RE: Why is the Quran Buring News?

RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/7/2011 11:19:12 PM)
quote: FatDomDaddy Tell me.... exactly HOW did Jones know this? What on eartrh could possibly lead him to believe the followers of The Religion of Peace could possibility do such a thing? If Jones wished to make a point about Islam he had an awful lots of options open to him. He could have written a book, a newspaper article, a speech. a letter to the editor and so on. These are the usual methods people who wish to make a polemical point in a civilised manner adopt. Jones did not choose any of the methods people who wish to make a polemical point in a civilised manner adopt. He chose to burn a book Muslims rightly or wrongly venerate and regard as sacred. There is only one reason to make a choice like this - to wound and insult Muslims as deeply as possible. He wanted to make Muslims look intolerant, violent and uncivilised. His was a deliberate calculated measured insult, malicious and vicious. He knew very well what the likely response would be. That is precisely what he hoped to trigger. He acted in the full knowledge that there would be a reaction - his actions were designed to inflame that reaction as much as he could. Just in case ppl are still holding open the possibility he wasn't aware of the consequences, Pres Obama, La Clinton, the media Gen Petreaus and others all alerted him to the likely consequences prior to him burning the Koran. To then claim Jones is free from any responsibility for the consequences of his actions is at best, ingenuous in the extreme. His choice of action, and his actions all confirm he knew there would be a connection between his actions and Muslims' reactions. To argue that he didn't is to render Jones' gesture meaningless - Jones wouldn't agree. Most likely he'd hate you for making that argument. Jones knew what he wanted, set out to get it and in fact produced exactly the kind of outcome he had sought from the get go. He is culpable. We can discuss the degree of his culpability - that is a matter of opinion. But there can be no doubt that he is culpable.

NiceGuyNihilist -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/8/2011 10:30:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle If Jones wished to make a point about Islam he had an awful lots of options open to him. He could have written a book, a newspaper article, a speech. a letter to the editor and so on. These are the usual methods people who wish to make a polemical point in a civilised manner adopt. If you think opposing Islam with a pen or keyboard rather than fire and kerosene is an effective safeguard against Islamic violence, allow me to introduce you to Salman Rushdie. And Sam Harris. And Christopher Hitchens. Want more examples? There's no question Jones deliberately kicked a hornets' nest. I never argued otherwise, so those who have been at pains to make the point that he did kick one are arguing with somebody other than me. What's more important--or should be more important--is the implication that radical Muslims (in other words, those Muslims who take the Koran most seriously) have the morality of hornets. Decide for yourself how you will deal with such people. As for me, I will not yield an inch to them, particularly when it means a tacit slap-in-the-face to less violent religions. I fully support Jones's action--though if I were given the choice between living under his Christianity and the Taliban's Islam, I might just flip a coin.

thishereboi -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/8/2011 10:47:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: FatDomDaddy Tell me.... exactly HOW did Jones know this? What on eartrh could possibly lead him to believe the followers of The Religion of Peace could possibility do such a thing? If Jones wished to make a point about Islam he had an awful lots of options open to him. He could have written a book, a newspaper article, a speech. a letter to the editor and so on. These are the usual methods people who wish to make a polemical point in a civilised manner adopt. You may be on to something. Perhaps if he had drawn a cartoon instead. That certainly couldn't have caused anyone to get upset, right?[8\|]

kdsub -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/8/2011 10:55:33 AM)
I find it hard to understand why you think that because we find his actions criminal we are forgiving the murderers? Any action that knowingly incites murder should be criminal...To me at least it has nothing to do with the Koran or Christianity. Please separate your feelings about religion and concentrate on justice for those that were murdered. Butch

NiceGuyNihilist -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/8/2011 11:23:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub you think that because we find his actions criminal we are forgiving the murderers? Exactly how did you extract that from my words? quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Any action that knowingly incites murder should be criminal...To me at least it has nothing to do with the Koran or Christianity. Please separate your feelings about religion and concentrate on justice for those that were murdered. What is the difference between Terry Jones and Salman Rushdie, other than the talent required to write a book rather than set one on fire? Anyone sufficiently familiar with Islamic culture to write The Satanic Verses must have known full well that the publication of such a book would result in violence. If you believe Jones should be put on trial for inciting violence while Rushdie gets a pass, you should explain why.

Edwynn -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/8/2011 11:52:20 AM)
He doesn't need to explain a thing. If explaining anything in reasonable rather than in Molotov cocktail terms ever made its way to your consciousness heretofore you'd have well understood the distinction and the difference between the years-long and introspective struggle involved in the Western/Arab acknowledged intellect and social commentator Rushdie's message to people of his own vs. some poop-next-to-where-he-eats dimwit small tent revivalist wacko (Jones)who figured out just how stupid the US (and only to a slightly lesser extent 'worldwide') media were and found his way to further enrich himself thereby. As I've said before, the only polite way to put is "f#ck you and go away. Do not ask, much less demand, that anyone bother to explain what is miles above your simpleton pin-sized head. You missed it the first few hundred times, I don't think that the 843rd explanation will do anymore good, and don't tell me that you don't know this to be the case also, your commiseration with Jones' underlying burning for attention not being overlooked at all here.

kdsub -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/8/2011 11:56:40 AM)
Because you are linking this mans actions to radical Islam exclusively. Would you still stand by this mans right to incite murder if he were using racial slurs? You see this man knowingly incited murder and you cannot separate the incitement from your personal beliefs on religion. I would like you to forget Islam…and Rushdie and ask yourself…did this man for whatever reason incite murder? Butch

Edwynn -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/8/2011 12:12:59 PM)
Thank you Butch, but just to keep things more legally precise, "did this man for whatever reason 'knowingly and with malice aforethought' incite murder?" Being that the further distinction is easily proven in this instance, I'm all for being more precise here.

slvemike4u -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/8/2011 2:39:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NiceGuyNihilist quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub you think that because we find his actions criminal we are forgiving the murderers? Exactly how did you extract that from my words? quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Any action that knowingly incites murder should be criminal...To me at least it has nothing to do with the Koran or Christianity. Please separate your feelings about religion and concentrate on justice for those that were murdered. What is the difference between Terry Jones and Salman Rushdie, other than the talent required to write a book rather than set one on fire? Anyone sufficiently familiar with Islamic culture to write The Satanic Verses must have known full well that the publication of such a book would result in violence. If you believe Jones should be put on trial for inciting violence while Rushdie gets a pass, you should explain why. There was purpose to Rushdie's writing...it is called art for a reason.There is purpose in creating something where before there was blank paper. There was/is no good purpose connected to destruction,which is all the burning of a book...reduced to its most basic form ...is. This isn't that hard to understand....Rushdie brought forth something from nothing! Jones brought forth nothing from something,save ash...and the inevitable,though out of proportion ,reaction.

kissheels -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 4:26:40 AM)
not saying jones is right to burn the quran, but why is it accepted that muslims burn Bibles by the truck load all over the world,and no one ever says anything about it..

ashjor911 -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 5:16:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kissheels not saying jones is right to burn the quran, but why is it accepted that muslims burn Bibles by the truck load all over the world,and no one ever says anything about it.. I done believe that is tru, If it a simple evedence would be nice.

Edwynn -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 5:50:39 AM)
Why are you asking for evidence? It's obvious that idiots like these have no use for evidence of anything, so they probably would not have any if you asked. The point is to just say whatever idiotic thing comes to mind. Anything resembling facts only interferes with that.

ashjor911 -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 6:23:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn Why are you asking for evidence? If you have a Body & a weapon you got a murder & killer, If you got a killer & weapon without a body you have a lie that you are trying to make, & you have no idea how many people reading this post without you knowing they did, Its important to let them know it was a lie & he fot no evidence to proove it. & he would not bring this up again.

tweakabelle -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 7:10:32 AM)
quote: NiceGuyNihilist What's more important--or should be more important--is the implication that radical Muslims (in other words, those Muslims who take the Koran most seriously) have the morality of hornets. If you think a radical Muslim equates to any Muslim who takes the Koran seriously, you are seriouly mistaken I'm afraid. There are about 1.5 billion Muslims in world. The overwhelming majority of them despise the radicals - exactly like the overwhelming majority of Americans Christians despise Phelps and WBC. The Joneses and the mullahs of this world threaten us all. Stop wasting your bravado on trash like Jones and understand who your real enemy is. Why the West is unpopular in Muslim lands? It might just be connected to the fact the we have armies fighting two wars there uninvited, unwanted and unliked. And killing, inadvertently, lots of Muslim civilians. Every day. Every week. Every year since Bush the Dumber launched the Iraq fiasco. There are lots more reasons but that's a good place to start. That is the kind of thing that empowers the extremists over there. Defending Jones empowers their equivalents here. Is that what you want?

Kirata -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 7:17:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 I done believe that is tru, If it a simple evedence would be nice. Much as you might like to believe otherwise, neither side has a lot to be proud of... Persecution of Christians in the Muslim world: 1989 to Present In fairness though, demonstrations such as Bible burnings do seem to be rare -- compared to church burnings and outright murder. K.

Kirata -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 7:47:45 AM)
The above said, it has been observed in these forums that much preached and done in the name of "Christianity" does not reflect core Christian values, and the same is no less true of actions attributed to "Muslims". "Responding to an assault is not by carrying out another assault, as this is discouraged in Islam .... Moreover, we, as Muslims, are required to show respect to and believe in the divinely-revealed books and all preceding prophets. If a person insults Jesus (peace be upon him), I, as a Muslim, should feel annoyed by this and act in his defense. This is what happened upon the release of a film which attacked Jesus: Muslims living in the country where the film was shown reacted angrily in protest. We believe in and highly respect all prophets and messengers, including Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all).... The noble Koran even goes further and forbids us from cursing the pagans' idols, saying: (And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance.) (Al-An`am 6:108)." ~ Yusuf al-Qaradawi K.

FullCircle -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 7:59:15 AM)
Modern houses should be lined with religious texts, then people will take fire safety seriously. The modern terrorists fighting soldier should wear the Koran defence suit. Made out of 100% certified Koran it is essential wear in all terrorist hotspots around the globe. It's ingenious design prevent firing upon it through fear of a reaction from god. All the terrorists become paralysed in self doubt as to if the Koran will allow them to fire upon the Koran in the name of Jihad. I'm putting this idea out there and am leaving Lockheed Martin free to fully develop it.

kdsub -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 8:32:14 AM)
All you have to do is run a search on Youtube and you can see it with your own eyes... But not to worry as this Muslim expert is saying burning the Koran is much much much worse then burning the Bible because the Koran is the word of God while the Bible is just written by men... yea...that’s fair don't you think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KOnsHYwkqw Butch

kissheels -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 10:09:05 AM)
How do you make the difference between radical mulims and normal ones, when we all know they hide in plain sight, attend universitys,run buinesses work as doctors ect, until untill they get the call from who or whatever, and go out and murder 100s and 100s of people, since 9/11 how many cells have been dismantled, and the neighbors first reaction was " oh my God i never knew' they seemed like such nice people, you cross them on the street and never know, until its too late and they blow themselfs up along with everyone around them http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2010/08/26/khurram-sher-montreal-mcgill-grad.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2010/08/26/ottawa-rcmp-arrest-folo.html the real irony is that on 9/11 the Islamic Center of Northeast Florida will be distributing free Qurans as a way to educate others about their religion. You may know that doing the same with Bibles in almost all Muslim countries will get you arrested, tortured, or killed. But you've got to hand it to Muslims, they do have a sense of humor. Giving out Qurans on 9/11 is like Nazis including a copy of Mein Kampf with the towel to Jews as they go to take a shower. Muslims are so funny. as for Bible burnings.... http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/285123/christians_in_gaza_fear_for_their_lives.html

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Why is the Quran Buring News? (4/9/2011 11:03:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 I done believe that is tru, If it a simple evedence would be nice. Well???

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