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RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 4:29:12 AM

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~fast reply from yet another diabetic to no one in particular~

I came across an interesting article this weekend in the NYTimes.... "Is Sugar Toxic" by Gary Taubes.

I've learned, after having this dis-ease for over a decade, that what works for me may not work for others and visa versa. My most recent A1c was 5.7 down from 6.3 and if I continue with what I'm doing I hope my next will be closer to 5.0. My average numbers are 70-90...this is my comfort zone where I feel the best. I got there through no help of a nutritionist. The one I visited was more concerned with the cost of my food (I choose quality over quanity) than with what actually would work for me. When she whipped out a list of foods that were mostly packaged/processed/"sugar-free" and "low-fat" I just tuned her out.

I like real food....ya know, the kind that you grow in the earth instead of "create" in a factory.

(in reply to DeviantlyD)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 5:09:05 AM

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quote:

"Is Sugar Toxic" by Gary Taubes.

If Lustig is right, then our excessive consumption of sugar is the primary reason that the numbers of obese and diabetic Americans have skyrocketed in the past 30 years. But his argument implies more than that. If Lustig is right, it would mean that sugar is also the likely dietary cause of several other chronic ailments widely considered to be diseases of Western lifestyles — heart disease, hypertension and many common cancers among them.

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 5:50:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

"Diabetes choices" Really? After making such a hulabaloo about "right" foods, are you seriously implying that diabetes can be caused by too much sugar? By the way, the answer is a resounding NO.

Neither are any foods, on their own causes of obesity. While each person is certainly entitled to their own food choices, i.e. Vegetarian, atkins, the zone, all organic, etc. all things in moderation are fine. I would even go so far as to say it is highly possible to eaat a bowl of fruit loops every day of their life and still be healthy and not obese.

In any case, this thread is about DIABETES, not your personal battles about the marketing of processed foods.

Um, from all I have read, Type 2 diabetes is caused by a mix of factors - too little exercise, genetic factors, and, yes, excess sugars.

Obesity is caused by similar stuff - lack of exercise (well, low metabolism brought about by that), excess foods, wrong foods, and genetic predisposition.

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RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 5:50:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

"Is Sugar Toxic" by Gary Taubes.

If Lustig is right, then our excessive consumption of sugar is the primary reason that the numbers of obese and diabetic Americans have skyrocketed in the past 30 years. But his argument implies more than that. If Lustig is right, it would mean that sugar is also the likely dietary cause of several other chronic ailments widely considered to be diseases of Western lifestyles — heart disease, hypertension and many common cancers among them.

Bingo!

Of course, this is just one of many studies all with various and differing conclusions. I'm a strong believer in being an informed patient. The more informed you are, the better choices you (general sense) can make as a healthcare consumer.

Mind you...this isn't me beating the "lose weight and you're cured" drum. In fact, I know that to not always be the case, which is why I said...what works for me might not work for someone else and visa versa.

Example.....I had a doctor recommend I start running as a form of exercise. This was after he had supposedly reviewed my records which contain a list of my past foot surgeries due to RA and bouts of Charcot Foot. Being the informed patient that I am, I knew that running would lead to more damage/surgery/possible amputation and I simply thanked him for his time, told him he was wrong and left.

Moral of the story...doctors aren't the be all and end all, they are there to work with you not alone.

Rant over...have a great day everyone. Eat something green today and move your body....you'll feel better.

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 4/19/2011 5:51:13 AM >

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 7:14:31 AM

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DS,
Any diabetes educator will tell you eating sugar does not cause diabetes. If it did, think of all the children who would be diabetic after Halloween! Or how about people who eat great amounts of fruit? To the diabetic, as you well know, sugar is sugar, whether it comes from a bowl of fruit loops or a pound of grapes. The "excess sugars" come into play when one's body, due to other factors, can't process them properly.

My point is, everyone has to do what works for them. For some, being vegatarian is their choice, other macrobiotic diets or eating all organic. Still others might choose frozen meals like Jenny Craig, Nutrisystem or just LeanCuisines, which are in the "processed" group but work for people who want predetermined portion control. Still others make a conscious choice to increase their insulin so they can eat what they want. Likewise with the exercise issue. As mentioned above, it isn't that unusual for a doctor to recommend forms of exercise that don't consider a patient's other health issues. My doctor recommended walking. Afterwards, the pain because of other injuries sent me to bed for two days. Not pleasant.

I just find it obnoxious when someone presents their diet or what they do as the best way to go. Most people have just said, "hey I did this and it worked," without presenting as the be all, end all solution, just what worked for them. Guess the whole "my way is THE way" that can run rampant here is getting on my nerves. For the record that isn't directed at you.

I'm a die hard meat eater but i have never tried to convince my vegetarian friends to become carnivores and they don't try to convince me to stop eating meat.

(in reply to BonesFromAsh)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 7:17:36 AM

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My understanding, LL, is that Type 2 diabetes is not caused by single incidents of sugar excess, but sugar excess repeated over time. In conjunction with other factors, of course.

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RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 9:28:55 AM

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Allow me to reframe - if a mother came on here and said, my diabetic child doesn't like to eat in the morning so I give her a shot of insulin and some Froot Loops, would you laud this as good parenting? Or would you offer other suggestions? IMO, this is the SAME THING Heather is doing to her inner child.

I'm not saying "my way is the right way" at all. All I mentioned regarding my way is that I too am not hungry in the morning so make smoothies which are portable and can be consumed when I do get hungry. My objection is to Froot Loops, which to me is eponymous to a dietary lifestyle that can lead to diabetes.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 9:38:27 AM

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Really bad analogy. How adults deal with their issues (as long as there is no harm to others-within reason) is not equal to how one treats their children. The example you gave potentially rises to the level of abuse.

I agree upping insulin to cover bad food choices is unhealthy. Regardless of the nutrtitional value, I enjoy Fruity Pebbles and Captain CrunchBerries. I adjust my diet when I want them, or chocolate or cake. If I were insulin dependant, I would view things differently, I'm sure.

I wait about an hour after waking up to eat breakfast, that's what works for me.

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 12:46:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

"Diabetes choices" Really? After making such a hulabaloo about "right" foods, are you seriously implying that diabetes can be caused by too much sugar? By the way, the answer is a resounding NO.

Neither are any foods, on their own causes of obesity. While each person is certainly entitled to their own food choices, i.e. Vegetarian, atkins, the zone, all organic, etc. all things in moderation are fine. I would even go so far as to say it is highly possible to eaat a bowl of fruit loops every day of their life and still be healthy and not obese.

In any case, this thread is about DIABETES, not your personal battles about the marketing of processed foods.

Um, from all I have read, Type 2 diabetes is caused by a mix of factors - too little exercise, genetic factors, and, yes, excess sugars.

Obesity is caused by similar stuff - lack of exercise (well, low metabolism brought about by that), excess foods, wrong foods, and genetic predisposition.

Some medications actually make one more prone to type II diabetes.
Some psychiatric medications used for a variety of illnesses carry an increased risk.

Beta-blockers do as well, and people on corticosteriods can have a dramatic rise in their blood sugars, sometimes necessitating medical interventions.

Statins have also been implicated, raising the risk by 9%.

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RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 7:42:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh

Example.....I had a doctor recommend I start running as a form of exercise. This was after he had supposedly reviewed my records which contain a list of my past foot surgeries due to RA and bouts of Charcot Foot. Being the informed patient that I am, I knew that running would lead to more damage/surgery/possible amputation and I simply thanked him for his time, told him he was wrong and left.

Moral of the story...doctors aren't the be all and end all, they are there to work with you not alone.

I know that doctor! Same one who handed me pills and said take two of these every day for a week. "What are they?" says I. "Anti-biotics." says he. "Yes, what kind?" says I. "Amoxicillin," says he. I drop them like they are on fire. "Did you read my chart?" says I. "Yes of course," says he whilst picking up the package of pills. "So you are comfortable giving me a medication that I'm allergic to and that causes anaphylactic shock?" says I. "Oh." says he.

Long live the sun!

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RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 9:48:49 PM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

Allow me to reframe - if a mother came on here and said, my diabetic child doesn't like to eat in the morning so I give her a shot of insulin and some Froot Loops, would you laud this as good parenting? Or would you offer other suggestions? IMO, this is the SAME THING Heather is doing to her inner child.

First of all, I don't have an "inner child". I am only 18, but ALL of me is 18, there's no 8 year old hiding inside me. Sorry, but that whole idea has always bugged me.

As to adding a unit or two of insulin, are you an endocrinologist? Because that is exactly what every endocrinologist and nutritionist I have consulted has advised me to do. My blood sugar levels have not been out of the normal range in several years. So no, I wouldn't offer other suggestions based on iffy internet reports. I would indeed call it good parenting.

Giving bad advice to people with a serious medical condition that requires continuous monitoring and maintenance is very irresponsible. Please, if you don't know what you are talking about, then don't give advice. You could seriously harm somebody who listened to you. I do know what I am talking about, but even so I recommended that maybemaybenot discuss the program with her medical team, rather than just adopt it.

I do thank you for your concern, and your input, but under the circumstances, I think I'll continue to follow my diabetes team's advice. I hope you understand.

Heather

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RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 11:06:21 PM

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Nice job HannaLyn. I must agree, this inner child issue is, well completely out of the park. You didn't bitch, neither will I, that is an opinion. So is everything in a way. Here's mine.

Insulin is something which you might adjust the dosage based on a blood sugar reading. There can't be much psychological about that. It's different than being a junkie, and really I think alot of junkies would take a better option than the needle if one were available. Hooked psychologically (mostly in the beginning) , this is the method of delivery. If it is said that one is hooked physiologically, that is a whole different thing.

Now that we got that out of the way.... My Paternal Grandmother became diabetic later in life. I was young and didn't get a whole lot of details but I heard things. We kids were allowed to hang with the grups. They said that if diabetic, things can be done, but once you take that shot the first time you have to for the rest of your life. Believe me I mean no insult or anything, but the truth is that they considered this abhorrent. Further, so do I. If they ever told me that I would be dependent on a drugstore for life I would consider carefully what I would do. I would scramble for ANYTHING that worked, something I can get without "them".

I was very lucky over the years in that I avoided the intervention of doctors almost completely. I haven't had even an aspirin in thirty years, or anything until recently. I was taught differently somehow, and partly by what I sought. Sure I drink, party. Drugs are for recreation and I have absolutely no faith in them being able to cure anything, almost. I walked into a hospital with a bullet wound and I told them straight out that I was not to be given pain killers or sedatives of any kind. I was taught that pain is what impels your body to repair itself. Not that I go hitting myself in the head with a hammer or anything, but if a bullet wound doesn't warrant a painkiller to me, what would ?

But this is about insulin so I will get back on topic. What if it's true ? That when you take intravenous insulin the pancreas then starts to relax, and like a muscle it then atrophies ? What if these old folk were right ? They seemed to live pretty long and didn't go to the doctor all the time. Yearly checkups my arse, it was when you broke your leg or something.

So now, I'm doing the cataract thing, and a couple of years ago I got exposed to some mold which made me very sick. So now I need a workup before surgery and I did have a checkup. They said I could live another fifty years . I smoke and smoke. I've been drinking for forty years. I can count on one hand the recreational drugs I haven't done. I've eaten bad at times, but good, really good at other times. In retrospect I see how diet did change my level of health and fitness.

In all these years I have researched, dismissing the quackery and vetting everything I could, I have my way. It seems to work. I think when I got sick that might've killed someone else. Up until recently I only had antibiotics three times in my life. When I get a cut it only gets a bandaid if it really bad. I don't even attempt to sterilize it. I have not had a cut get infected since I was little. Other things maybe, but just breaking the skin doesn't seem to do it.

Understand though, that if I had broken my leg at Grampa's and Grandma's the doctor's office was in walking distance. You may chuckle. How you gonna walk with that broken leg ? But somebody would give you a ride in an Oldsmobile and even pay the $25. That's how it was. But then I had a great Aunt I never met because she died during cataract surgery. This was a while back.

But all that I have absorbed leads me to one inexplicable conclusion : You are what you eat. All the things it takes to build a human body, you need to ingest. Period. You are born what, eight pounds ? What do you weigh now ? Where do you think that came from ?

Which led me to the problem which is that the food is lacking in essential nutrients. Senate document 264 was not full of crap. Veterinary medicine has the traced the same and similar diseases in animals which also occur in humans. This is fact. If you are a pig on a farm somewhere in Iowa, you are not getting a kidney transplant. This has impelled animal husbandry science to take a different direction. And they don't lie, the motive is profit.

But now back to you are what you eat. Sure bones and flesh, but what supports that ? The organs are a very complex machine. This machine needs all of it's parts to function correctly, logical ? Well these parts are formed from what we eat which is broken down into molecules and reformed into those parts and the fuel or whatever to operate those parts.

When you're young you are small and ingest alot, so you can get almost enough nutrients. Plus the fact that you stole a bunch of nutrients from your Mother, in the womb. Ever hear of gestational diabetes ? Why does that go away by itself all the sudden ?

See I am beyond all this HG^2cm./3 crap. It's not needed to study every molecule of something to understand it's properties. And then when you talk about something as complex as the body, overcomplication is counterproductive.

Wouldn't you say ?

T^T

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/19/2011 11:46:39 PM

HannahLynHeather

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That's very interesting Termyn8tor. However what I told kalikshama goes quadruple for you. Please don't give medical advice when you have no idea what you are talking about. You could kill somebody.

My diabetes was discovered when I went into a diabetic coma and ended up in ICU. Without insulin, I would have died. Without insulin now, I will die. Insulin is an essential component of your body's digestive system, and unfortunately my system does not produce it. Without injecting insulin, I will be unable to process the glucose in my blood. it will accumulate until I go into a coma and die.

Please, Please, PLEASE. Do not give medical advise. You have no idea what you are talking about, and if I were to follow your advice I would be dead within at most 2 months. I am not exaggerating. Those are the facts of Type I Diabetes (thanks DarkSteven for the earlier clarification, I didn't comment, but I did notice).

We are not talking about aspirin or headaches, we are talking about a deadly disease that can kill very surely and quickly.

In addition there are many other serious complications to it. If I do not keep my glucose levels in order, I may go blind, or lose my feet or hands. Insulin is not an option for a person like me, it is a requirement, it is what keeps me alive.

Heather

_____________________________

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i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/20/2011 12:22:41 AM

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I understand what you mean.

What constitutes medical advice ? I am saying to give the body what it needs and to avoid what is harmful. That is my base assertion along with the fact that a properly working human body can and will heal itself, if it has what it needs.

There are exceptions, but the OP is borderline. If my advice is to not eat five pounds of sugar a day, is that medical advice ?

I think that in the early stages of a disease or condition like this, it is important to remember that at one time you were just fine. Why not now ? Again, there are exceptions. But what's the surprise when puppy chow is more nutritious than Enfamil ?

Enough. Did you see me changing somebody's prescription from amoxcillin to acromycillin or something ? I didn't do that. I did not and will not put Dr in front of my name, even if they allow it. And I thought this was an adult site. You take my advice or leave it. The internet advice police are not going to bang down the door. If I took all the advice and/or whatever I got on the internet I would probably be in jail on the moon.

Be cool.

T^T

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/20/2011 3:43:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Heather -very briefly, a Type 1 has an underactive pancreas. The only solution is to take insulin. A Type 2 has a fine pancreas producing insulin, but the cells don't uptake the sugar properly. That can be fixed with exercise, diet, and medications. Both have the same effect of excess sugar in the blood and too little sugar in cells.

Generally, Type 1 begins early in life and Type 2 shows up later.

To flesh out DS's comments...Type II diabetes is also referred to as insulin resistant diabetes. For reasons not completely understood, but related to genetic disposition and oftentimes body fat content, insulin does not do its job of helping glucose into the body's cells. This causes blood glucose levels to increase due to the fact they are not taken up by various cells and the pancreas is signalled to produce even more insulin to help glucose enter the cells, which have become resistant to it. So it's a vicious cycle of sorts. Eventually the pancreas may lose its ability to make insulin. Some type II diabetics are able to control their condition through diet and lifestyle choices and don't need to take insulin. Other type II diabetics do require insulin.

Type I diabetics is a result of an autoimmune disease where the individual's body creates antibodies that destroy beta cells, that are cells within the pancreas that produce insulin. Without insulin producing cells, the body can no longer make insulin, necessary for life and requires insulin, so all type I diabetics require insulin to live.

That's it, in a simplified nutshell.

...there is a practically hot off the presses research study that shows autoimmunity may be a component in type II diabetes as well...very interesting read...

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_111085.html

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/20/2011 4:14:03 AM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

The internet advice police are not going to bang down the door. If I took all the advice and/or whatever I got on the internet I would probably be in jail on the moon.

I see. You are going to spout dangerous bullshit that if believed could kill somebody, and if anybody is stupid enough to listen to you, then that's just their problem? Do I have that right?
I have only one thing to say to you: GO FUCK YOURSELF!!

Sorry to all the rest of you for the uncharacteristic outburst, but it had to be said. I feel much better now.

Heather

_____________________________

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i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to Termyn8or)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/20/2011 4:34:04 AM

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Y'know... sometimes we just share what has or has not worked for us as individuals, and once you get to know the people that post on these forums on a regular basis, you learn to take some of the posts with a grain of salt or salt substitute.

You also learn to take some of the advise as pretty much on the spot.

For instance, I would never recommend to an insulin dependant diabetic to take a couple of extra units of insulin and eat a bowl of fruit loops, just because it "works for me".

I'm not a fan of breakfast foods, myself. Today's breakfast was an 2 egg omelette with leftover chicken and broccoli from last night's supper, with a splash of hot sauce. I have alot of appointments scheduled for today and know I won't have time for a proper lunch, so there's a couple of laughing cow cheese squares and some crackers in my purse. I'll check my blood sugar when I get home from work and decide between a fajita salad or 2 slices of cheese pizza for tonight's dinner.

As we learn what does or does not work for us, we each learn to adjust our dietary choices accordingly.

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(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/20/2011 4:50:14 AM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

For instance, I would never recommend to an insulin dependant diabetic to take a couple of extra units of insulin and eat a bowl of fruit loops, just because it "works for me".

As I said in an earlier post. I don't do it because it "works for me". I do it because that was the advice of my diabetes team. Not just one of them, all of them. Not just here in Ottawa, but back home as well. That's over a dozen medical personnel who specialize in diabetes treatment. I would not do it on my own!

Heather

_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to purepleasure)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/20/2011 5:17:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

The internet advice police are not going to bang down the door. If I took all the advice and/or whatever I got on the internet I would probably be in jail on the moon.
I see. You are going to spout dangerous bullshit that if believed could kill somebody, and if anybody is stupid enough to listen to you, then that's just their problem? Do I have that right?
I have only one thing to say to you: GO FUCK YOURSELF!!

Sorry to all the rest of you for the uncharacteristic outburst, but it had to be said. I feel much better now.

Heather

Hi Heather...haven't had a chance to say welcome to you and Hannah as of yet....welcome to the boards.

You're absolutly right in that we need to be cautious in taking others advice, be it friends or random strangers on the internet, regarding important matters such as treatment for life threatening conditions like diabetes.
That being said, as I alluded to in my previous post, an informed patient is a good patient. There's a wealth of knowledge...useful and otherwise...to be found on these interwebs and it pays to not be too full of blind faith and trust when gathering info.
I generally run what I've researched by my endo to get her opinion and then, depending on her imput, I either research further or let the idea drop. In the end, though, it falls to me, as the adult patient, to decide what's best for my dis-ease.

I've gotten some amazingly helpful advice from folks on CM (gosh, I miss Level...no there's a man who knew his stuff when it came to diabetes and nutrition), but I've also read some downright dangerous ideas from people who claimed they knew what they were talking about. No matter...it still falls to me, as the adult, to uncover the truth from the lies and to not be so gulible.

I think, the longer you're on CM, the more you'll come to realize there are a few intelligent people around here who're pretty good at being skeptical when need be.

Now, for anyone interested, I'd like to offer a link to a site that has been very helpful to me in regards to the care and feeding of my diabetes-dragon... http://www.tudiabetes.org/

(in reply to HannahLynHeather)

RE: Frustrated Diabetic - 4/20/2011 5:18:00 AM

Arpig

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For what it's worth, I do things exactly the same way Heather does. Also on the advice of my medical team. I guess its just the way they manage it in this part of the world when you are not doing the carb-counting.

And Termy, old bean, I luvs ya, but...what Heather said!

Now that I think of it, both the team at the Civic Hospital where I was in ICU, and the permanent team at the Riverside Hospital said to do things that way.

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