prescence is not the way to win hearts and minds, as to do anything by force or the threatening of force just creates enemies and the hampering of activities.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/6/2011 1:44:19 AM

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Tazzy I believe is aware that I am not too hot on organised belief: religion, for I have mentioned it elsewhere, in one of the contentious Israel/Palestine threads I believe, but maybe I forget. Perhaps it was with this knowledge of my past sayings that what was read and undertstood was tinged with negativity to start with.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/6/2011 8:46:38 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Tazzy I believe is aware that I am not too hot on organised belief: religion, for I have mentioned it elsewhere, in one of the contentious Israel/Palestine threads I believe, but maybe I forget. Perhaps it was with this knowledge of my past sayings that what was read and undertstood was tinged with negativity to start with.

I am aware... as I sometimes hold the same belief about "organized" religions. But your OP did not specify it was only in relation to the "organized" sectors. Many people turn to religious beliefs when times are hard... Not everyone who has a belief follows that belief to a church pew or mat.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/6/2011 10:03:25 AM

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My apologies, I was under the impression that a religion is organised belief, whereas private belief is just that, private.

From Wiki ;

The word religion is sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system, but religion differs from private belief in that it has a public aspect. Most religions have organized behaviors , including clerical hierarchies , a definition of what constitutes adherence or membership, congregations of laity , regular meetings or services for the purposes of veneration of a deity or for prayer , holy places (either natural or architectural), and/or scriptures . The practice of a religion may also include sermons , commemoration of the activities of a god or gods , sacrifices , festivals , feasts , trance , initiations , funerary services , matrimonial services , meditation , music , art , dance , public service , or other aspects of human culture.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)

RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/6/2011 6:43:58 PM

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quote:

you equate religion with what is wrong and dangerous in this world

Quote the language where he said that.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/6/2011 7:07:49 PM

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quote:

how you sound to other people... especially those of faith.

And "people of faith" are entitled to be shielded from things that might sound unpleasant to them?

Have you ever heard of the 1st amendment?   Do you realize that we are fighting over that very issue, whether we should be kissing the asses of religious zealots?   Do you think we want another bunch of religious paranoid schizophrenics running our government?

Faith is belief in the absence of evidence. It's inherently irrational. Sure life is irrational, but that is not any way to get along with anybody.   So the faithful should just sequester themselves where they don't have to see telescopes and discussions that the earth probably rotates around the sun.

Our founding fathers did not want us involved in intramural religious wars, as Europe had been for centuries.   They were pretty damn smart in that respect.

You have to be pretty oblivious to history to miss the fact that various religions are regularly used to rationalize wars, and avoid learning.    As we speak, one of the largest and oldest christian denominations is trying to explain why they conspired at the highest levels to conceal widespread child abuse.   Another much larger religion is used to rationalize stoning women, and using children as suicide bombs to kill masses of innocent bystanders. Then we can talk about the Scientologists, and Fred Phelps, and the Mormons, and god knows what other unusual insanity.

Yeah, the world is getting overpopulated, so we need more faithful people to blow each other away.   Preferably before they fuck the neighbor children.

Of course I expect the faithful to put out a fatwa on me.   If they were competent, they would probably be able to assassinate me sooner or later.    But I have such confidence in their incompetence, that I'm not going to bother to arm myself and blow their lemming asses away when they try.   I have to say, that is a fight I would enjoy.

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RE: The Rise of Religious Conservatism ? - 3/6/2011 7:21:33 PM

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quote:

Your thoughts ?

I'm very skeptical of inexact studies, like sociology.

But your hypothesis is probably right, as far as you can generalize about people. When things seem to be going wrong, people don't say, let's try something new - they fall back on any type of traditional irrationality. Magic is what got our grampappy out of trouble, magic will get us out of trouble too.

You can see quite clearly that many people don't want to think about it, they want to be led around by the nose, preferably by people who are abusing their children.

(in reply to Aneirin)

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