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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/18/2011 10:51:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

What difference does it make who or what is considered the guiding principle behind the process?

Effectively, it doesn't make a difference.

But humans like to effect policies towards certain sides when they can special plead a sentient impetus into a process that doesn't have/need one.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 12:02:48 AM

Arpig

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quote:

Effectively, it doesn't make a difference.

But humans like to effect policies towards certain sides when they can special plead a sentient impetus into a process that doesn't have/need one.

Agreed NZ, but if it makes no difference, and it gives them comfort to do so, then why not let them. It does no harm and does not detract from the essential correctness of the theory, and by doing so it allows otherwise unenlightened folks to understand how the process of life actually works.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 12:13:32 AM

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quote:

Tweakabelle:

Everyone else has managed to not even touch on being argumentative about whether creationism is possible. They provided answers to my question. I am not looking for anyone to prove one is better or more logical than the other. Perhaps you can start your own post on that subject.

If you can't see the merit of applying the same standard to two 'conflicting' explanations, that's your choice.

If you find yourself resenting the suggestion that you ought to use the same standards, you might like to ponder that .... at your leisure.

Best wishes whichever way you go.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 12:40:40 AM

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Both, evolution and creation are possible at the same time. The consciousness and the morphogenesis are not understood.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 12:52:10 AM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Both, evolution and creation are possible at the same time.........

Agreed, what's one day (timewise) to God?

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 1:16:16 AM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

If you can't see the merit of applying the same standard to two 'conflicting' explanations

i don't see them as being in conflict at all. they are unrelated.

the one is an idea based on reality backed up by reason and logic, supported by decades of careful observation, extensive experience and repeated experimentation.

the other is a fairy tale promulgated by the holders of an irrational belief system grounded in fear and delusion and the inability to accept real responsibility for one's life.

as i said, they are unrelated.

hannah lynn

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 8:27:46 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

What the Catholic schools taught was a bastardized version of evolution in which God is the guiding hand behind it.
And how does that alter the facts of the theory? What difference does it make who or what is considered the guiding principle behind the process?

It does alter it because you are blending what has scientific evidence to support it with your belief system, which has no evidence other than faith.

You are teaching children that what science cannot fully explain is because God is acting in his mysterious ways, and that tends to dampen scientific inquiry when you stop seeking natural explanations when it is much easier to claim it cannot be explained because it is supernatural.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 8:37:11 AM

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Tweakabelle,

The point, if you get off your high horse, is I fully understand the creationism view. Hence, no questions. I said right at the beginning that this wasn't about debating one over the other. It wasn't to rehash the philosophical "God question."

hannahlynn,

People like you are always quick to insult Christians by calling them ignorant and foolish. No one here is telling you how God will punish you for your stupidity, ignorance or arrogance, yete you can't resist insulting those who don't share you beliefs.

Funny when you think how many atheists complain about Christians trying to shove God down their throat when people like you are always trying to show people who do believe in God hows wrong they are.

The philosophical "God question" will NEVER be answered with any factual certainty. You choose not to believe a "higher power" had a hand in the universe, fine. Try to show some class about it and not resort to insulting those who don't share your belief system.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 8:54:44 AM

HannahLynHeather

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if you don't want your belief system ridiculed, then either adopt one that makes sense or keep it to yourself.

quote:

People like you are always quick to insult Christians by calling them ignorant and foolish.

that's because their belief system shows them to be so. i was not trying to insult anyone, merely stating the obvious. if you find my remarks insulting, tough shit. you and your feelings are not my affair, they are yours.

quote:

No one here is telling you how God will punish you for your stupidity, ignorance or arrogance,

i won't be punished. your god, like the boogeyman, is a fiction, and honey baby, fiction ain't real, it can't punish anybody. you are the one who does the punishing, not some imaginary asshole-in-the-sky.

quote:

people like you are always trying to show people who do believe in God hows wrong they are

you're welcome. i do it because i'm just a nice girl.

quote:

The philosophical "God question" will NEVER be answered with any factual certainty.

oh but it has. repeatedly. i am right, you are wrong. accept that fact and your life will be richer and more rewarding for it.

quote:

You choose not to believe a "higher power" had a hand in the universe

it is not a matter of choosing. there is no such "higher power" therefore it could not possibly have a hand in anything. it's just the way things really are. one day you too will grow up and realize this.

quote:

Try to show some class about it and not resort to insulting those who don't share your belief system

where is the class in allowing a blatant lie to be maintained? where is the class in allowing exploitation and systematic mental and emotional abuse on a massive scale to be perpetuated?

what i find most interesting is that while i didn't say which was which in my post...you recognized the 2nd as your beliefs. interesting, and perhaps just a little telling, no?

hannah lynn

< Message edited by HannahLynHeather -- 4/19/2011 9:00:41 AM >

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 9:08:50 AM

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Adopt a belief system that makes sense to who? You? That is the arrogance of youth. Wait til you have been on this planet for a while before thinking someone needs to make sense to you. Right now you sound like the whiney kid you are.

Last time I checked in The World Book of Who's Responsible for Telling People What's Realor Not, your name didn't show up.

Your completely inflammatory statement (calling God an asshole in the sky) were just that, an attempt to inflame and incite. Only result was proving you completely lack class. But feel free to continue to shout from the rooftops and entertain us and show us you are totally classless. It's a free country. You know what they say, "no one knows you're an asshole until you open your mouth."

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 4/19/2011 9:14:28 AM >

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 9:19:02 AM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

You probaly tell little kids that there is no Santa Claus.

of course i do. i don't believe in lying to people, especially not children.

quote:

Last time I checked in The World Book of Who's Responsible for Telling People What's Realor Not, your name didn't show up.

that's because you're using last year's edition.

quote:

Your completely inflammatory statement (calling God an asshole in the sky) were just that, an attempt to inflame and incite.

no dear, i was simply stating the facts as they exist. i called him an "asshole-in-the-sky" because that is what your belief system presents him as. some heavenly entity who metes out eternal torture and suffering for even a single moment of human frailty.

quote:

Only result was proving you completely lack class.

sorry, but lying and allowing a lie to stand are not my definition of class. neither is catering to the infantile beliefs of others. like i said before, if you don't want your beliefs ridiculed either adopt beliefs that make sense or keep them to yourself.

quote:

But feel free to continue to shout from the rooftops and entertain us and show us you are totally classless. It's a free country. You know what they say, "no one knows you're an asshole until you open your mouth."

i never said i wasn't an asshole now did i?

hannah lynn

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 9:24:54 AM

HannahLynHeather

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quote:

Adopt a belief system that makes sense to who? You? That is the arrogance of youth. Wait til you have been on this planet for a while before thinking someone needs to make sense to you. Right now you sound like the whiney kid you are.

of course to me. who else's understanding would i be talking about?

i see when i am older i will have the right to require things to be sensible, but until then i am to just accept the ridiculous as true because my elders say it is so. pray tell me at what age do i gain this right to have the world actually make sense.

and the only person on this thread whining, my dear, is you.

hannah lynn

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 9:39:28 AM

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sharks and frogs aside:
evolution in the 19th and 20th century: certain butterflies exist in 2 varieties, a brighter on and a dark one. They usually rest on treebark, prefering birchtrees.
In the 19th century when coal was burnt in huge amounts and trees were sooty all over the bright variety was easily spotted by birds and eaten mostly, so the number of dark specimens grew disproportionately.

In the late 20th century after turning to less sooty heating and abolishing steam railway etc. the soot didnt turn the birchbarks black any more, so the darker variety gets more easily spotted by birds, and the number of brighter specimens is growing again.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 9:50:57 AM

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A child trying to patronize me with the term"dear?" Yep, grow up a bit. Then you won't act so infantile.

Unless it is YOUR child, you have no business instilling your beliefs on children. Wish I could be present when you tell some 5 year old there is no Santa and the kid's parents give you the bitch slapping you deserve.

As for what others teach their children, when my mother died, the only thing that coomforted my son was that his beloved Nana was in heaven with the angels. A kid in his class had parents like you and their kid told my son there was no God. It did NOT go well for them. Think about that when some parent is beating you to a pulp for thinking it is your "duty" to spread your beliefs.

Now, in the true spirit of a Christian....you may have abandoned God, but God has not abandoned you.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 9:53:59 AM

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Evolution for me. Ever since I was alittle kid, its fascinated me, Especially whales /dolphins. About a year ago I watched a program where a whale was beached on the irish coast I believe it was and they had a specialist basically cut it open and find various body parts for further inspection, one of the most important finds was that the whale had vestigal legs, which proved the hypothesis(so they said) that whales were once land mammals that moved back into the sea, there was also something in its throat or air passage that was only found in land mammals.Now they believe that the closest relative to the whale is a hippo. I believe they have done the same with dolphins.
I cannot buy the bible version however.... the abundance of species and adaptations are just so incredible Im an avid watcher of all things David Attenborough, just for the sheer beauty of mother earth and her inhabitants, I dont know, I believe in evolution , but I dont think I want to know, Im enjoying the marvels thankyou very much

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 9:54:31 AM

Aylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

You probaly tell little kids that there is no Santa Claus.
of course i do. i don't believe in lying to people, especially not children.

What the HELL do you mean that there is NO Santa?

Sorry for the hijack.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 10:04:38 AM

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first off, i suggest you follow your own advice, honey sweety cuddley poo, grow up and stop believing in fairy tales.

if you wish to bullshit your children and lie to them, by all means do so. however do not expect others to conform to your deceit. i am not afraid of any "bitch slapping" or of some parent "beating me to a pulp". i've had far worse than you or they could possibly dish out and i am still here to tell the tale. so you got pissed off when a child exposed your lie? perhaps the fact that a mere child could see through your deceit should tell you something eh?

i did not abandon god, one can only abandon things which exist.

quote:

Now, in the true spirit of a Christian

that's rich!!! this from the person who wishes to see me bitch slapped and beaten to a pulp. its clear that you cannot even conduct yourself by the beliefs you profess.

hannah lynn

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 10:12:17 AM

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If you studied the bible, and compared it to what is happening in the world today you might form a different opinion. God has offered so much proof, just in my lifetime, I don't see how one cannot believe. I think your just mad because, laying with the same sex is a sin, according to the bible. If you don't believe that is your loss, I have never been happier.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 10:19:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Agreed NZ, but if it makes no difference, and it gives them comfort to do so, then why not let them.

Psychologically and personally, I agree with you here. What concerns me is the fact that many don't dissociate what "feels right" and what is right (materialistically speaking). It's as if the emotional value of a concept alone isn't enough for them and then they try to liberally apply realistic value to it as well...and even that would be fine, except in cases where it becomes so prevalent that it affects important areas of life involving others (e.g. attempting to make space to include "creationism" in public school curricula).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

It does no harm and does not detract from the essential correctness of the theory, and by doing so it allows otherwise unenlightened folks to understand how the process of life actually works.

Sugar-coating the "ew!" vegetables of life?

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 4/19/2011 10:28:27 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Funny when you think how many atheists complain about Christians trying to shove God down their throat when people like you are always trying to show people who do believe in God hows wrong they are.

Well, it's factual in numerous cases.

This illustrates many people's inability to understand that "wrong" has many different contextual meanings.

There are indeed atheists that will try to tell you that X belief is "wrong for you" (speaking emotionally), and they'd be treading on potentially foolish ground to do so (despite the propensity for fanatic zealotry to adhere to the religion-flavor of personal imagination).

However, there are topics where the belief in a theistic god will nearly automatically lead the person to a "wrong" answer about that topic.

Some atheists do revel in the aggression of pointing out errors wrought from theism by using more volatile adjectives, but despite that, the points made about it are typically accurate. Many fervent theists do have an ignorance of understanding when it comes to scientific topics that explain our universe...an ignorance that often gets filled with older metaphysical ideas from ancient mythologies.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 4/19/2011 10:39:01 AM >

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