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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 8:48:13 AM

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What the fuck is your point, you're on about nothing of substance or value, and nothing that is in law, or has to do with the constitution or even america.

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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 8:54:34 AM

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definitions of the words from the dictionaries of the precise time the constitution was written is irrelevant in your mind huh?

thats almost as funny as when jlf thinks the king will sign off of anything without saying he will divest himself of all right title and interest! LMAO

Kings are really dumb that way. They do not know how to make a legal document.

paris 1783

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 8:57:41 AM

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right, since framers was in use and used in regards to the constitutions writers at the time.

what was the meaning of the word clueless in or around that time? If I assume a resemblence to todays usage, it still doesn't have commerce with our constitution.

But you are clueless. I don't think constitutionally so, just in its ordinary sense.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 3/31/2011 8:58:39 AM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 9:08:38 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So the constitution although a wonderful and well thought out piece of writing that could guard a nation's future is in fact bearing less and less relevance in the real world due to the interpretation and reinterpretation that goes on in the courts of law.

No... The Constitution serves us well...it means the same today as it meant when written. Many times over the years attempts to change its meaning through interpretation have failed. These challenges may take hold for a time but in the end the wisdom and truth of the document prevail.

Now if only the people that live under it's guidance had the same wisdom.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 9:14:10 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So the constitution although a wonderful and well thought out piece of writing that could guard a nation's future is in fact bearing less and less relevance in the real world due to the interpretation and reinterpretation that goes on in the courts of law.

No... The Constitution serves us well...it means the same today as it meant when written. Many times over the years attempts to change its meaning through interpretation have failed. These challenges may take hold for a time but in the end the wisdom and truth of the document prevail.

Now if only the people that live under it's guidance had the same wisdom.

Butch

its nothing but a god damned piece of paper!!!!

G W Bush

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 9:38:06 AM

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A perfect example of a good thread gone bad...RealOne showed up to teach us all about Constitutional Law.
Fuck ,this thread could have been interesting,as it is...I will just stay away

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 9:43:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Would America be in better shape if the original words of the Constitution were adhered to without reinterpretation ?

I ask as my understanding of the need to interpret and reinterpret, is a failure to understand what is, or a need to justify other agenda.

To me, it seems just as bizarre that you would *not* understand. (That's not a reflection on you, but the fact that the two countries must be very different.)

In the U.K., is there no high court that reviews the legality of laws?

If you have no constitution, does that mean every law is legal, until it is repealed? What happens when a bad law gets passed? Do people just have to live with it, until there's enough political pressure to change it? What happens when a corrupt majority starts oppressing a minority? Can they pass any law that they like? What's stopping them?

How can you make laws without having a written guide for what's legal?

Could a case like Brown vs the Board of Education have happened in the U.K.? How would they have gone about fixing such a bad law, if there *had* been segregation?

How can any court make a ruling without first interpreting the wording of the applicable law? i take it for granted that *all* words (legal or not) must be interpreted before they can be understood.

Do you have any laws that have been around for 200 years? How were they phrased?

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 3/31/2011 9:59:19 AM >

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 10:46:02 AM

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England does not have a written constitution. The government operates by a set of traditions (common law) and a variety of laws and aggreements dating back to the Magna Carta. Much theoretical power held by the House of Lords and the monarh is not exercised so as to avoid having the public demand a written constitution.

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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 11:35:23 AM

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Really,Ken..that is interesting.I was aware of most of it...but that last part about not exercising power actually held so as to avoid a backlash.
That's actually cool....a much different version of checks and balances than we have ,heh?

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 12:09:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So the constitution although a wonderful and well thought out piece of writing that could guard a nation's future is in fact bearing less and less relevance in the real world due to the interpretation and reinterpretation that goes on in the courts of law.

Why do such well though out words need to be reinterpreted in this modern world, was the plain speech of the original constitution not good enough ? ( and I note in the original constitution lawful terminology is actually defined in the constitiution) ?

Would America be in better shape if the original words of the Constitution were adhered to without reinterpretation ?

I ask as my understanding of the need to interpret and reinterpret, is a failure to understand what is, or a need to justify other agenda.

The words of the Constitution were deliberately vague to allow for societal changes.

But some believe in the document the way many believe in the Bible.

Typical liberal/progressive misinformation.

The words of the Constitution were deliberately precise to prevent "interpretation" due to here today/gone tomorrow societal agendas.

Some want to interpret it rather than ammend it, per it, in order to futher their societal agendas.

(in reply to rulemylife)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 12:11:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So the constitution although a wonderful and well thought out piece of writing that could guard a nation's future is in fact bearing less and less relevance in the real world due to the interpretation and reinterpretation that goes on in the courts of law.

No... The Constitution serves us well...it means the same today as it meant when written. Many times over the years attempts to change its meaning through interpretation have failed. These challenges may take hold for a time but in the end the wisdom and truth of the document prevail.

Now if only the people that live under it's guidance had the same wisdom.

Butch

its nothing but a god damned piece of paper!!!!

G W Bush

"It's a flawed document"

Barack HUSSEIN Obama

(in reply to Real0ne)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 12:11:42 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

Typical liberal/progressive misinformation.

The words of the Constitution were deliberately precise to prevent "interpretation" due to here today/gone tomorrow societal agendas.

Some want to interpret it rather than ammend it, per it, in order to futher their societal agendas.

natural born citizen.

QED

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 12:45:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09

Not word for word. It is taught in the 8th grade, and students take a nationwide test to demonstrate their understanding of the U.S. Constitution. i don't think there's any penalty, besides a bad grade, if they fail.

Really? Its been a while since Ive had an 8th grader, but afair there is a DOE requirement for a one day seminar on the Constitution but no testing or proficiency requirements.

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Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 12:59:48 PM

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A few years ago Obama (pre Presidency) could have explained the Constitution in a way that wasn't self serving, hypocritical, and twisted.

There has been "change" though and apparently the "Decider's" interpretation of the US Constitution has been adopted by Obama.

Ultimately the US Constitution is interpreted by Judges. If Congress is too spineless to challenge or impeach a hypocritical lawless President then, unfortunately, the US Constitution means what the President says it means.

< Message edited by isoladyboss -- 3/31/2011 1:00:22 PM >

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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 1:01:31 PM

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apparent only to you, and various and sundry other imbicilic nutsuckers.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 1:02:49 PM

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She is amusing,isn't she?

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 1:17:33 PM

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It is a short document that anyone who is literate can read. I expect that anyone who takes their US citizenship at all seriously would have read it, know what it means, and understand this basis for their government. It is not required to read. It has been adhered to largely and still is mostly. The interpretation of it is done through court cases. What room for disagreement there is, those disagreements translate into suits that are decided by judges.

Everyone is supposed to know it according to the idea of self governance. That idea is above the heads of the majority of US citizens. That is the fatal flaw of democracy. Great idea in theory but in practice with people free to remain ignorant, they do and so there goes the practical reality.

(in reply to Aneirin)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 1:25:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Really,Ken..that is interesting.I was aware of most of it...but that last part about not exercising power actually held so as to avoid a backlash.
That's actually cool....a much different version of checks and balances than we have ,heh?

Up until fairly recently the House of Lords and the monarch both could hold up, essentially veto, any law, I think they finally changed things so only the monmarch can stop a new law while the lords can simply delay it. The monarch is also entitled to dismiss the government and hold new elections.

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 1:31:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
Typical liberal/progressive misinformation.

The words of the Constitution were deliberately precise to prevent "interpretation" due to here today/gone tomorrow societal agendas.

Some want to interpret it rather than ammend it, per it, in order to futher their societal agendas.

Of course this is untrue. For instance the Framers made a fundamental mistake in not giving the Judicial branch the explicit ability to review the constitutionality of legislation. It wasn't until 1803, with most of the Framers still alive, that SCOTUS asserted the right to judicially review legislation derived from the language of Article III.

(in reply to RacerJim)

RE: The American Constitution ? - 3/31/2011 1:33:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

apparent only to you, and various and sundry other imbicilic (sic) nutsuckers.

So are you saying Obama hasn't taken the US to war without Congressional approval (its a kenetic action), or that the President has the right to unilaterally declare war (barring an imminent threat) or perhaps you're taking more nuanced approach to Constitutional interpretation?

Obama's statement as a Congressman on the President's Constitutional obligations was as follows:

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation."

Its about the only truthful/correct thing Obama has ever said.

If Obama wins a second term, Congress will likely have a bigger GOP presence and Impeachment proceedings may right some of the abuses of the Obama administration.

In any event you probably meant imbecilic as opposed to imbicilic (sic).

Attacks on someone's intelligence lose a bit of meaning when the attacker can't spell big words like imbecilic.

< Message edited by isoladyboss -- 3/31/2011 1:34:57 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)

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