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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/8/2011 11:16:43 PM

lickenforyou

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quote:

raisim

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Ah, but what is the difference between raisim and raisin? (Just a quick test to see who is more superior, t or l. First one to supply the correct answer is more superior. Someone tell me whether t gave the correct answer.)

One isn't a word?

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 12:03:44 AM

Rule

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I ain't saying anything yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou
your lack of understanding, and misuse, of words and phrases leads me to believe that I probably am intellectually superior to you. Being male I am probably physically superior to you in strength and speed. You may be superior to me in some ways, I don't know.

You at least are sufficiently intellectually superior to have responded first. But perchance t will demonstrate to have been more intellectually superior by not having responded first. Saffy?

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 12:06:06 AM

imperatrixx

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Saffy?

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 12:09:29 AM

Rule

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It is what Captain Jack Sparrow frequently asks in the various Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 12:12:00 AM

tazzygirl

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Thats not "saffy" its "savvy".

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 12:14:17 AM

imperatrixx

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lol

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 12:32:37 AM

paulmcuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Pff, I provided you with exactly the evidence you wished for: "a big voice heard around the world in all languages saying "I am God".

Well, no you didn't. Not really sure what what point you're trying to make here if you're seriously suggesting that typing words on a message board in English equates to a voice heard all around the world in all languages.

quote:

I guess that you cannot read the transcript of a court session either?

You cannot hear nor see / read. There is no satisfying you.

I gave an example of what might satisfy me which has, as yet, not been provided. You seem to be saying that written words of a human are an adequate replacement for direct verbal communication from god. That's clearly enough for some people - it's why we have religion - but it's merely enough for faith, it is a billion miles from anything remotely resembling proof.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulmcuk
2. Any god worthy of the name could do the translation himself. As you say, you can get an app for your iPhone that will do translations nowadays.

So you admit that I am god (as I can do that)? Revelation is upon you! Rejoice!

I admit that you are capable of buying a translation app. As far as I know, this does not require godlike powers.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 12:40:39 AM

paulmcuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

In any case, it is impossible to convert animals. Consequently the only way to introduce religious progress is to have those killed who cannot / refuse to convert.

An excellent argument in support of atheism.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 12:57:11 AM

paulmcuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

The Divine manifests its existence daily. Lots of people are aware of it. Why aren't you, grasshopper? (That was a reference to the 70s series Kung Fu.)

Actually what is in question is not the Divine's imagination, but yours in discerning the Divine.

Which brings us back to proof. You say it's there but cannot prove it. I say that nothing that exists requires a divine explanation but cannot prove it because, again, it is impossible to prove a negative. People see the divine because they want to.

(And I am familiar with Kwai Chang Caine)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

That is because you assume volition on the part of the Divine. There is none. Only the inhabitants of our universe have volition or some kind of analogue. I dunno, but perchance even rocks have some rudimentary volition; they fall, don't they, obeying universal laws.

Most events that occur are simply automatic programs that routinely run for dozens, hundreds or billions of years already.

I don't assume anything on the part of the divine. Most religions, however, do declare that things (indeed, everything) happens because their god wills it. It is that position I am arguing against. If you're content with a god/divine that simply set things running and went to tend his garden without intervening in how things turned out then you and I have little to argue about. I may not believe in that version of god, but I'm really only bothered about the ones that try and tell us how to live.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 1:06:41 AM

lickenforyou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

No worries, Im woman enough to admit when im wrong. I looked back and the reference was misquoted. Which is all cool.

But, for those who wish to see a more "learned" discussion about the Delusion of Superiority

OK, I clicked your link. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take the word of some Indian self help huckster. Especially one who wrote a book titled "Freedom From Thought"

< Message edited by lickenforyou -- 5/9/2011 1:10:59 AM >

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 1:08:58 AM

lickenforyou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

I ain't saying anything yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou
your lack of understanding, and misuse, of words and phrases leads me to believe that I probably am intellectually superior to you. Being male I am probably physically superior to you in strength and speed. You may be superior to me in some ways, I don't know.

You at least are sufficiently intellectually superior to have responded first. But perchance t will demonstrate to have been more intellectually superior by not having responded first. Saffy?

OK, I give up. What does raisim mean?

< Message edited by lickenforyou -- 5/9/2011 1:10:04 AM >

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 1:12:11 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

OK, I give up. What does raisim mean?

Raisim is the plural of "raisin" in Hebrew.

K.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 1:13:07 AM

paulmcuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

In your perception, not in mine. Concepts are continuously reinvented throughout human history. Santa Claus simply is a reinvention of one of the pagan gods of old.

To many people because of their flawed perceptions of the nature of Santa Claus and of the pagan gods Santa Claus is a mumbo-jumbo fairy tale. To me, being quite knowledgeable in mythology and folklore, it is familiar territory. (Of course being Dutch I have more information available to me than other peoples. Ours is called Sinterklaas and our contemporary one was preceded by another one: zwarte Sinterklaas (black Santa Claus), and on the island of Texel there is still Ouwe Sunderklaas (Old Santa Claus). (I have never experienced the Ouwe Sunderklaas party, though, despite being born fairly close near the island.)

The fact that Santa Claus (or Father Christmas, to add to your list) has a long history in folklore does not mean that he exists. Even if part of the folklore is based on someone who probably did indeed exist (Saint Nicholas of Myra), his continued existence is just a tale with which to charm children. You can get metaphysical about it and say that history and belief and imagery combine to give him a kind of pseudo-existence but in the sense of a bearded guy delivering presents to children every year....no.

Of course, the fact that Santa can be a traced to a real person makes him a perfect parallel for Jesus Christ. Again, there is some evidence that there really was a guy named Jesus who was a preacher. Whether he was (or even claimed to be) the son of god may be something that others added to the story.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 1:19:02 AM

lickenforyou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

OK, I give up. What does raisim mean?

Raisim is the plural of "raisin" in Hebrew.

K.

Thanks K, it will come in handy if I want more than one raisin in Israel.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 1:21:20 AM

paulmcuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

You err in supposing that knowledge - i.e. facts - is the issue. It isn't. What always is at issue is the interpretation of the facts. Interpretations are fallible.

What I use? Answer: supergenius. Religious / spiritual people might call it instead Divine inspiration. Of course I do require facts and sometimes extensive knowledge to arrive at a truth. I excel at it. I do not excel in the follow up, i.e. the scientific method.

Sounds to me like you're saying that you also interpret facts, in your own way. As you say, interpretations are fallable and this applies to whatever method is used. For example, in times past, people interpreted thunder to be caused by angry gods. The scientific method does at least attempt - through rigorous study, peer review and continual reevaluation - to reduce fallability. That's why I prefer this to going with what feels right.

This is all getting very fragmented and we're starteing to retread the same ground. Feel free to make your final points on any of the various posts but I think I'll call it a day for this one so won't respond.

< Message edited by paulmcuk -- 5/9/2011 1:22:16 AM >

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 1:42:48 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulmcuk

The fact that Santa Claus (or Father Christmas, to add to your list) has a long history in folklore does not mean that he exists... You can get metaphysical about it and say that history and belief and imagery combine to give him a kind of pseudo-existence but in the sense of a bearded guy delivering presents to children every year....no.

Oh jeez, this again? Map::Territory. Santa Claus represents the spirit of giving. You might just as legitimately argue that there aren't any streets on a street map, that they're just lines on a piece of paper. Fine. You're right. Now go away.

K.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 2:04:54 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

Thanks K, it will come in handy if I want more than one raisin in Israel.

You're welcome.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 3:55:39 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

OK, I give up. What does raisim mean?

Raisim is the plural of "raisin" in Hebrew.

K.

I declare Kirata to be intellectually superior to lickenforyou. (Actually I had not thought of that possibility, but it is more apt than one might suspect.)

It would still be possible for t to do even better, but for lack of an entry I assume that she abstains from proving her intellectual superiority. (Or perhaps she did enter a suggestion but I did not see it because I have her on Hide.)

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 3:56:59 AM

tazzygirl

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OK, I clicked your link. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take the word of some Indian self help huckster. Especially one who wrote a book titled "Freedom From Thought"

Actually, no I wont forgive you. You are dripping with sarcasm, arrogance and the superiority complex I spoke about earlier.

Its just good to see you finally open up to your true self.

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RE: Evolution vs. Religion - 5/9/2011 4:08:16 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

I declare Kirata to be intellectually superior to lickenforyou.

Well I could have told you that even before the "indian huckster" crack. Now while I think that was a really low blow even for lickin, I have to say it's good to see someone show us how they really think.

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